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Hello,
I was wondering what would be recommended for tankmates for Cent. perugiaes? Tanks is a 20 gal L (30x12x12 inches) with a few smaller pleco species(fry) in there. I do like the south american bumblebees, and am very biased towards them, but don't know if the two would mix? I also like some of the corydoras species, but the ones I like I am not sure would be ok with them (the skunk cory, panda cory, or corydoras julii)? Anyt suggestions will help me transform this tank into the tank of my dreams.

Also, I was considering setting it up with a red light (rather than the normal flourescents) to draw out the nocturnal species if they are added?

Thanks in advance!

NV

Hi
You should have no problems adding corydoras - mine share with both C.davidsandsi and C.reynoldsi - as you know, the C.perugiae are generally surface feeders which should make mixing them with other bottom feeding cats OK. I can't see any reason not to mix them with bumblebees, except for there could be an issue with the perugiae being outcompeted for food by them more active bumblebees, so you will need to watch this - blue light is also meant to work well for night viewing, and there are plenty of places online you can pick up strips of blue LED lights designed for aquariums that can be mounted into the hood.
HTH
Martin

Hey Martin,
thanks for the advice. I am working on getting a group of corydoras julii(I think that is what the single one I currently have is, will try to get a picture for ID'ing.) How many would you recommend in a 20 gallon L (30x12x12")? 6 cent. perugiae, 5 corydoras pygmyous, and ??

nvcichlids wrote:Hey Martin,
thanks for the advice. I am working on getting a group of corydoras julii(I think that is what the single one I currently have is, will try to get a picture for ID'ing.) How many would you recommend in a 20 gallon L (30x12x12")? 6 cent. perugiae, 5 corydoras pygmyous, and ??

You should be OK with another 5-6 C.julii - do you intend to add any middle water fish as well?
Out of interest, what's the m/f ratio for your perugiae? Of my five, I started with 3F/2M, but have since lost one of the females.
Does the addition of the julii mean you've dropped the idea of Microglanis as tankmates?
Martin

Did you already get your oil cats? If so, how are they doing? Or are you just doing some more planning before they arrive?

I am personally planning in pretty much giving my 6 a tank of their own, a 37 gal. Their only tankmate at this point will be a small SA bumblebee cat that I already have. I may add another one or two of those later on, though.

Keep me posted on your little guys' development and maybe post a picture of their setup. Thanks again for the help that you provided!

I would consider keeping only fish which present low threat to any fry should your perugiae spawn.
Pencilfish, H.amandae and a dwarf Corydoras species would be examples.
You have a good chance at breeding the perugiae in your present set up and to end up with more of them than you began with would make a more lively display under a red or blue LED night light fixture.

THanks Larry for the advice. check the ID my catfish section and tell me if that type of cory would be fine or not? I kept pencil fish once before, and they bred, but nothing hatched. it was sad cause I would always see eggs getting scattered in the java ferns, but nothing would hatch like I said. I do not currently have the C. perugiae, the shipment the guy got in died so he ordered another 100 and I will get some this time (he will be shipping on monday or tuesday so I should have them tuesday or wednesday.)

nvcichlids wrote:THanks Larry for the advice. check the ID my catfish section and tell me if that type of cory would be fine or not? I kept pencil fish once before, and they bred, but nothing hatched. it was sad cause I would always see eggs getting scattered in the java ferns, but nothing would hatch like I said. I do not currently have the C. perugiae, the shipment the guy got in died so he ordered another 100 and I will get some this time (he will be shipping on monday or tuesday so I should have them tuesday or wednesday.)

I figured that was the case. I wasn't going to have mine shipped in until this coming week anyway, but it still sucked to hear about the accident. Let's hope that the heater doesn't go haywire again!

Yeah, still hoping.

I will post pictures of the tank as soon as it is how I want is set up. Right now I have a slight problem within the tank (was holding some gymnogeophagus sp el norte and a pair formed and bred.. at just under 2" with eggs fertilized.) As soon as I get a day off, I am taking all the gymnos out of that tank and taking them up to my parents house to be put into the show tank. After that I have to re-arrange the wood and add some more that I am working on. As of right now the inhabitants will be:

6x Cent. perugiae
6x Corydoras trilineatus
5x Corydoras pygmaeous
1x Microglanis iheringi (already hidden in the tank)
+ Various Pleco Fry

nvcichlids wrote:Yeah, still hoping.

Ugh, I see what you mean there. Today's news was really no surprise, but I was under the impression that 1) he already had the fish in hand when i paid him and 2) that he was going to get some in over the weekend. This is getting exasperating.

