ADVICE PLEASE.. 4ft Coral Malawi Tank.. Catfish Info Needed!

[DaBitFishy]

Hello all,

I am new to this site and dont know a great deal about catfish. I have tried to research them however am finding it all a bit overwhelming with the catfishes.. I am starting a 4ft coral african tank (mainly male peacocks).. I have 4 juvi peps atm and am keen to get more plecos/bristlenose and see if theres any chance of em breeding too. I seem to have a bit of an unusual tank set up due to the coral component. So I have a few things I am not sure about and would love if anyone on here could offer me advice;

1/ I have coral grit substrate & coral in tank - I was going to make some caves out of clay for the peps, disguised in coral grit (on outside only)... would that keep them happy or do i need driftwood (just worried about tannins colouring my water and dont want to be able to see the wood). I think ive read that some have to have the wood to eat.. so not sure if thats the peps?

2/ I was thinking of getting juvi plecs and grow them out (see what sex end up with) as im on a bit of a budget and I seem to have bloody expensive taste... Figure if I get (say the 4 peps) might have a chance of a mixed batch?

3/ What types do you think are available that would ok in my tank. See I want to make it like a reef tank and dont really like the brown ones.. and I see all the unusual ones are up there in $$. I also see some are only small and might get killed in my tank with fish. Can anyone tell me the numbers of some good looking, non-brown ones, available in australia & juvis not worth more than gold that would do ok in my setup? I have looked at the L numbers and.. so many numbers, sizes, similarities, rarities, not sure if avail in aust, & $$!.. its a bit overwhelming to someone thats just starting out!

4/ How many do you think i could have in a 4ft stocked with africans?

5/ Do you think they could have success breeding in the african tank?

5/ Can you mix say two different types (males/females of each) in one tank? Do they cross breed? And do you need a good ratio of m to f like with fish.. say 1m to 4f?

Any other reccomendations or suggestions for me & my setup of africans in a coral tank?

Thanks in advance.. sorry to pester you with so many questions all at once! Im afraid there may be more...

[Richard B]

In short, there are VERY FEW species from the loricariid family that would be suitable for a malawi tank containing lots of coral - the only thing i would recommend is the common bristle nose

Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus

which, if you don't like brown fish, comes in albino or calico varieties. These may breed in the conditions you have.

Most L numbers require relatively specific water conditions which will be different to your set-up, you seem to like two different groups of fishes & want to combine them in one tank which is a bad plan, after all these fishes come from completely different continents in the wild.

[Bas Pels]

The Loricarids come, mostly, form the Amazon region - soft, acidic water. South America is a continent with little calcium, and therefore all water, including these outside the amazon basin, are softer then we would have expected.

And apart from the common BN, almost al Loricarids you can buy are wild - the exceptions are first generations - sensitive, therefore, for wring water.

Malawi has hard, basic (that is, anti-acidic) water. This is as wrong as possible for them, after all, I don't have to explain what hard water is, it just can't be hard and soft at the same time. The same goes for acidic and anti acidic

[MatsP]

I agree with the above comments: Malawi tanks are not at all suitable for plecos, with the small exception of common tank-bred bristlenoses.

Assuming we fix the water to be soft and acidic, I'll try to answer your other questions:

1/ I have coral grit substrate & coral in tank - I was going to make some caves out of clay for the peps, disguised in coral grit (on outside only)... would that keep them happy or do i need driftwood (just worried about tannins colouring my water and dont want to be able to see the wood). I think ive read that some have to have the wood to eat.. so not sure if thats the peps?

Many plecos will chew/rasp on the soft surface of submerged wood if it's available, and I don't see any reason NOT to put wood in a tank intended for plecos.

Panaque

species will live well on ONLY wood, most other species require a bit of other food of some sort. There are plecos that eat just about anything you could possibly imagine (and some you probably don't WANT to imagine -

Acanthicus

live near human habitat, and rumour has it that they eat some stuff that humans chuck in the river... I'll leave you to draw the conclusions...)

[qupte]
2/ I was thinking of getting juvi plecs and grow them out (see what sex end up with) as im on a bit of a budget and I seem to have bloody expensive taste... Figure if I get (say the 4 peps) might have a chance of a mixed batch?
[/quote]

Not sure what a "pep" is? Peppermint bristlenose?

