PlanetCatfish.com

Can anyone help me distinguish the differences between L018 & L177??? Two different sizes....need to know the exact size before buying one.

Size is probably not really accurate here - we just don't know how large L177 gets, as they grow slowly in captivity.

L177 has larger spots and a wider band (also more even width) on the caudal and dorsal fins.

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Mats

L177
:grows to 7.9 inches
mnivore
:needs rocky caves
:very compatible with most fish
:big dots

L018
:grows to 14 inches
:grazes, in wild eats algae,dead organisms,insect larvae
:small dots


Both are territorial

I would take those size figures with a pinch of salt, considering that both variants PROBABLY are the same species once the scientists get round to identifying these fish. However, if you get one of the average-sized fishes in the shops, it will take MANY years before you get it to 6-7". Diet I would say is pretty much the same for both - algae, insect larvae and dead organisms is pretty much the same as "omnivore", don't you agree?

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Mats

If I recall correctly the exact capture location should give the variant. There are some differences in pattern, but they are not conclusive. L177 is supposed to have the largest dots and widest seams of the Golden Nuggets.
In all ikelyhood they are the same species, so I don't think the max-size will differ. In captivity they will grow VERY slowly, mine made it from 2" to 4" in about 1.5 years. So whichever Golden Nugget you buy, expect it to reach 10". I'd guess in about as many years. If you are lucky.

If you post a photo or two that will make identifying much easier and some of the photo's on this site may be misleading as i have L81(these grow to 7"with the smallest dots) and L18juv. form/L85adult form(these get to at least 25cm+medium dots). The photo's on this site may be misleading (tentative) at best though i can say that fish labeled as L177 appear to be actually L18 but i could be wrong L18's are collected around Altira (Xingu River) and the L177 are collected at the meeting of the Xingu and Iriri Rivers. Ingo Seidel has put forward that the distinguishing features from L18's is a browner base colouration with more orangy spots. I find that the harder/higher the gh i think the browner all nuggets get with orangy spots. Rohan R

Rohan Richardson wrote:If you post a photo or two that will make identifying much easier and some of the photo's on this site may be misleading as i have L81(these grow to 7"with the smallest dots) and L18juv. form/L85adult form(these get to at least 25cm+medium dots). The photo's on this site may be misleading (tentative) at best though i can say that fish labeled as L177 appear to be actually L18 but i could be wrong L18's are collected around Altira (Xingu River) and the L177 are collected at the meeting of the Xingu and Iriri Rivers. Ingo Seidel has put forward that the distinguishing features from L18's is a browner base colouration with more orangy spots. I find that the harder/higher the gh i think the browner all nuggets get with orangy spots. Rohan R

If you think any particular pictures on this site is misleading, please do post correction suggestions in the "Suggestions and bugs" section - otherwise we can't really correct any mistakes that have snuck in.

I'm still of the opinion that these are all the same species with geographic variations that range all the way from tiny spots to large ones in a continuous range - so if you catch a fish halfway between L18 and L81 (say), you get something that has an intermediate size of spots.

As to their ultimate size, you probably can't know that until they are literally 15-20 years old, as they grow almost their entire life, and grow very slowly in captivity. It also appears that the size of dots actually reduce with age - I'm fairly sure I've observed this myself (although I didn't actually measure the size of the spots when I first got the fish, I'm pretty sure the spots were smaller when it died a couple of years later).

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Mats

Identification of L177 is easy as they are labelled as L177 "Iriri nuggets or similar". This is of cource only true if they are labelled correctly (as they usually are). They are slightly higher priced than the other ones because they are considered to be more beautiful. Next week I will be getting 10 Iriri Nuggets from Germany. I would be both surpriced and dissapointed if they turned out to be L18 or L188.
99% of golden nuggets are killed by the keepers as juveniles or sub adults due to wrong and insufficient feeding. Keep this in mind when getting these fish.

Haavard could you say somewhat on the correct feeding please. I would certainly feel that two thirds vegetation to one third meat although i'd love to get further information! Rohan R

Well, most of the stores in my area cannot even determine the fish species let alone label them. By reading the label.....hehehe....most of the time I get : Pleco-Big/Small then the price!!!

Spots size variant is ok if the fish is an adult IMO but then I believe most of us would get them during young. How to mark the differences when their young especially if I've only seen L018 without seeing L177 or seeing L177 without seeing L018?? Buying from my LFS here is like making a huge gamble......you'll never know what you take home till it's full grown!