BTW, I picked up a nice pleco to go in the tank with my bumblebees and (maybe, someday) oil cats.




Sold as a L-136B Snowball Pleco, which is being sorted out on another board. But it doesn't matter to me, really - he's pretty cool IMO

I am waiting on them as well, but I am willing to wait as long as it takes due to my El Norte gymno's breeding in that tank. I would love to raise some of the fry and sell them, and then I can get more perugiae's and L52's.

So, this is relevant to the topic at hand, but a slight tangent. I was wondering, how active are your SA bumblebees? I bought two more the other day and they, along with the one I already had, are very active. This probably has to do with the fact that it is only those 3 and my small snowball pleco in a tank that used to hold a few other fish, all of them larger, some much more so.

The point of this is, at this time, I am considering devoting the tank to them and their pleco tankmate. Of course, I would get a few more if I go this route. This whole debacle with the tatia has started to sour the idea of getting them. Although, someone else has suggested that they may eventually be able to supply me with a few. Since this was mentioned, my idea has become but a slight possibility, however I am still curious about how active a bumblebee tank is.

How can you not want some of these

One of my females - I have 2M/2F. They are all now fully grown, and share their tank with some smaller . Although not the most active of fish, I still think they are great little fish!
Martin

Oh, I want them! But not the ordeal that this is developing into. If I can get them without so much hassle, I will be a very happy man.

My bumblebees are extremely active (in the bumblebee tank,) due to the fact it is heavily structured and has complete plant cover, so very little light goes through. I also have a powerhead made for a 60+gallon tank in their smaller tank, but it is on the bottom blowing over the rocks and driftwood, but has little affect on the plants on the surface. But, the single one in the tank that will be for the C. perugiae, he stays hidden ALL the time. I only see him when live food is dropped near where i know he hides. I think current in the tank is more likely to draw them out and the whole very little light. Mine (in the dedicated tank) love to eat endler fry. I have roughly 30 endlers and they were breeding like crazy, but I have yet to gain any significant number of them since they were moved to the bee tank.

Martin, that picture assures me why I am willing to go through all the issues to get them. Plus, they sell for $35 for a 1" fish around here (so after I am over run, I know I can earn some money back and hopefully get on with breeding some other rarer pleco species)

Thanks for the reply. The part about the dense cover makes a lot of sense. After I moved out the community fish, I did put in some plants at the surface, which cut down a little on the light. I also put in a big (fake) driftwood piece that provides lots of hiding spaces... yet they are visible quite a bit.

However, when the day is done, I think I am going to wait to see what happens with the C. Perugaie situation before I stock up on bumblebees. Just out of curiosity... have you dealt with the fellow that we are getting them from before? You seem to believe that he will eventually come up big for us, so I wonder.

Adam

No I have not, but he has extremely good feedback and I do have faith that people will do the right thing. He is always in fast response with me and is extremely nice, so I have a feeling, and its a good one, that he is genuanly (sorry taht is spelt wrong) a good person.

nvcichlids wrote:No I have not, but he has extremely good feedback and I do have faith that people will do the right thing. He is always in fast response with me and is extremely nice, so I have a feeling, and its a good one, that he is genuanly (sorry taht is spelt wrong) a good person.

I hope your gut instinct is right... I am going to stick it out for a couple more weeks and see what happens. I don't necessarily have a bad feeling about it, but the repeated delays are nerve wracking. Also, while his messages to me have been at least cordial, I haven't been pleased to wait a day or more for a response after seeing that he logged onto MFK habitually during the time between. But, I must be patient...

Well, for the first time in my life, I can say I was/am very patient lol. I could not believe how reasonable all his prices are. Around here selling c. perugiae for $20+ and he is selling a group of 6 for about $60, so I feel that he is well worth working with.

BTW, I will be removing my Geophagus Tapajo II fry this weekend to my friend in Illinois, and then the El Norte will be moved out the following weekend. SO, it looks to be 2 weeks before I have things how I want it. (Oh yeah, selling 100+ water lettuce to get some "dwarf" sword species and anubias and crypts as well this weekend.)

Yeah, the deal is great, which the main reason I am sticking around. My LFS has yet to let me know if they can even order them (after almost 3 weeks) and it seems like most places that sometimes carry them online are out of stock. Besides, it appears that the turn in the weather is making the delay not such a bad thing. We are getting absolutely pounded with snow here... and they would have arrived today. I couldn't imagine that happening with things being the way that they are.

And glad to hear that your tank is not far from being ready for them. I'm excited to see how yours looks when they get in!

