ID for two L027

[matthewfaulkner]

Hi, just wanted to get some opinions on these two L027. Im interested in the potential rivers more than the L/LDA number designation. I dont know anything about their actual catch locations, just my own opinion.

The smaller one, about 8/10.5cm SL/TL







The larger one, about 9.5/12cm SL/TL

[MatsP]

They look to me like the Rio Xingu variety - but I've been known to get this VERY wrong...

--
Mats

[matthewfaulkner]

I agree with the first probably being from the Rio Xingu because you can just about see the remnants of the rusty red in its fin (although not in the photo). Im still uncertain about the second.

[corybrummie2010]

The second L27 could be the Rio Tocantins variety.I am not 100% sure,but let see what the others think.

[Shane]

Not sure I can help beyond telling you that both are southern Amazon tributary forms. The belly pattern pictures above are great and could be useful in the Cat-eLog if good identifications can be attached to the animals.
-Shane

[matthewfaulkner]

Shane, I have quite a few belly shots of my other L027 (Tocantins, Xingu, Tapajos?). I'll post them too along with belly shots.

I also wandered if anything like this could be useful? It shows the progression of a Tapajos(?) in the couple of years Ive had it.

[MatsP]

If the fish is identified to a species entry in the Cat-eLog, I'd be very happy to add a picture like that (but perhaps it would be better with a few less pictures and some indication of "age" (e.g four individual ones).

--
Mats

[Janne]

The first one

Panaque armbrusteri

and the second one

Panaque cf_armbrusteri`araguaia`

which actually are from Teles Pires and not Araguaia which is wrong in the Cat-eLog.

Janne

[Mod edit: alter to current names --Mats]

[matthewfaulkner]

Janne, could you explain why? I wasnt thinking about either of them and would love to know what the features to look for are.

Thats quite a mixup with the two rivers, how come it hasn't been rectified in the Cat-elog? Are any Panaque sp. cf. nigrolineatus found in the Araguaia?

How about the rest of my L027?

1 (same as the one in the 'montage' above)









2













3











4









5

[H.N]

Both fish are Rio Xingu population. They are just variants within that pop.

Hi, just wanted to get some opinions on these two L027. Im interested in the potential rivers more than the L/LDA number designation. I dont know anything about their actual catch locations, just my own opinion.

The smaller one, about 8/10.5cm SL/TL
The larger one, about 9.5/12cm SL/TL

[H.N]

2 is Rio Tocantins pop. and rests are Rio Xingu.

Janne, could you explain why? I wasnt thinking about either of them and would love to know what the features to look for are.

Thats quite a mixup with the two rivers, how come it hasn't been rectified in the Cat-elog? Are any Panaque sp. cf. nigrolineatus found in the Araguaia?

How about the rest of my L027?

1 (same as the one in the 'montage' above)


2

3

4


5

[Janne]

This is the typical colouration for Panaque sp "Tocantins" and of course they occur in Araguaia too, unfortunatly there are not so good pictures in the Cat-eLog.


In the past and still it's quite common among exporters to give a "different" species a new location/name to sell better, that was the case with L27 Panaque sp "Araguaia" because they didn't know the correct location just that it was from "Tapajos" suppliers and they already had one L27 Panaque sp "Tapajos".

Janne