L140 have spawned; updated with Pics

[krazyGeoff]

There must be something in the water down here

My L140 have just spawned this evening.

I am very happy about this as it is my first attempt at spawning these fish.

Geoff

[racoll]

Great stuff. Looking forward to some pictures.

[MatsP]

Geoff, congratulations and good luck!

--
Mats

[krazyGeoff]

Thanks racoll and Mats

Mum and dad

Eggs under right pectoral fin

Eggs under right pectoral fin

Eggs under right pectoral fin

[jac]

Congratulations Well done!!

[apistomaster]

More congratulations. They look like an attractive pl*co and I bet their juvenile colors will be especially nice. The male's odontodes are sure prominent.
I have never had any of my plecos choose to use a PVC pipe for spawning.
According to the Cat-log entry, breeding has been unreported for Peckoltia sp(l140).
Guess that should be updated?

[krazyGeoff]

Hi Larry,
Thanks.
I am not sure if fry need to develop before it counts as breeding?
Also I have question(s) for you as you have lots of experience with Peckoltia.
The egg mass seems smaller today. I prefer to leave the male to do his job, however I am wondering if he is actually just lying in the cave having a feast on the eggs?
In addition all of the females seem to like sitting in caves. One is so round I think that she may explode, and the area around where the eggs should come out is very enlarged. Should the other females show this much interest in caves? (especially when there are other caves that have males in them)

Cheers
Geoff

[apistomaster]

Hi Geoff,

I know on at least two occasions, I have had a male L134 spawn in succession with a second female before the first brood of eggs had hatched. I had a trio of albino common Bushy Noses that would spawn consecutively within hours so there is a possibility something like that may transpire. I don't think the male will allow a second female to enter the cave to only eat the eggs/larvae.
Of course, there are exceptions to every generalization. I would sit tight and let things transpire naturally. If something does go seriously awry, it sounds like another spawn is imminent and you might want to try the artificial method to ensure a supply of future breeding stock for yourself and friends.

I thought it looked like the eggs in the cave were close to or actually hatching but the details were difficult to see in your photos. The definitely looked like eggs that were close to hatching.
When the eggs hatch the larvae may appear less numerous than before they hatched. Despite their large yolk sacks, the hatched larvae have uncoiled so they don't look as massive as the egg ball does. It seems likely to me that you haven't lost any fry other than the normal dead few per spawn. You may well have more fry to raise than you think. The males always block a full view of their pile of larvae thus making it that much harder to count your chickens, so to speak.

[cmstwc]

WOW!~ You have got a SUPER male there!
Congrats! Good work!

[krazyGeoff]

Thanks,
Larry and cmstwc.
The spawn happened at approx 5.00pm on December 1st.

I know that because at 4.00pm I noticed the female blocked in the cave. I did the scheduled water change and then about 5.30pm I checked the cave to see if the water change had either scared her, or assisted her. And there were the eggs. Therefore the eggs can only be about 50 - 51 hours old, I wouldn't think they will hatch for another 3 or 4 days? hence my concern.

Nature is a funny thing.

Cheers

[apistomaster]

My guess is your male is in the mood to take good care of his brood and everything will proceed well; he is very "hairy."
The eggs were not in good focus so I must have imagined seeing an embryo but actually saw the amniotic fluid surrounding the yolk.

[krazyGeoff]

OK,
I will worry less... The experience with the L002 has made me a bit shy, especially since these are unreported breeding.

Thanks again
Geoff

[krazyGeoff]

I was being nosey last night and there were no more eggs in the cave
I thought that I would have a look around the tank just in case they had been thrown out of the cave. PVC seems to not "stick" the eggs very well, even though I had made the end of the cave not smooth, and the cave was tilted on an angle.

I found about 14 or so eggs.

I noticed that the eggs all had a red line about 1mm wide that went around the egg for about 1/2 of the circumference of the egg.
I took this to be a good sign that there was something developing in there!

I transfered the clutch to my new rescue tank (inside the main tank).

I had anticipated that there would be some hatching today, and this morning there is one egg seperated from the clutch and it has a wiggling head and tail. Most of the others seem to be doing the same thing.

I tried to get some photos of the red line, however my camera would not focus on the eggs properly. It kept focusing on either the glass, or the bottom of the main tank.......

[jac]

I have seen the red line in an egg. I think it is the "backbone" of the larvea inside. Sometimes I can also see the eye's.
The same thing can be observed with corydoras eggs

Hopefully you have saved some eggs and larvea of your fish. Sounds like it's going alright Good luck with the others!!

