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Stressed Channel Cat? Not Enough Oxygen?

Posted: 15 Jul 2009, 16:01
by love_abomination
So yesterday was time for the big tank cleaning.
I did a 50% water change, and cleaned the filter and changed the pads (I have a Marineland C-360)
And last night, my channl cat, Moxie, was looking alright.
But this morning, she's gasping pretty hard. I even saw her swimming along the surface of the water.
I have two airlines going into the tank from the Tetra 100, and I left the water a little lower so the fresh water splashes into the top (it's making more of a current than actually splashy-bubbles).

So what's wrong and how do I fix this? I'm really worried.
I love her so much. I got her when she was only 2", and now she's nearly a foot.
Is it possible there's copper in the water? Or wouldn't copper just kill her?
[I had heard from a store that the county was flushing the water system with copper sulfate because of all the rain we had, so I called the county, because my dad knows a guy, and they haven't been doing anything different, and certainly haven't added copper, since it's illegal and they actually put something in to prevent copper from pipes coming off in the water.]

Re: Stressed Channel Cat? Not Enough Oxygen?

Posted: 15 Jul 2009, 16:51
by wonword
Hello sorry to hear about your the condition of your cat.
First things first, did you use any type of dechlorinator (Seachem Prime is a great one) while doing the water change?
Secondly, I hate to say it, but there is a chance your might have killed of the your biological filtration. With such a large water change, you should not replace your filters with new ones, as in your filters is where all the good biological bacteria is workin hard to get rid of chemicals produced by waste in the tank. Take your water to a LFS to get it tested, and if nitrates, nitrites and ammonia levels are off, you are gonna have to recycle your tank. If you have any friends with healthy aquariums (or if your old filter pad is still very wet), take a piece of their filter pad and put it in your filter to try and recolonize your biological bacteria. Im guessing that this is what happened, if your fish is still gasping your probably going to have to do alot of water changes until the bacteria grows enough to recycle the chemicals.

Re: Stressed Channel Cat? Not Enough Oxygen?

Posted: 15 Jul 2009, 17:06
by Shane
Without more information, I would say that the previous poster could be on the right track. Regardless of the cause, your immediate action should be another water change of 25-35 percent. Then monitor the fish for improvement. What other fishes are in the tank and are they reacting this way?
Also, what is your normal water change routine? Large water changes are great, but only when they are frequent. I change up to 70% of the water in my tanks, but I am doing it weekly. If a tank is normally is getting a 10-20 percent water change once a month then the move to larger water changes has to be gradual.
-Shane

Re: Stressed Channel Cat? Not Enough Oxygen?

Posted: 15 Jul 2009, 17:15
by love_abomination
Heheh, yes, of course. I use Kordon Amquel+, and added a bit of API's Stress Coat, too. I'm not a total newb n.n'
But as for the filter media...I followed the instructions =( I changed the pads and rinsed the bioballs in a bowl of the old tank water, and even dipped the sponges in it too. I actually went ahead and dipped everything in the old tank water before refilling the tank.
That's a bummer though. I don't know anyone with a tank, though my LFS could probably let me board there, I don't think they have any free tanks, and I do greatly worry about leaving them there out of my care. What with their losses and occasionaly filtration system gone awry and whatever. Bah.
I have my own test kit (the same one they use- API Freshwater Masters), so I'll take the readings now and do another water change.
As of now she's still having a hard time, but she's not swimming at the surface anymore. Is there any additive I can add (what's that blue stuff they ship fish in?) to ease her nerves?

There's a small Senegal Bichir, and three small gouramis, and as labrynith fish they're hardier against poor water conditions than those that don't breathe air. They're all acting fine.

My normal routine is well..it's a 75 gallon, and weekly I vacuum out 10 gallons and replenish it, and (this is my first month with the C-360) but with my old filter, I'd do a larger 30-50 percent change when cleaning the filter as well, and have never had such a problem, which is why I thought it may just be the oxygen levels.

Re: Stressed Channel Cat? Not Enough Oxygen?

