Help - L066 and Ancistrus deaths

[tickie]

Hi,

I have a mixed 4' tank that did contain 3 x adult L066, a breeding group of 4 x ancistrus (3f 1m), 2 x whiptails (sp. unknown, about 4-5" long), 1 x Pelvicachromis subocellatus and about 10 endler's livebearers.

Last week I purchased 4 x corydoras sterbae (sterbai) from the same dealer I have used for many years. All was fine. On Monday I noticed the L066 looking a bit thin, so I fed them 3 cubes of frozen adult brine shrimp. This was from a pack that had been in the freezer for over a year, as I had bought in bulk a while back. Between then and now, I have lost all my ancistrus, and 2 of the L066.

Symptoms for L066: Rapid breathing, lethargic, not 'sucking' onto anything (previously they'd hang off the glass or on rocks by a filter), rapid deterioration from this point, until they just lay on the sand/rocks and died.

Symptoms for Ancistrus: very ragged fins, as if they'd been fighting (though no signs of it), bloated appearance (females were all full of eggs), just before they died they would spin around.

No other fish in the tank where affected, I have 0 day old baby endler's swimming around, the cories are feeding well. Although the symptoms of death are different, they must be related. As soon as the first Ancistrus died, I immediately did a 30% water change, though water parameters were fine.

Any ideas what it could be? My thoughts are that they were poisoned somehow, either by brine shrimp or the salt that may have been in it? However, I have fed it in the past with no problems. Could it be the cories introduced some plec affecting parasite?

PLEASE HELP, I DON'T WANT TO LOSE ANYMORE. I have kept tropicals for 10 years and never seen anything like this or act this fast.

Thanks.

[MatsP]

The fact that they looked thin origiinally indicates something is wrong with the fish from longer back than "yesterday" or "a couple of days ago". This can be many things. A starting point would be to have your nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, pH, GH and KH values for your tank.

It is likely, based on the description you give of bloated belly and rapid deteriorating health, that the cause of death is internal bacterial infection (septocemia or closely related illness), but this is generally a consequence of something else being wrong in the tank.

Ancistrus can be sensitive to too much protein in the diet, but that should not be a problem for Hypancistrus species such as L066.

It's possible that your food was bad (it happens that food is defrosted - and of course, if it's a bunch of packs that have been stacked in a "too warm freezer" or in a transport box/bag, maybe only one or two packs defrost)

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Mats

[Linus_Cello]

If there were parasites, did you see any off-color (white) feces from the plecs?
Most of the sterba cories I've seen in my area (Washington DC) were locally raised (mine in fact just breed for me, and I don't do anything special; I should put them in their own tank to see if I can get any young that don't get eaten); if that's the case in UK, I would doubt it was parasites.
When you say the water paramters are fine, what are they? What's the pH, ammonia, etc. (oh, I see that Matt just commented on that)
Supposedly here in certain parts of the USA (Washington DC area), in the spring the water companies will switch from chlorine to chloramine to help flush out the pipes from the winter. The change in chemicals can cause havoc with the water conditioners/decholrinators, so "crashing" the water (letting the chlorine gas off over 24 hours) is supposedly a better way to condition the water. Could this be factor in the UK?

[MatsP]

If there were parasites, did you see any off-color (white) feces from the plecs?
Most of the sterba cories I've seen in my area (Washington DC) were locally raised (mine in fact just breed for me, and I don't do anything special; I should put them in their own tank to see if I can get any young that don't get eaten); if that's the case in UK, I would doubt it was parasites.

If we are talking about internal parasites that make the fish "thin", then I'd say a week is far from enough to make this happen. It may well be parasites as the cause of the fish being thin - or simply not enough food.

Supposedly here in certain parts of the USA (Washington DC area), in the spring the water companies will switch from chlorine to chloramine to help flush out the pipes from the winter.

It's probably not for that reason [1], but yes, I expect that some water companies switch between chloramine and chlorine.

The change in chemicals can cause havoc with the water conditioners/decholrinators, so "crashing" the water (letting the chlorine gas off over 24 hours) is supposedly a better way to condition the water. Could this be factor in the UK?

Using an appropriate dechlorinator that is intended for both chlorine and chloramine should be perfectly adequate. Of course, some decholorinators do not cope with chloramine.

[1] I'm fairly sure the change from chlorine to chloramine is the fact that the water will be warmer as summer comes on -> faster dissipation of chlorine -> less effective as a sterilizer. Chloramine stays in the water for much longer, regardless of temperature - but it also costs a little bit more, so the water company will use just chlorine if they can get away with it. Also bacteria will grow better in warmer water -> more need to use more sterilization product. Chloramine is "stronger" than chlorine too. As the water company don't want to be sued for "food poisioning from the water", then need to make sure it's got very little bacteria.

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Mats