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Hi ppl.I have had 2 batches now with defect fries.All have been defected.
First batch i took in a frytrap without any gravel or sand.I thought i that was problem but now this batch i let be in the maintank until the they leaved the cave by they own.

I cant understand what the problem is!

Some parameters

Ph 7,8 - 8
Temp 28 c
Kh 2
GH 3
nitrates low

Im thinking of two things:

To high ph values or something wrong with my tapwater.Maybe some trace elements is missing
All my other hypancistrus species are doing fine but the zebs not.

Thinking to try:

Add 1 teaspoon coralsand in to the external filter or have 50% tapwater and 50% RO but i dont know the sideeffects in the long run!

Plz help me! This is really frustrating and sad for the fries

I am no expert by any means, but maybe it is a bad genetic trait that skipped the parents.

But they were in the cave with the male.They started to leave the cave yeasterday and about hiding places i have alot of slate in the tank.
222 liters with slate .

I bought a carbon filter that i will start to use now in every wc.
Any other suggestions ?

If your water parameters is really good but you change a lot of water (your high pH shows that you change a lot of water) I would suspect something in your tapwater, maybe chloramine. We have discussed this issue many times and the nitrogen level, bacteria level could as well be one of the reasons for this problem but maybe it's not only them. Many people in Sweden seems to have had many problems with their tapwater lately where their fishes react negatively and even died, the use of chloramine in our tapwater have increased the last years and is today the most common method to chlorinate the water.

Carbon filter will help, even if it not removes 100% of the chloramine it will decrease the levels.

Janne

Hello,

Janne wrote:Carbon filter will help

Yes, they do. A lot of discus-breeders have hat these problems as well and they use carbon filters.
Some chemical residua (pharmaceuticals, agriculture fertilizer or other pesticides) are responsible for the defected fins.
But another reason is possible, the high ph-level and therefore some ammoniak (NH3) in the tank water.

Dieter u and me are on the same track.I breeded discus before.Alot of gills and fins defect was showed.Had to kill over 1000 fries beacuse of that .I have added peat in the external filter now for lower the ph a bit and added little coral sand to get the hardness up to 4-5 DH.

Tnx for every reply! now i have more clues what i could be ;)

What's the parents diet?

Dr basslers biofishfood,O.S.I shrimp pellets,NLS H20 stable wafers and bloodworms pellets

I do not believe pH has anything to do with the defects, at least as a primary effect. It may be involved indirectly, e.g. like suggested via ammonia poisoning. The primary effect of slightly too high pH would be unfertilized eggs, not deformed offspring, although I do find mention that fluctuating pH during development may cause deformity.

It would be helpful to see photos of the deformities. Are all fins eroded? Is the spine affected? Is the fish otherwise normal (no bleeding etc)?

The cause of the deformed fins will be either genetic, dietary (e.g. vitamin C deficiency) or environmental (poisoning, low oxygen during development, or physical damage/crowding). Or a combination of several factors.

Dietary seems unlikely given that the adults are fed three different feeds. I might still be worth replacing those feeds with something else, and in any case it is probably wise to make sure the fish get more vitamin C.

Poisoning is a possibility. Heavy metals (lead, tin, copper...), herbicides/insecticides and some hormones will produce deformities in fish fry. It might be a good idea to critically evaluate the decorations in the tank (in case they're contaminated with, say, copper or insecticides). I suppose the tapwater might be to blame, but you dilute it 50% with RO water which would lessen the risk of e.g. herbicide or copper poisoning, and your fairly high pH should make most metals insoluble.
Activated carbon is a good idea, it will take care of many possible culprits.

Low oxygen and/or high CO2. Is the cave deep and completely sealed at the far end? Possibly a good idea to drill a few holes in the cave to improve circulation. Maybe, depending on setup, also improve circulation in the whole aquarium. See however next point.

Physical damage/crowding. Fish eggs are sensitive to disturbance shortly after fertilization, and larvae are sensitive to trauma, but it seems unlikely to affect a whole batch. One thing to watch out with is if the water movement is so strong that the eggs or larvae start swirling around inside the cave - that could well cause damage.

However, we can't just dismiss the possibility of a genetic cause for the deformities. It is true that deformities are more common when closely related individuals are bred, but even distantly related individuals may carry the same recessive disease. