PlanetCatfish.com

Hello everyone,

Yesterday, I discovered my first BN spawn. Although I've bred Africans, angels, livebearers, shrimp, etc., I've never bred any cat/pleco/etc., so this is pretty exciting. I DO have a question, though. (Well... maybe a COUPLE of questions.)

Even though I read the "Read This Before Posting" rule, that told me to include information regarding my water parameters and such -- (if I was writing about plecos that have spawned, which I am) -- I'm not planning to list all of that information, because I'm not asking that type of question.

In quite a few places on the web, I have read that BBS should be provided, shortly after the baby BN use up their yolk sacs. Although I am new at this species, I have serious doubts about doing that, and this is why:

If you look at this forum, (just a few postings back), I'm the same aquarist who apparently killed some of his juvenile BN, by allowing them to eat too many high-protein foods. DOAH!! I've been told that due to the Bristlenose' "herbivorian digestive tract", these types of foods lead to big problems, with DEATH being one of them. I understand that BBS have a certain amount of beneficial fatty acids in them, but aside from that, they seem to me to be a lot more of a "protein food", with absolutely NO veggie content, and I *think* no/negligible fiber content.

So I'm hesitant to use that food, unless one of you experts advises me otherwise.

On the topic of food, if you'd be willing to weigh in on these points, I also have these things on my mind:

1) I have read that we can culture algae on rocks, and then put those rocks into the BN nursery tank. I have rocks, presently, in a small tank, in a window. They have biofilm and the start of algae on them. Does this method really work? Can the fry get UP ONTO the rocks, when they are still small? Do BN fry eat biofilm? If they do, is it beneficial, or harmful to them?

2) I have read that "blanched lettuce" is a good first meal. After having raised the other fish that I've raised, I'm having a bit of trouble imagining a BN fry, one day past the expiration of his yolk sac, being able to get a "mouthful" of food, from blanched lettuce. Does THIS method really work? If so, should I blanch the lettuce quickly? Should I cook it until it is limp? Are BN fry considerably bigger than many other fry?

3) Does anyone ever do anything like this: Take Angels Plus Algae Wafers, grind them up in a coffee mill, put some of the powder in a glass with water, shake it like crazy, then use a tippet/eyedropper, to transfer some of that food to the area where the BN fry are?

4) Finally -- Is there any value in doing a "sponge filter squeeze", when the BN fry are quite young? Would they eat the tiny critters? If so, are these critters good for the BN, or are we back at the "high protein" problem? If they are good for the BN, should this method be repeated, and until what age?

Thank you, everyone, for reading, and for any responses. The eggs were deposited on March 3rd, as far as I can tell. This should be interesting. Have a great day.

I have good success simply raising bristlenose fry off of sliced, unblanched zuchinni. However, I will also note that I do allow them to develop in the nest with their father and let them leave on their own accord; when they leave, they are fully formed and quite able to feed on vegetables. Bristlenose pleco fry do not have a "larval" state, they basically change straight from embryos with a yolk sac to juvenile miniatures of their parents.

1. This is a great way to create food for algae eating fry, yes. You'd be surprised how well these little fish can "climb" if they feel like. At night, they will be ALL over your tank - every surface available. I have some that I suspect have swam up the outlet of the centralized pump system, and come out in another tank - they are certainly too large to get through my strainer, and don't see them jumping from the top right tank to the one row below and to the left... ;)

2. If I can be bothered (that is, the fish are not "common" bristlenoses, which I already have far too many of), I give them blanched courgette/zucchini. If I can't be bothered, I just give them JBL Novo Pleco XL. They seem to do OK on that too, judging by the fact that I deliver to the LFS's around here a bag about a dozen or so every month for the last several months, and I haven't run out yet. In fact, to make room for my planned new purchases this weekend, I need to free up a 4ft tank with a dozen larger ones, so if anyone wants a couple, let me know... Free of charge, pick'em up only.

3. Not ever done that, no. [Well, not for bristlenoses at least - I have used a similar method feeding more valuable fry of Corydoras, etc].

4. It's not a bad thing, but not essential either, I'd say.

--
Mats

Suckermouth wrote:I have good success simply raising bristlenose fry off of sliced, unblanched zuchinni. However, I will also note that I do allow them to develop in the nest with their father and let them leave on their own accord; when they leave, they are fully formed and quite able to feed on vegetables. Bristlenose pl*co fry do not have a "larval" state, they basically change straight from embryos with a yolk sac to juvenile miniatures of their parents.

Hi Suckermouth,
Thanks! Would you please give a bit of clarification for me?

1) How thinly do you slice your zucchini? Do you think it matters?

2) Do you just lay it on the bottom, near the cave opening?

3) How often do you replace it?

