I'm currently considering what fish to purchase as a host fish for my synos. They're positively dying to spawn with the tropheus that they're currently housed with, and I'd really rather they didn't, sooo....
To date, the suggested fish are a peacock colony, an S. fryeri colony, or Fossorochromis rostratus. I was hoping to be able to get away with a male and 5 or 6 females in a 55 gallon. I'd like to be able to find the fish at a pretty good size, so that's limiting my choices a bit. I thought I'd go ahead and post here, and see what kind of suggestions and experience people have had with different hosts.
Aulonocara and Sciaenochromis are suitable; Fossochromis is a bit on the big size, but it'll work. I've seen Labeotropheus trevawasae even, and Labidochromis caeruleus too, spitting baby Syno's.
One of the best hosts available is Placidochromis electra, another great one is P phenochilus, a beautiful marine-blue cichlid.
Another one that breeds very easily is Otopharynx lithobates.
These three species are very peaceful, and thougher than Aulonocara, so they can handle both Syno's and perhaps stripping better than Aulonocara or Sciaenochromis-females (unlike the sturdy "ahli"males, IME the females can be quite fragile; not a fish to handle often)
Some people use Victorians, like Pundamilia neyererei or Astatotilapia burtoni (wich is native to both Victoria and Tanganyika).
The main drawback to using Vics, is you MUST strip them or lose both mother and baby catfish! This because most available Vics have small females.....
The adult female's too small to carry Syno-fry full term, and once the fry developes spines, she cannot get rid of them anymore....I'm sure you get the picture
I've heard that -in captivity!!- most, if not all, Tanganyikans are too aware of Wily E Syno to breed with them! And I've definitely experienced huge aggression of several Tangs against ANY Tang Syno.
The Tangies that could be used should be big Featherfins (Ophtalmotilapia nasuta or Cyathopharynx furcifer or C foai) or Ctenochromis horei.
I've got a video of C horei with baby syno's in the mouth; you can see the tiny catfishes swallowing the baby Cteno's, beginning at the yolksac....gruesome! It's material from National Geographic's "Lake Tanganyika: Jewel of the Rift". Fascinating watch, a must for any Tang-fan; cichlids or catfish.
I'm definitely not into stripping fish, but if you like a high number of baby Syno's; stripping is the way to go. This of course, because once the cichlid-eggs or -fry are eaten, the Syno's start eating their own siblings. If you don't strip only a few -often only one- will emerge.
I'm not a good Syno-breeder, mind! I'm in this hobby just for the heck of it, so I just bred single babies....letting them spit at their own, never used Vics either.
Same for petricola's; I just let them calvus do their stupid thing, raising petricola babies in ones, twos and threes, slowly building up new groups.
If you go by numbers; strip three or four days after spawning! you even get a fair number of baby cichlids still, this way. And drown those syno-babies in live fresh-hatched artemia......
Plan B should not automatically be twice as much explosives as Plan A
The best (most prolific) host I have used to spawn Synodontis multipunctatus with were Haplochromines from Lake Victoria. Particularly those that spawn out in the open and not under an overhanging rock or cave. Usually Hap. sp. "Fire Hap"
I had far and away the best luck with this species out of a dozen or so friend's and I have tried. The nests for these fish are aways on top of an elevated perch. An inverted flower pot saucer with openings cut in the side were ideal. Perfect for the cats to swarm around and raid from all directions. Strip eggs 3 days after spawning for the most offspring. The cats would have just hatched at 80 F.
Good luck spawning them,
Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley
I agree with using Victorian haps, they are very prolific, easy to sex and easy to condition. Right now I am using a large group (40 or so) of Hap obliquidens (true) with a group of 6 adult S. multi. When I notice the female multis growing thin I condition them in another tank for about a month and then put them back into the 150 gallon. They fill with eggs quickly.
I have no problem stripping the female haps and have never lost one because of this.
I usually get 1-2 spawns containing S. multi fry every two weeks but stripped 4 last night and got over 40 fry so you never know.
The reason for stripping the female early is because the fry will eat basically anything they can get their mouth on and they do not wait until all the hap eggs are gone before eating each other. The biggest batch I stripped last night was 14 fry, over 20 hap eggs and 2 multi. heads left from a meal. I have left female haps with fry for 2 weeks before with no ill effects but you usually end up with 1 or 2 very large S. multi fry. If you strip within the first week you will get a good number of S. multi fry that are easy to raise.
Also I read somewhere, I don't remember where, that a dead T. duboisi was found in the wild with a large S. multi fry stuck in her mouth, she had been unable to spit it out and starved to death. Good luck. Ted
Thank you guys I was actually not sure if I'd misunderstood all I read about using "haps". I assumed that victorian haps were meant, but then when it was suggested I use malawi deep water haps, I figured I better get in and do some more research. This clears it up nicely. I'll get in and order some nyererei in the next few weeks.
