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I'm in middle of doing some DIY caves out of acrylic pieces

due to my workmanship- I have noticed that all of my caves had something in common- they're all lopsided like trapeziods or something of that manner

was wondering if the plecos wouldn't mind that or would that even give me an advantage over straight cube, straight rectangular or whatever cave that's made out of clay and slate?

I wouldn't think they care too much about the geometrical shape of the hole - as long as it's a "good fit".

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Mats

I've found my loricariids to much prefer odd, craggly shapes over regular cylinders.

my catfishes dont matter if its symmetrical or not, so you can decide whats looking better in your eyes

interesting responses I at least I'll give it a try and see what they would do as its kinda flimsy acrylic but that was the only thing I could work with as the only tool I had was heavy duty scissors that I know how to use hah. Made 5 more caves and also glued together acrylic pieces to make dividers to separate some hypans and to also separate the dwarf cichlids that has been doing nothing but beat each other up lately.

this is what i mean when I say asymmetrical:

male 411 mating.

I swear by them now. They are, bar none, the best caves you can get for spawning. Removing brooding males is next to impossible, though.

As long as the fish feels safe and secure, that's what matters. Plus, using aquarium safe materials.
Amanda

I use symmetrical floor tile caves but I think the irregularly shaped caves are preferable. My feeling is that the most important feature is the surface texture. It should be rough and not smooth like PVC pipe is.

Jon wrote:this is what i mean when I say asymmetrical:

Might I ask where you got these caves? Or are they self-made?

Jeff

Jon wrote:this is what i mean when I say asymmetrical:

male 411 mating.

I swear by them now. They are, bar none, the best caves you can get for spawning. Removing brooding males is next to impossible, though.

How did you make that? Is it fired clay. I mean to try building some cave features with cement. I have a lot of fun working with cement.

hydrophyte wrote:How did you make that? Is it fired clay. I mean to try building some cave features with cement. I have a lot of fun working with cement.

Cement/concrete will need to be sealed in some way to not allow it to leach hardness into the water. It's not terribly bad, but it will affect the pH of the water if untreated. If it's coated with a waterproof surface sealer, then it should be OK.

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Mats

If you do like to work with concrete i recommend trying a latex modified mix design. Latex modified concrete is extremely impermeable and only needs a brief dip in diluted Muriatic acid to neutralize the exposed surfaces enough to have little effect on water chemistry. Be sure to rinse immediately with a sodium bicarbonate solution to stop/neutralize the acid reaction. It is sticky stuff to work with. Typically used on bridge pavement resurfacing projects because it resists deicing salt penetration. Make a zero slump mix for greater ease of hand molding and to have a higher density. I recommend wearing latex gloves while handling this stuff so it won't stick to your hands.

hey apistomaster i know you have discus and i have one question. my discus are breeding for a little while there 3.5in and the male lets the fry feed of him but the female goes after them puts them in her mouth and spits them out on the leave. what can i do to prevent her from doing that?

Everything Discus do right and wrong is normal for that pair for that spawn. Nothing can be done to alter their behavior. The only thing you can do is allow them a given amount of time to prove themselves as a viable pair with brooding instincts good enough to keep. I might go as long as 6-8 months but if by then their brooding behavior hasn't worked out I sell them as a breeding pair that has never raised a brood full term and wish their new owner good luck.
I find only 1 of 3 or 4 domestic Discus pairs prove to be reliable breeders so I always raise far more pairs than I want to get than the number I need. Wish I could give you better news but this is what it has come down to for me. Some strains seem to be more reliable than others. Stendker red turquoise seem to have a better record and all Asian Discus are bad as far as I'm concerned and they are the most prevalent in the market place. I only got a few spawns raised by one pair out five Asian pairs of red turquoise then they never produced any more broods they didn't eat. However, their fry which I kept as future breeders, did give me 2 viable pairs out 3.
I think Asian Discus farmers play a little loose with hormones on fish they export to reduce foreign competition and in turn they sell us cheap infertile Discus. I find infertility to be just as bad a problem as poor brood instincts. Many Discus farms actually have been raising Discus fry artificially so the selection for good brood care has not been emphasized for decades.
I will now only buy from a breeder in the USA who does not import the fish they sell.
Discus are actually now a very easy fish to breed and raise so when they don't perform there is something wrong with the fish. People blame themselves thinking there must be something they are doing wrong but the fact is that it is almost impossible not to succeed with good pairs.

I call those handmade caves, everyone is different in shape size.. but lots of plecos love them because they simulate the natural environment

Plecos prefer irregular caves. There is no doubt about it, but they will use whatever they get anyway (like people having sex without a proper bedroom), so there is nothing wrong in using regular slate or ceramic caves. Another maybe more important consideration is that non breeding plecos prever hideouts that are not breeding style caves.

I am very interested in concrete as it needs no furnace to harden. A small furnace in expensive, and has a limited capacity. Larry mentions Latex modified concrete. What is this? Is it an additive or part of a dry mixture? I have made caves from regular concrete and sealed them with epoxy resin, but would much prefer to use an acid wash instead of sealing.

I didn't look at the PDF, but http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/construction/re ... evlmc3.cfm seems to talk about the right stuff.

And I believe it's a modifier added to regular cement and sand mix.

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Mats

Haavard Stoere wrote:(like people having sex without a proper bedroom)

Bedroom....?

One thing that makes sense for handmade caves is to make a few sizes and let the fish choose what they want.

Jeff

MatsP wrote:I didn't look at the PDF, but http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/construction/re ... evlmc3.cfm seems to talk about the right stuff.

And I believe it's a modifier added to regular cement and sand mix.

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Mats

Thank you for good information again Mats:)

jeff@zina.com wrote:[
One thing that makes sense for handmade caves is to make a few sizes and let the fish choose what they want.
Jeff

That makes really good sence