L134 breeding colony

[apistomaster]

It is time to remove all the fry produced so far this year from my L134 breeding tank so I took a few photos of the colony first. Here are some of the fry and adults. I only focused on the most crowded area; there were many other fry elsewhere in the tank. The fry almost look like bumble bees with their youthful color pattern. I wanted to capture these views before I moved them to a grow out tank to make room for their next broods. Some of these fry are from matings between my oldest F1 females and my original wild males. I can only tell which when they first emerge because the young females have been producing only about 15 fry per spawn as opposed to 25 to 30 I usually get from the older wild females.
I still have some much older specimens, 8-10 months old, 2 to 2-1/2 inches available.

[Lihn]

Great sight, it looks really good!
How big is the aquarium they live in?
What is the distribution of sex?

[apistomaster]

I breed them in a 20 gallon long, 12 X 12 X 30 inches.
My original breeding group was 2 males and 3 females, all wild fish but I accidentally lost one of my females which was hiding in a piece of wood I removed last winter. I only noticed way too late when she was found all dried up. I estimate my wild fish are at least 6 years old and this is their 3rd breeding season in my tank. I added 4 of my oldest F1 females and some have spawned for their first time this year.
I caught all these fry after taking the photos and there were about 85 of them. I had to acclimate the fish from soft water to my tap water so I could safely move these fry to a grow out tank but that also means I will begin making replacement RO water changes which will stimulate new spawns. I keep mine in tap water except during the breeding season. It has a pH 7.4, 340 ppm. I breed them in soft water with a pH of about 6.0 and 40 ppm TDS.
My L134 have always begun breeding within 2 weeks of March 1st and stop spawning around September 1st.
I plan to set up a colony of all F1 fish this year but I don't expect them to spawn until next Spring. It will be a larger colony. Probably 4 males and 10 females will be set up in a 40 gal breeder tank, 36 X 18 X 16 High inches.

[andywoolloo]

beautiful.

[Lihn]

I breed them in a 20 gallon long, 12 X 12 X 30 inches.
My original breeding group was 2 males and 3 females, all wild fish but I accidentally lost one of my females which was hiding in a piece of wood I removed last winter. I only noticed way too late when she was found all dried up. I estimate my wild fish are at least 6 years old and this is their 3rd breeding season in my tank. I added 4 of my oldest F1 females and some have spawned for their first time this year.
I caught all these fry after taking the photos and there were about 85 of them. I had to acclimate the fish from soft water to my tap water so I could safely move these fry to a grow out tank but that also means I will begin making replacement RO water changes which will stimulate new spawns. I keep mine in tap water except during the breeding season. It has a pH 7.4, 340 ppm. I breed them in soft water with a pH of about 6.0 and 40 ppm TDS.
My L134 have always begun breeding within 2 weeks of March 1st and stop spawning around September 1st.
I plan to set up a colony of all F1 fish this year but I don't expect them to spawn until next Spring. It will be a larger colony. Probably 4 males and 10 females will be set up in a 40 gal breeder tank, 36 X 18 X 16 High inches.

Thanks a lot
What is the temperature in the tank?

I do also have some WF L134. My group is of 5 males and 2 females. Unfortunately not so evenly divided. I have them in a 20 gallon tank as yours (not too big for the fishes, I know), but it is what I have of space right now.
If I remove a couple of males, how many do you think would be ideal?

[andy75]

Very nice, wish i lived near you so i could buy some


Andy

[apistomaster]

I keep them at 84*F.
About that group with so many males, I think I would reduce the number down to two pairs. At least that way it would be possible to have each pair spawning at about the same time. They won't be bonded pairs like Cichlids form but would spawn opportunistically.

[corybrummie2010]

Awesome,beautiful looking group of L134

[YSR50]

very nice.

If I'm reading correctly you have 8 breeding size adults in a 20L? I have 10 breeding size adults plus some juvies/fry that I need to grab in a 55g. My guys were on the same schedule as yours as far as breeding. This year I had a few 50+ batches before my heater went bad. Temps got up close to 87 by the time I got home and they haven't bred since. Hoping they start back up soon.

[apistomaster]

There are parts of our summers when the temperatures run between 105*F and 117*F for 2 or 3 weeks. My L134 tank temps frequently hover around 88 to 90*F during those periods but it has little effect on their breeding schedules.
I am using a lot of aeration from an air stone, air lift sponge filter and a 160 gph power head so that helps keep the dissolved O2 levels close to the temperature related saturation point at all times which is a factor I consider to be important.
I rather think this species is remarkably adaptable to endure such high temperatures and still continue to spawn.

My high summer time temperatures are what determines which fish I can keep and breed. The L134 and some of the Hypancistrus species handle the highs and the rest of my focus is primarily the keeping and breeding of wild Discus. I have not been as successful at breeding my wild Discus as I was when I first began but I also used to have more energy to spare to keep up with more intensive care of their water quality. I did have many of my wild Discus spawn during our summer time peak temps in the past when the water hovered around 90*F but I normally try to keep them between 84 and 86*F. When I first became involved with Discus I still lived in Eastern WA.
I used to be heavily involved with breeding killiefish but since moving back to hot Eastern WA state my Killiefish have not been able to thrive at such high temperatures. I have raised around 150 different species of killies over the years but I began keeping them circa 1967 so I have had plenty of time to work my way through so many species. I had much more success with them while I still lived in the much more moderate climate of Seattle.
I had the somewhat unique good fortune to have supportive parents who helped me open a fish shop and build a large enough building to have almost 100 aquariums in the back room of the building where I carried out my breeding projects as well as quarantining the shipments of fish I bought in box lots for the retail portion of the business while i was still only a teenager. My involvement in keeping and breeding tropical fish goes back a long time. I learned a lot very early and first began breeding wild Discus by the time I was only 17 in 1969. My involvement with the small plecos species only began in the spring of 2006. They were one of the few groups of fish I hadn't really worked with much until rather recently.

[YSR50]

I wouldn't think that 87 degrees for 10-12 hours would have made a difference either, but that's the only thing that changed when they stopped.

I agree with your aeration comment. I have 2 powerheads (AquaClear 70 and 50), 2 sponge filters, an Emperor 400 and a Rena 400 Air Pump running in my breeder tank.

[apistomaster]

Even during what I call the L134 breeding season my fish must take the occasional break from spawning. I am sure the little temperature spike your fish had I doubt that figures into why your fish are taking a break. When this happens I resume using tap water, begin feeding frozen blood worms more frequently, then after 3 or 4 weeks, make a massive (70%) water change. I use straight RO water to refill their tank and continue keeping them in very soft water and they always soon resume spawning again.

I have had such good production in their 20 long that I haven't messed with what's been working well for me for 3 seasons. I wouldn't change your set up at all other than manipulate the water some. I think after the males have raised 4 broods in quick succession they just need to take a break and take more time to regain their energy because as far as I have been able to observe, the brooding males don't do much feeding.
My own breeding group also happens to be in between broods presently. I expect that to change fairly soon.

I have more fish in the tank than I have in the past because I added the 4 F1 females not expecting them all to breed but I did want to be sure that at least some would spawn this young. That did happen but maybe only a couple of the new, young females actually have participated in this seasons spawned based on the number of small vs normal sized broods which have been produced so far. None of the adults harm the fry so a few spare adult fish hasn't caused any problems. I mainly compensated for the higher population density by increased water changes.