PlanetCatfish.com

Hi there.
When i went today to the lfs to pick up my Leporacanthicus, i saw this beauty among some newly imported L260.

I don't know what it is, but for sure it is not L260 or L250 or Lower Xingu or L236 or L66 or...????

What do you think?

Whatever it is, is a beauty!!!!!

Reminds me of L250.

dconnors wrote:Reminds me of L250.

Me also but i don;t think so....I corrected the pics...now you can see more of the fish

Whatever it is, its very awesome!

It really does look like something within the 260 line. Maybe even 411.

Hi

It is actually on odd pattern that appears sometimes on L411 Hypancistrus sp "Monte Dourado"!!!!

Cheers
Yann

Maybe L411 but... it has extremely large eyes for the size of the head, I think it's one of a kind from the same localities where other odd ones come from, Lower xingu. If it was newly imported it must have been through a Peru exporter, there are no smuggling of species from Rio jari but from Rio xingu and Rio tapajos it's.

Janne

After seeing your newly added pic I hope you brought it home with you! In the first pics I could not see the size well, but after adding the pic with the hand in it I can see that the fish is fairly small. All I can say is let it grow up a little and see what it looks like!

we have to wait and see to what it will evolve.....the fish size is 4,5cm TL

Doesn't look like a L260, no dots and not like my L411 . Looks like a newbe to me... can't wait to find out what kind it is... good luck...

Hi!!

I am 100% sure it is L411 has a friend of mine who breed these has 1-2 individuals out of his spawns every year... but for some reason they are less competitive and more sensitive than the regular one

Cheers
Yann

Yann wrote:Hi!!

I am 100% sure it is L411 has a friend of mine who breed these has 1-2 individuals out of his spawns every year... but for some reason they are less competitive and more sensitive than the regular one

Cheers
Yann

are there any pics of your friends fish to compare?

thanks!

I have never seen this before but there are a pic in the Cat-eLog looking a bit similar... very nice anyway
Yann,
It would be great to see a pic or two of your friends L411 odd ones.


Janne

Janne wrote:I have never seen this before but there are a pic in the Cat-eLog looking a bit similar... very nice anyway
Yann,
It would be great to see a pic or two of your friends L411 odd ones.


Janne

Yes this is the only pic i have seen of a fish similar to mine but is this really a L411?
Can a color 'mutation' like this occur from a pure-bred bloodline?

I really want to see more pics...

husky_jim wrote:Yes this is the only pic i have seen of a fish similar to mine but is this really a L411?
Can a color 'mutation' like this occur from a pure-bred bloodline?

I think that's a bit unlikely too, but I guess that colour pattern must have come from somewhere.

--
Mats

But when you look at the base coloration between the two animals, yours has a purplish hue, which is common in 411, whereas the other picture, which, IMO, is not 411, has a yellowish coloration.

I've just found some photos of L410 at http://www.l-welse.com.

It looks like as the fish from this topic.
Also there is a photo of small L411

Hi!!

Here are 3 pictures from Alain that I told you about
Such morph appear 2-3 times a year in many many spawn through out the year.
Both parents are from the normal L411 colour morph...the other young are similar to the adult in term of colour and pattern.
The uncommon patterned young are slower in term of growing and more sensitive than normal ones




Cheers
Yann

Hi Yann.

Yes these looks just like mine (or almost like mine) as it is starting to develop the beautiful yellowish base coloration.

Here some pics of the fish...





Does anyone have a clue or idea why this color morph appears?It is very interesting since it has nothing to do with the adults.....

Some more thoughts...

Can we 'safely' "categorize" it as L411?It this correct?
Can i breed it with normal L411 morph?

And i have more questions now whether the L411 is a "pure specie" or not..are there any wildcaughts collected around?...Janne or anyone else can help on this?

Maybe you are getting closer to the definition of an L250, 236 or such? Are we simply talking about morphs, mutants or hybrids? Maybe a hybrid breeds with a mutant who has a father with a different morph than his mother? Are these fish suckermouths really like guppies? I have seen with my own eyes that L173 probably is a species ()I might be wrong). A lot of the other Ls (hypancistrus sp. lower xingu) don`t seem to be collected in numbers supporting a theori of species definition.

i really don't know what it is...I trust Yann on what he said for L411 but i found this very strange....

If this color morph regularly occurs (even with it's rarity) then are we talking about a color mutation or a "suppressed gene" from it's ancestors?

Here is a comparison pic with L250 which of course it is not the case here cause even the pattern seems to be extremely similar the base coloration is different along with fin striping and eye color....



Anyone can post any pics of similar looking fish?

Hi!!

Since the adults have the normal "L411" pattern and since in the same batch 95%-99% of the young have a normal L411 "pattern", there is no reason to call these "mutants" hybrids.
They are indeed L411.
Even if the pattern reminds somehow the pattern of L250, there are many differences in term of the pattern, colour but most of it in term of morphology...
Why such "mutations" appear is another question...but then I guess it is likely the same reason why there are albinos individuals appearing in some spawn...

Cheers
Yann

husky_jim wrote:And i have more questions now whether the L411 is a "pure specie" or not..are there any wildcaughts collected around?...Janne or anyone else can help on this?

L411 is a pure species, they was collected in very large amounts when it was "legal" and I have never seen any "mutants" among the WC, not even one that come close to this pattern. Looking at the fin pattern on this speciemen in the first post and even the one Yann posted and compare that with L411 it match, the only different is the body pattern.

I do beleive that Alain's species and parents is true L411 but to convince everybody that is the case it would be great to even see pictures of the father and mother for these really nice looking offspring's. There are many odd speciemens in nature making it difficult for us to understand the complexity within the genus Hypancistrus, in some localities some of these species is very unstable and maybe this example with the L411 can give us some more understanding why some of these species shows such a huge variety in their pattern.

Haavard wrote:Are these fish suckermouths really like guppies?

Yes, in some localities I do beleive they are like guppies.

Haavard wrote:A lot of the other Ls (hypancistrus sp. lower xingu) don`t seem to be collected in numbers supporting a theori of species definition.

They are collected or was in large numbers but always mixed from the same localities or we beleive they are mixed cause the huge variety both in pattern, colour and body shape, in all cases these are more or less impossible to define as 1 species and needs lots of research to be analyzied before anyone can say what they are.


Janne

husky_jim wrote:

but the fins & tail are completely different in pattern..
The Hannover-lecture about Hypancistrus hybrids was also very interesting last november. So I'll agree with the suggestion of getting pics of the parents.
Although the fish looks nice IMHO we should be carefull with breeding based on visual aspects or we'll end up like guppy-breeders in 10 years!

just an opinion here,
*Jim, if you manage to get hold of these nicely patterned L411, you could try a selective breeding to see whether the young will be of normal L411 patterning or mostly wil be of the nice pattern ones as a study..

hope to hear it, i know it's a long term project...