[krazyGeoff]

Cheers Jac,
BTW now there are two fish in that cave so that may be why the eggs got knocked out?

[krazyGeoff]

FAIL......
All the wiggler eggs have died.
I think that the current / water flow was not strong enough in the rescue tank......

[krazyGeoff]

They spawned again, well 2x actually but the last one the female just released the eggs into the tank as the male would not let her in the cave.

It must have been about 20 december, and today I removed the fry from the cave so that the other (4th) female can get in there.

Here are the pictures:
Dad: (is this one good enough for the cat-elog?)

Fry (container is an end cap for 1 inch PVC pipe)





I think they have another day to go on their egg sac.
Geoff

[2wheelsx2]

That's awesome. I just saw both of your spawning threads at once. MUST be the water.

[jac]

Nice start to the new year Congratulations!
Nice pictures to

[sturiosoma]

Looking good congratulations

[andywoolloo]

Yeah! congrats! great pics also!

[L number Banana]

Those are beauties! Your male is like a prickly pear cactus, very manly fish indeed
Nice work and keep the pics rolling.

[bronzefry]

Nicely done! I swear they need to "practice" a few times before they get it right.
Amanda

[apistomaster]

Hi Geoff,

Did you hatch this last batch of eggs out in the small tank they are in?
That is how I have usually handled most of my ejected eggs although I did recover about 15 L333 eggs with a baster then squirted them back in their cave but also elevated the entrance to help keep them in and that worked. I think the relatively rough surface finish is helpful. PVC is so smooth that there isn't much friction. Your caves aren't very deep compared to those I use from what I can tell. They were part of about 40 eggs produced in that spawn. My caves are all made out of stone finished ceramic floor tiles and are about 6 inches long. The length and darkness of these types of caves are why it is rare for me to be able to see well to the back inside of the caves with a males blocking the view.
The pleco eggs are not adhesive except a little to each other but they seem to hatch out with already fairly well developed sucker mouths and that is how I think they help themselves stay put inside their caves until they have to begin feeding.

[krazyGeoff]

Nicely done! I swear they need to "practice" a few times before they get it right.
Amanda

I think you are right Amanda.

Hi Larry,
These ones the male hatched out until I stole them on the 2nd. (13? days after the spawn)
I would not have been able to get them out of the cave without being able to remove the end cap as they definitely suck onto the cave edge.
The caves are about 13-14 cm deep (5-5.5 inches).
I have used sand paper to "rough up" the last 1-1.5 inches of the cave, in an attempt to get the eggs to stick a wee bit.
The male went into another cave for the night of the 2nd (January, the day I disturbed him), and on the 3rd he was back in this cave. On the 4th he was sitting on another batch of eggs. The next batch looks a bit larger, as the previous ones have only been a dozen or so eggs.
He must be awfully pretty as the females just can't get enough of him . The other less developed male is sitting all lonely in his cave .
I have a weather station that downloads data to my PC.
Interestingly all the spawns (4 so far) have occurred on the night following a sudden drop in the air pressure.
pH 5.3-5.7
Temp 28-29 C
TDS 160-189
The L002 on the other hand seem to be spawning on the night before a sudden drop in air pressure.

One of the fry has died. I am still struggling on what they are eating (even after our other discussion), and have reverted to liquid artemia, zucchini, crushed JBL Nova Bits, crushed JBL Nova Fect, crushed Nutrafin tabs (with earthworms). Tonight I will also get some flake food that has earthworms in it and crush that up as well.

The "little" tank was something I made based on what Farid had shown on one of his posts. It is 20cm (7.5in) x 20cm x 20cm. Two of the oposing sides are 10cm glass then 6cm netting then 4cm glass. I then sit this in the main tank and put an air stone in it, so that they are in their original water and temperature, but get tank water circulated through them. Also when I change the tank water they get a water change for free.
Cheers
Geoff

[krazyGeoff]

The male has eatin the last batch? I wonder if he was just plain old hungry as he has spent the best part of a month taking care of business?

Some more pics........ Ruler is in cm's


L002 and L140 fry (dark ones are L140)

[krazyGeoff]

Hi,
This will be the last of the "growth photos". I have released them into a larger tank, and not really seen them again. Although I am sure they are in there somewhere....




This one is interesting as is shows the difference in growth rates between what I am assuming is a more aggressive feeder and less aggressive ones....


A general observation is that the L140 grow much faster than the L002. They have been in the same tank getting the same food.

Thanks for your help and comments.

Geoff

[jac]

Great pictures
Good luck on raising the baby's!