Thanks, again. I appreciate it.
Aquafinatic

MatsP wrote:... You'd be surprised how well these little fish can "climb" if they feel like. At night, they will be ALL over your tank - every surface available. I have some that I suspect have swam up the outlet of the centralized pump system, and come out in another tank...

... If I can't be bothered, I just give them JBL Novo Pleco XL. They seem to do OK on that too, judging by the fact that I deliver to the LFS's around here a bag about a dozen or so every month for the last several months, and I haven't run out yet... Mats

Hi Mats. Thank you for the help -- very much appreciated. Would you please tell me, regarding your quote, above:

1) Are you talking about BN fry that are just past the "yolk sac" stage, moving all over your tanks like that? They sure sound "strong"!

2) You are now the fourth person who has told me about JBL Novo food. I have searched the web for it, twice now, and as far as I can tell, it is not available in the U.S. Do you know if there are any people around here, who believe they've found the best algae wafer, for BN, that IS availalble in the U.S.???

Be well!

1. I do not think the thickness matters. What matters more is the available space for fry to eat on. That is, you can give the fry more space to eat by cutting a single zuchinni into more slices. When I used to separate the fry for raising, I would cut thin slices, but now that I leave them in the main tank I just put more zuchinni in.

2. Near the cave opening should work, yes. IME, they find food just fine in a 55 gallon and will swim all over the tank walls, so they will explore for food. However, they might experience faster growth if you had a dedicated aquarium to raise them in. I think the juveniles are more apt to come out and eat during the day when there's no one else around and in a smaller space, vs. a larger space in the main tank.

3. I usually put enough in to last a full 24 hours at least, but I am also feeding the adults bn's and other plecs.

Just to make it clear: When they are still having the yolk-sac, then:
1. They do not need food.
2. They should be in dad's cave.

--
Mats

I think that you are worrying waayyyyyyyyy too much

I have about 60 juv 1.5in BN's at the moment. From day one (when I noticed a few stuck on the glass) I have basically ignored them.
They got no special treatment at all apart from the first few weeks when all I did different was repeatedly score the skin of the half zucchini with sharp knife so that they had a place to start munching.
Now they are larger I slice a whole zucchini lengthwise so there is a larger feeding area and if I remember they get a sprinkle of tetra prime and/or a few alae wafers once a week, I also throw in a few large floating cichlid pellets just to watch them swimming upside down frantically trying to latch on to them

Ps. I have them in a 36in x 12in x 15in bare bottomed tank with 1 large piece of bogwood, a few teracotta flower pots.
Filtration is 2 sponge filters. I change 50% of the water every other day... you wouldnt believe how much they poop

Aquafinatic, I have my first batch of BN fry and am worrying too much as well. I can't help it, it's taken forever for me to find a female and finally get a spawn. I found my eggs unattended on the bottom of the tank, so I put them in a net with an airstone and hatched them that way.

I've been feeding mine a variety of veggies, and have had minimal losses. They seem to be doing well and are growing nicely so far. The foods I'm using are canned french style(no-salt) green beans, which they are crazy about, canned (no-salt) peas -- I cut these in half or squish them a little to break the skin open, very thinly sliced raw carrot, sliced raw zucchini and cucumber with seeds removed, and once in a while I drop in a few NLS 1mm pellets. They also love the little piece of driftwood I have with them.

This is what they looked like on the 23rd of Jan. Click pics for full size.


On the 28th.


Feb. 1 - Slice of zucchini


Feb. 22 - peas


Since this is my first time, I'm not confident that I'm doing it right! I have offered them bbs a few times, but couldn't tell if they were eating it or not.

Thanks, Suckermouth and Mats.
Much appreciated!

PeterUK wrote:I think that you are worrying waayyyyyyyyy too much

I have about 60 juv 1.5in BN's at the moment. From day one (when I noticed a few stuck on the glass) I have basically ignored them. They got no special treatment at all apart from the first few weeks......

...... you wouldnt believe how much they poop

Hi PeterUK. I appreciate the help, and apparently I HAVE been worrying way too much.

I *think* this is why. I've been breeding various freshwater angels, and some other critters lately. With some of these things, I make ONE WRONG MOVE, and there trouble. Fish die -- or at least, there are "stunting" problems, or some other bad thing happens. Sooooo -- not having ever even SEEN BN fry, I guess I assumed that they were going to be as touchy as some of these other fish. But from what I glean from the posts around here, these things must be practically "bulletproof"!

So I shall worry no more. I have a lot of very practical ideas now, from all of you, and I now believe that this will be a piece of cake, so long as I keep the water quality where it should be.

Oh yeah -- about the poop.... now that you mention it, I was quite "impressed" with the amount that I vacuumed from the parent's tank the last two days! Aye Carumba!
Have a great day!