Sure, buying juvenile fish is a good plan. The drawback is that you MAY end up with all being one or the other sex, and then have to try to get some more fish to complement what you have - this is a bigger problem if the fish are really unusual and hard to get hold of - and most plecos are hard to get in Australia...

3/ What types do you think are available that would ok in my tank. See I want to make it like a reef tank and dont really like the brown ones.. and I see all the unusual ones are up there in $$. I also see some are only small and might get killed in my tank with fish. Can anyone tell me the numbers of some good looking, non-brown ones, available in australia & juvis not worth more than gold that would do ok in my setup? I have looked at the L numbers and.. so many numbers, sizes, similarities, rarities, not sure if avail in aust, & $$!.. its a bit overwhelming to someone thats just starting out!

Right, as suggested, you don't really want to mix plecos with Malawi cichlids, and as to what fish YOU want to keep, it is down to your personal choice really - not to mention that you are pretty restricted by what is available.

4/ How many do you think i could have in a 4ft stocked with africans?

How heavily stocked is it? What size is the tank in the other directions? Which pleco?
I have two different size four-foot tanks - one is 320 liter and the other is about 200 liter - that's about 60% more in one than the other, and there are several other shapes for tanks that are 4ft in length.

Some plecos you could keep a few dozen in a 4ft "standard" 55g US tank, and others grow too large to even keep a single in a much larger tank than 4ft.

5/ Do you think they could have success breeding in the african tank?

If you go with regular common bristlenose [or one of the other captive bred sports thereof], then they have been known to breed in an African tank. Most other species would not be happy with the water, and that is a basic condition for breeding the fish.

5/ Can you mix say two different types (males/females of each) in one tank? Do they cross breed? And do you need a good ratio of m to f like with fish.. say 1m to 4f?

If you want a group of 5 fish, then I would suggest two males and three females. A single male may get a bit overwhelmed by having four females vying for his attention. Again, it would vary quite a bit depending on the species as well.

--
Mats

[PeterUK]

Why not DONT keep any ancistrus or 'pleco's 'and keep some synodontis instead ?
Not too sure on the availability of syno's in Oz but there must be some species available.
Like This species

[MatsP]

Why not DONT keep any ancistrus or 'pleco's 'and keep some synodontis instead ?
Not too sure on the availability of syno's in Oz but there must be some species available.
Like This species

I agree completely - Synos from Lake Tanganyika [and L. Malawi] will do well in a Malawi tank. Lake Tanganyika Synos are fairly common in the hobby - don't know about Australia, they have some funny rules on imports there...

--
Mats

[DJ-don]

don't know about Australia, they have some funny rules on imports there...

--
Mats

hey bud

the only pleco found in aus that you can keep in those conditions are the common bn's. i wouldnt think the pepz would last too long in there

you could possibly get the cuckoo catfish

Synodontis multipunctatus

-they are great fish to keep and are found in australia easily. other syno is just the common upside down catfish or the featherfins

Synodontis eupterus

.

try go to http://www.livefish.com.au/index.php?ma ... 20a&page=2
they sell some syno catfish there but not cheap though just scroll down a bit

[MatsP]

S. multipunctata would definitely be the choice for a Rift Valley tank. Whilst S. euptera or S. nigriventris can survive in such conditions, it's not the "right" place to keep them.

--
Mats

[PeterUK]

go to http://www.livefish.com.au/index.php?ma ... 20a&page=2
they sell some syno catfish there but not cheap though just scroll down a bit

Not cheap ! ! ! !

You aint kidding

Look at THIS

[Timberwolf]

I have to agree with the members who are suggest a syno of some sort. I have a hybrid that I rescued form the LFS (some one came by and dropped it off and they didn't want it) and she is the absolute star if my tank. After a long discussion here, we came to the conclusion that at one of her parents was most likely s.euptera. She has that beautiful high dorsal fins and the feather-fin coloring on her caudal and pectoral fins, but a blunt head and fewer and larger spots than a regular euptera. Aside form being an order of magnitude larger than any other fish in the tank, her personality really shines and is similar to what I have seen and read about in the s. euptera.

A small shoal of upside down cats would also be a great addition.

[DJ-don]

go to http://www.livefish.com.au/index.php?ma ... 20a&page=2
they sell some syno catfish there but not cheap though just scroll down a bit

Not cheap ! ! ! !

You aint kidding

Look at THIS

yeah mate you can actually get them cheaper through a lfs!!!!

but some fish in there are actually cheaper than lfs

so in some case the site is very contradictory if thats the word