Ok, so an update for you, he said they were not on the order place from this week, but should be either next week or the week after.

selling off plants tonight, looking for freeze dried blood worms in bulk.

nvcichlids wrote:Ok, so an update for you, he said they were not on the order place from this week, but should be either next week or the week after.

selling off plants tonight, looking for freeze dried blood worms in bulk.

Thanks for the heads-up. I am only waiting two more weeks after this one. After that, I will be cutting it close (I think) on the PayPal cutoff for claims (hoping it doesn't come to that, but I always err on the safe side). I've decided that since I have waited this long, I can wait a bit longer if necessary. With warm weather coming, I think they should become more available.

good point.

Did you see what Uncle Ned posted in the for sale section? Your closer, so shipping should be cheaper, I would look into those. They look awesome!

nvcichlids wrote:good point.

Did you see what Uncle Ned posted in the for sale section? Your closer, so shipping should be cheaper, I would look into those. They look awesome!

Yeah, I saw those. Unfortunately, I contacted him awhile ago about some fish and shipping was insane. Those sure are nice cats, though!

I agree, the $100 shipping was too much for me I would really have loved to get those instead/ontop of the cent. perugiae's and just put them all into a 55 gal rather than the 20 L I am planning on. I will work on pictures this afternoon of the L201's (Might work on re-arranging the tank/ just checking on the plecos and seeing if I can find them all. (breeding trio of L129's and 4 L201's.) THe 201's will end up in a 33 gallon L tank with some friendly SA geophagus species to breed (both species.)

NV

edit:
here is a pic of the tank with the geo/gymnogeos still in it





tell me what you think?

I think the tank looks pretty good - should be ideal for oil cats! Lots of hiding places, plants on top, excellent. I would personally include more cover on the bottom, but I don't think it's essential for those little guys. But I have been wrong before.

Oil Cats should not cost more than ~$10 each before shipping. It has been awhile but I have seen them listed for as little as $7.50.
Most of the really interesting fish rarely show up at my LFS store so paying the high cost of over night shipping is often a necessary evil.
I live in a semi-rural community so I ship most of my fish in and just grin and bear the freight charges. It beats going without a fish I badly want. I had 20 Oil cats a couple years ago and planned to try my best to spawn them but I broke a cardinal rule and put 6 newly purchased Garnet Tetras from the LFS in with the Oil Cats and the Tetras introduced a disease that killed all my Oil Cats within a week.

If you want to breed them then I still would recommend going with a species tank or include some harmless small Characins like those I previously mentioned. A Microglanis Bumble Bee cat or even perhaps a Pleco may vacuum up any Oil Cat eggs they find. I would trust one of the dwarf corys but I'm not sure a typical Corydoras wouldn't eat oil cat eggs too.
As an aside, i have bred and raised Nannostomus beckfordi several times. They are the easiest of the Pencifish to raise but even N. beckfordi fry have tiny mouths and require the smallest of live microfoods initially. The fry seem to hardly grow for months but then 6 months later, the next thing you know the young ones are already to beginning to spawn. Raising some N. trifasciatus or N. mortonthaleri will be my true measure of success.

THanks guys, and yes Larry, I do agree about the plecos. I will move them all out into different tanks when I get the cent. perugiae in and ready to breed. I will keep the corydoras trilianteaous and see how that works out, if it doesn't, they can be moved as well. If the pencil fish you mentioned are available at the time, i will do that, if not, what type of tetra do you recommend?

Edit:

Larry, would Nannostomus unifasciatus be an suitible pencilfish?

apistomaster wrote: If you want to breed them then I still would recommend going with a species tank or include some harmless small Characins like those I previously mentioned. A Microglanis Bumble Bee cat or even perhaps a pl*co may vacuum up any Oil Cat eggs they find. I would trust one of the dwarf corys but I'm not sure a typical Corydoras wouldn't eat oil cat eggs too.

Ime Corys will not eat Auchenipteridae eggs, but the fry have little chance to survive. Not that the Corys will hunt them, but they will simply be vacuumed up by accident. The small harmless Characins will eat them too btw.
I have no experience with the combination Loricariids - Auchenipterids.
To be on the safe side, I'd let the bumble bee out. And killer snails as well

I had species of Nannostomus like N. unifasciatus, N. harrisoni, N. eques and the tiny N. marginatus in mind.
All of the above except N. marginatus are typically surface oriented at approx 45* angles and have extremely small mouths. I know they are able to eat small Tetra fry or those the size of Bettas but mainly at the surface.
I find it unlikely that these Pencilfish would bother fry the size of Corydoras and aren't Oil cat fry larger than Corydoras fry?