Aura wrote:Aquafinatic, I have my first batch of BN fry and am worrying too much as well. I can't help it, it's taken forever for me to find a female and finally get a spawn. I found my eggs unattended on the bottom of the tank, so I put them in a net with an airstone and hatched them that way.

The foods I'm using are canned french style(no-salt) green beans, which they are crazy about, canned (no-salt) peas -- I cut these in half or squish them a little to break the skin open, very thinly sliced raw carrot, sliced raw zucchini and cucumber with seeds removed, and once in a while I drop in a few NLS 1mm pellets.....

......I have offered them bbs a few times, but couldn't tell if they were eating it or not.

Hi Aura. Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. A few comments:

I was just thinking about your search for a female. Here is what happened to me: I was waiting IMPATIENTLY for (4) nice-quality juvies to grow up, so hopefully I could get a nice pair. That's when I was allowing them to have a high-protein diet, (they were eating the food intended for some corys), so I lost two of them. I moved the remaining (2) to another tank.

So then I was REALLY impatient, plus I knew that my chances of getting a pair had just gone down, considerably. That's when "fate" stepped in. Some fairly "big" BN breeder, in my area, decided to get rid of his BN. He brought a large number of mature BN to the LFS that I frequent. I happened to stop in there shortly after, and was able to buy the best male and
female that he had brought. Since I then really had something "valuable", I was extra concerned about their diet, so that's when I started to use zucchini, broccoli, and steamed green beans. After eating apparently nothing for several days, they started to eat the veggies, and I was able to relax. So I was fortunate to find these guys, and as you know, they've spawned already, just about (3) weeks after my purchase.

I tried those canned veggies, just as you described. My fish didn't eat them, but now I know that they probably would, if I would persist with them. But have you found that those canned peas and green beans foul your water quickly? That seemed to happen in my tank, plus another P.C. member wrote a p.m. to me, and told me that he had the same problems with water quality.

Final question: With those veggies that you mentioned -- are you removing any UNEATEN portions at some later time? Again -- I'm wondering about the water quality, because these veggies seem to cloud my water quite a bit, regardless of HOW I use them.

Be well!

It sounds like you really lucked out, showing up at the lfs soon after the BNs were dropped off. My story is too long (and miserable) to go into detail, but it spans 3+ years and nine males!

About the canned veggies and water quality -- I'm only feeding those to the fry, so I'm using small amounts that they consume almost all of in a few hours. I feed them twice a day, just enough that they have finished most of it before the next feeding. At that time, I remove the skin from the peas and little strands of green beans that they didn't finish, and lots of poop. With the fresh vegetables, I toss anything that's leftover the next day. The pieces of carrot hold up well and I just leave those in for a few days.

I have mine in a breeder net for now, so that makes it easy to limit the food and keep things cleaned up. I use a turkey baster to remove the debris and do water changes on the tank every other day. I can imagine that the peas would make a pretty big mess if there were more than a few of them in the tank!

Aura wrote:......My story is too long (and miserable) to go into detail, but it spans 3+ years and nine males!

Hey Aura,
For a minute there, I thought you were talking about Liz Taylor!

Thanks for the ideas. I can sure see how it would be easier to keep a clean house, with the breeder net. I think I'm going to try using a bare-bottom tank, then do a quick mini-vaccuum job each day, to remove the veggie scraps. Blessings!

Ancistrus cirhossus do not need brine shrimp nauplii but if you keep them with some fry which do require them they will help clean up the left over dead shrimp.
I feed the only earth worm and Spirulina Sticks and that makes things simple and excellent growth results.

apistomaster wrote:Ancistrus cirhossus do not need brine shrimp nauplii but if you keep them with some fry which do require them they will help clean up the left over dead shrimp.
I feed the only earth worm and Spirulina Sticks and that makes things simple and excellent growth results.

Hi! Cool idea. I do generally have some kind of fry around the fish room, so I should be able to try this out.

I'm *interested* in these feeding plans that some of you folks talk about, that are "simple", as you said. But I've also been warned about the "too much protein for BN" problem/argument/theory, and it *seems* that some of my BN may have perished in the past, due to that reason.

Do you have a favorite Spirulina Stick, that you'd care to tell me about?
Blessings!

For some of you perhaps a silly question, but what on earth are B.B.S.?

I have raised 3 generations of Ancistrus, but always on algae, growing in their tank. I did not even bother about feeding veggies. So whatever B.B.S. is/are, I don't think you would need them

Bas Pels wrote:For some of you perhaps a silly question, but what on earth are B.B.S.?