"In captivity they will grow VERY slowly"

l love these comments, slow compared to what? is someone capturing the same fish in the wild each year to check it is growing faster?

l love these comments, slow compared to what? is someone capturing the same fish in the wild each year to check it is growing faster?

Boots...I understood what Sunfish was trying to say, if you would have liked more detail there is still no need to be condescending, a better phrased question may begin a useful discussion.

Boots n all wrote: l love these comments, slow compared to what? is someone capturing the same fish in the wild each year to check it is growing faster?

I have no idea how fast they grow in the wild, therefore my comment only applies to fish in captivity. And imo 2" in 1.5 years for a juvenile is slow compared to e.g. many other catfish.

chochiss wrote:Well, most of the stores in my area cannot even determine the fish species let alone label them. By reading the label.....hehehe....most of the time I get : pl*co-Big/Small then the price!!!

Yes, and I have a feeling that exporters/wholesalers often have "mixed Gold Nuggets" on their lists, so depending on the quality of the distribution channels to the shop, you may or may not get a direct answer to any of the questions about the fish.

Spots size variant is ok if the fish is an adult IMO but then I believe most of us would get them during young. How to mark the differences when their young especially if I've only seen L018 without seeing L177 or seeing L177 without seeing L018?? Buying from my LFS here is like making a huge gamble......you'll never know what you take home till it's full grown!

Well, the spot size difference between the L177 I used to have and the L018/L081 that are in one of my local shops at the moment is quite dramatic. My L177 had spots larger than 2mm, whilst the spots on the L018/L081 that they have in the shop are around 1mm. That is big enough a difference to make it clearly noticeable for a 4" fish. Now, it's a different matter if you decide to compare a 2" fish with a 4" fish or some such - that can be very tricky. If you plan on breeding the fish, then I'd suggest this:
1. Find a GOOD supplier of the fish that can tell you where they came from.
2. Buy several fish in one purchase - no "buying in installments". If you can't afford (say) 6 fish at once, set up a savings account with your bank and transfer the money for a fish per month (or some such), buy them when you have enough money.

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Mats

Buying in big numbers for breeding is decent. No problems with me financially. The problem is with the LFS cos usually they bring these exotic plecos in small amounts. Prolly 1 fish per species. Unless I make bulk order through a friend which min. order is 10fishes. Now, I don't think buying 10fishes same species is good but it's better buying 10fishes of different variants is better.

BTW, it's bulldog pleco really rare in the fish trade? I might get mine in a week's time, dunno izzit really a bulldog pleco.

Bulldog pleco is the common name for species.

Yes, buying several fish at once requires a LFS that is cooperative, or traveling to a large LFS. Unfortunately, not easy to get around that one.

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Mats

How big do they get anyway?Can I keep one in a 30X18X12 ( 29 ) aquarium?Will they eat my vegitation?

hotsauce48 wrote:How big do they get anyway?Can I keep one in a 30X18X12 ( 29 ) aquarium?Will they eat my vegitation?

Which - gold nuggets or Chaetostoma? Chaetostoma don't go that great in planted tanks, not so much because they don't like plants, but because they like a lot of water-movement, which usually makes plants somewhat unhappy.

Gold nuggets grow slowly to about 10" in size.

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Mats

Then the Chaetostoma should be perfect for my Amazonia tank setup! Wonder will it attack my maccus?

Gold nugget.....will get it let it grow & then if then size got out of hand...I'll throw it into my pond!

chochiss wrote:Then the Chaetostoma should be perfect for my Amazonia tank setup! Wonder will it attack my maccus?

Chaetostoma can be quite aggressive/territorial - and I'd say most of them prefer cooler water than P. maccus.

Gold nugget.....will get it let it grow & then if then size got out of hand...I'll throw it into my pond!

Gold nugget CERTAINLY wants warmer water than the Chaetostoma.

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Mats

Slow growth of the Gold Nuggets is a vague and relative term. They are slow growing Plecos when compare to nearly every other commonly kept Pleco spp.
They are also extremely delicate and do not handle changes in water chemistry and/or temperature change well. They all definitely should be kept above 82*F/27*C to 86*F/30*C.
Most people do nt suceed in keeping their Gold Nuggets alive long enough to ever see them reach their full adult size. They may well be the most difficult of the most popular spp of Plecos to keep.

Chaetosoma cf milesi are a commonly available species so with persistence and patience you shouldn't have much difficulty finding some.
As has already been pointed out, they do best in cooler water than most plecos and a strong current should be provided.