I remember reading that you had done exactly that Dinyar, but I didn't remember any of the details of it. Did you use the marbles in a cave with an uplift technique? How did you get them to spawn? All the info I can get would be appreciated. I don't currently HAVE hosts that I want to use, and I do have 2 females that are chock full of eggs, so I'm game to try any good suggestions I have a 55 gallon tank setting empty that I could set up specifically for them.
Barbie wrote:I remember reading that you had done exactly that Dinyar, but I didn't remember any of the details of it. Did you use the marbles in a cave with an uplift technique? How did you get them to spawn? All the info I can get would be appreciated. I don't currently HAVE hosts that I want to use, and I do have 2 females that are chock full of eggs, so I'm game to try any good suggestions I have a 55 gallon tank setting empty that I could set up specifically for them.
Barbie
I didn't get them to spawn; the fish did it by themselves. One day I was cleaning the tank and from the corner of an eye saw a fry flitting across; I looked harder and saw more fry. They must have been several weeks old by the time. Most surprising of all was that it was a small 30 gal tank grossly overcrowded with various Tanganyika Synodontis (and nothing else). The only thing I can think of that might have triggered the spawning was heavy feeding with live blackworms, plus large, regular water changes.
Rusty and I have spawned a number of fish, mostly catfish, and with a few exceptions, it "just happened".
Here is a passage from the <Dao De Jing> of Lao Zi: "You xi, qi gui yan. Gong cheng, shi sui, bai xing jie wei: 'wo zi ran.'" And here's my translation: "Take it easy. Don't give commands. And when the job is done, the mission accomplished, the people [read: fish] will say "we did it ourselves!"
I'm REALLY not worried about taking credit for managing the act, but I'd certainly like to get fry out of the little buggers Without your consumate care and expertise, the fish wouldn't have taken the opportunity to produce fry Dinyar, that's all I was saying, admittedly with hopes of the conversation giving me pointers to reproduce the occurence
If you guys don't mind taking some suggestion from a cichlid guy, I have some input into the topic Basically you are looking for a cichlid that won't be intimidated by the catfish being close to them while they spawn. Victorians are great for this because they are very strong minded, and will do what they want, when they want. P.nyereri are a good choice because they will get to an adult size of around 5", and are very attractive as well. I had some F.rostratus that I was growing for this very same task, but ended up having to get rid of them due to aggression problems, so was never able to determine if they were good candidates. Ctenochromis horei from tanganyika is another good choice due to their belicose nature and decent adult size. Just my 2 cents.
Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.
Are you aware of any reports of S. multipunctatus spawning with Ctenochromis horei in an aquarium?
We have been trying to pull this off -- actually waiting for our Ctenos ro mature, they're about 3-3.5" (8-9 cm) now, but AFAIK, this has not been accomplished before, and I kinda doubt we'll succeed.
In the aquarium Ctenochromis horei learn VERY quickly not to spawn in the presence of Synodontis. Likely a behavour they picked up by evolving in the presence of the catfish. (Can we say evolutionary arms race anyone!)
Tropheus moorii appear to be even more highly evolved. I have even heard of more than one instance (three to be precise) were a reproductive group of Tropheus would stop spawning immediately upon the introduction of a few Synodontis. In one instance it was even a riverine species, Synodontis angelicus and not even a multi.
I do know that in two of the three cases, the Tropheus started breeding almost immediately after the catfish were removed from the tank.
Besides, Ctenochromis can be mean as hell to start with. I'd rather not risk the cats...
Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley
Ours are aggressive only among themselves. A new male we were silly enough to add was ripped to shreds within minutes. But they leave the catfish -- 50 or so of them --entirely alone. So does our 5" (13 cm) Lobochilotes labiatus. I hate to admit that cichlids are smarter than catfish, but this is definitely by far the smartest fish I've ever seen. So smart, in fact, that it's become a pain in the butt. No matter how we try to outwit it, it always is the first to the dinner table. Catching it is impossible; I'm beginning to think it's telepathic.
I can't substantiate or prove it, but a friend of mine was able to get some S. multipunctatus fry from a Cyprichromis leptosoma this is the first time I've heard of this, his tank is only 12 inches high and there where Astatotilapia latifasciata (zebra obliquidens) in the tank as I have suggested that this where a good host Cichlids any ways I have added S. multi. in with my Tropheus tank and that din't stop them from breeding but they never held catfish eggs I can always see them pick up the eggs but would pass them through the gills. the catfish had cance of picking Tropheus eggs...
the host that I am using now is A. latifascaita and A. nubila w/c has good results I get catfish from 1 out 3 females being stripped but now the cichlids have totally stopped producing it is time to change the host. Barbie good luck on your breeding efforts.
I do love this board. Thanks everyone Once the new tank gets here and set up to make some room for organizing, I'll get some hosts on the way.
(I'm sure it won't hurt to get the petricolas and multis out of the tropheus tanks they are currently residing in, with no spawning whatsoever, lol, shhhh, noone tell the boyfriend that's why his tropheus haven't been producing, please?)
Without your consumate care and expertise, the fish wouldn't have taken the opportunity to produce fry Dinyar, that's all I was saying, admittedly with hopes of the conversation giving me pointers to reproduce the occurence