I have raised 3 generations of Ancistrus, but always on algae, growing in their tank. I did not even bother about feeding veggies. So whatever B.B.S. is/are, I don't think you would need them

He means baby brine shrimp aka brine shrimp nauplii.

Yes I do have a favorite supplier of Spirulina and Earth worm sticks. It is http://www.aquiaticeco.com
I prefer buying from them because they are a full line aquaculture suplies house and they carry most good brands of aquarium hobbyist supplies. They have many unique products which come in handy around a fish room like really good microscopes at reasonable prices and so on. I could use them as my sole source of every thing I use but I shop around for the best sales on heaters etc.

http://www.kensfish.com sells both these sticks and his prices are a bit lower but I don't use most of what he stocks.
If food is all you want then kensfish is probably better savings-wise.

These foods have proven to be ideal for raising all the species of plecos I keep or breed.
Bushy Nose could be fed nothing but earth worm sticks and still do great but the fact is that these companies sell 3 stick foods in bulk and each has the same ingredients but one ingredient predominates so they are a pretty well balanced staple food. The 3rd stick food is brine shrimp sticks but I have never even bought a pound to try out.
If you fed Bushy noses one of the 2 foods every other feeding you would be providing them a balanced diet.
The sticks last for hours which allows catfish to graze on them almost continuously if feed twice a day.
I favor earth worm stick for the more carnivorous plecos like Hypancistrus and Peckoltia but they also like some Spirulina sticks once in awhile.
These foods soften soon after becoming soaked which then makes the very easy for small pleco fry to suck up. Larger specimens can eat whole pellets before the become saturated. No problems will arise from feeding these high protein foods to your bushy nose fry or adults.
I am not sure how that belief began. When people lose fish for some reason they often grasp for straws to explain it.
These foods are also fed to my wild Discus and domestic discus while I was raising those. Many Apistogramma like earth worm sticks although 1 small stick is enough to feed a pair of them one time. They are simply versatile foods, well researched and documented for their benefits as an expensive breeder conditioning food raised in commercial aquaculture. Commercial food fish and Koi are feed lessor quality foods during grow out or just every day maintenance. Tropical fish, at least the smaller species generally have higher protein dietary requirements. What are expensive aquaculture conditioning foods are actually bargain high quality tropical fish foods. No fancy packaging and advertising costs make them cheaper than popular name brand foods.
Like Microsoft has a fetish for trying to keep a clean computer desk top I am driven to find the cheapest, easiest ways to keep and breed fish; I do every thing I can to avoid doing anything more than is absolutely necessary to achieve my desired results.

Like Microsoft has a fetish for trying to keep a clean computer desk top I am driven to find the cheapest, easiest ways to keep and breed fish; I do every thing I can to avoid doing anything more than is absolutely necessary to achieve my desired results.

I like your train of thought there ....

Some people just cant resist going the whole hog and love to complicate things and others do the minimum to to get the desired results to get the job done.

I believe in the old saying .. K I S S (keep it simple stupid)

Re ... Cloudy water, this has happened once when I put in a whole sliced courgette and a handful of garden peas.
Dont ask me why, it seemed a good idea at the time.
Now they get one or the other not both together.
The sliced half of courgette lasts about a day and a half in my tank and I generally feed them every other day now they are about 1.5in.

Dont fuss so much

Hey apistomaster!

Thanks for the ideas. I appreciate it. In fact, this:

http://www.aquaticeco.com/

will come in handy. I can really make use of a place, where I can browse
their offerings, and find some unique and/or difficult-to-find items --- which
always seem to come in handy, in the fishroom.

Hmmm... seems I need to buy some fish food sticks. Now where did I put that
Aquarium Budget Cash?

PeterUK wrote:

Dont fuss so much

Hey! Go EASY on me.
I QUIT FUSSING ABOUT 3 POSTS AGO!

So, now the real question... How many of you have been thinking about planting zucchini in the garden just to feed your bristle nose fry?

Jeff

You better acquire a few buckets, fill them with tank water (the left over water after a waterchange) and put some stones in them. Not too smooth, white ones have proven te work best for me

After a few weeks you get a lot of green algae - the best food in the world for them

Courgette, or zucchini, is at best a replacement for algae. Why settle for second best?

Bas Pels wrote:You better acquire a few buckets, fill them with tank water (the left over water after a waterchange) and put some stones in them. Not too smooth, white ones have proven te work best for me

After a few weeks you get a lot of green algae - the best food in the world for them......

Hi Bas Pels,

I like this idea, and a couple of weeks ago, I DID set up one 2.5 gallon aquarium, in a sunny window, with "used" water and stones. But I chose very SMOOTH, DARK ones.

I guess I'll quickly set up a second "algae farm", and use rough, white stones in that one. Then I can see how they compare to one another. Cheers!