Posted: 15 Jul 2009, 18:14
by wonword
Though its good you dipped everything in old tank water before putting it in, the biological bacteria (BB from here on out) is usually attached to surfaces in areas with current, hence bioballs give them a surface to attach to in an ideal area. Therefore, just dipping your sponge/filters in tank water is sometimes not enough to restart your BB culture, especially in tanks with predatory fish like catfish. The blue stuff they put in while shipping is methylene blue in most cases I believe, even though it does aid hemoglobin-oxygen transfer id be weary about putting it (or any other chemicals) in your tank. In shipping the fish, the shipper only has to worry about it making it to its destination alive, which methylene blue can help, but shippers dont have to worry about their BB as the fish shouldnt (hopefully) be in the bag for too long. Many chemicals can kill BB, so stay away from all chemicals unless it ensures your fishes survival. Though it might have not happened before, you could have just got lucky, to prevent this from happening I try not to change the filter media out until a few days after a water change, and I never clean my bioballs at the same time. If your worried it might be related to chemicals, and you still have the filter you used before the marineland, maybe try running some carbon to remove chemicals. Also, I dont believe bichirs "breathe" atmospheric oxygen, but they are pretty hardy. I doubt its oxygen levels if your running filters and air pumps, unless you accidently introduced a surfactant which doesnt allow oxygen transfer between air and water. Always wash your hands and arms well before putting them in the tank to prevent soap, perfume, etc from gaining entry. Hope that helps. And like Shane said, continue with the waterchanges. :foggie:

Re: Stressed Channel Cat? Not Enough Oxygen?

Posted: 15 Jul 2009, 19:28
by love_abomination
After vacuuming out another 10 gallons (picking up even more debris, ick!), Moxie is already starting to look better. She's panting still, but not quite so hard. I reckon it's because the outflow..thingy..is completely exposed, allowing the water to fully splash with it's force into the surface, like a waterfall.
I did the test, and the results are as follows:
Nitrate- 6.0
Nitrite- 0.25
Ammonia- 0.90

Bichir's actually do =]
While different sources say they have rudimentary lungs, or a lung-like organ and no swim bladder whatsoever, this site goes into detail:
"Bichirs breathe atmospheric air.
Their 2-part, ventrally located, lunglike swimbladder which is connected to their esophagus serves as an accessory breathing organ.
If bichirs are not able to reach the surface of the water to breathe, they will drown, even in waters which are rich in oxygen." which is from: http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/archi ... 51377.html :beardy:

I don't believe that happened. I don't use lotion or perfume, my hair didn't dip into the tank, and while I wash my hands, I don't really bother with soap during stuff like cleaning, until I'm completely done.
I've definitely learned my lesson, and can't thank you and Shane enough for the great quick help. Moxie is most precious to me. You're my herooo =D
Take care!

Re: Stressed Channel Cat? Not Enough Oxygen?

Posted: 15 Jul 2009, 20:45
by wonword
No Problem, glad we could help! Wait for Shanes opinion on this too, but I would keep doing daily water changes until the nitrites and especially your ammonia levels read 0. Your nitrates are ok where they are, as long as they are below 10ppm. Remember that your water does not actually get too oxygentated from the bubbles from the bubble, but from surface agitation. So if you can position your filter to agitate the surface a little it might help with low oxygen, especially if you are using a dechlorinator like Prime which decreases oxygen levels. I swear by Prime, so if its the same price, it neutralizes a number of chemical and has stress coat also (smells really bad though, but not after you add it). Also, if you see red spots (ammonia burns), up your waterchanges. Also, if your using sand substrate, make sure you get a burrowing animal or insect in your tank to stir around the sand so anaerobic pockets dont form.

That is very interesting about bichirs, i havent kept one in awhile, but i never remember mind breathing air!

Re: Stressed Channel Cat? Not Enough Oxygen?

Posted: 16 Jul 2009, 01:00
by Shane
Wonword's advice is spot on.
-Shane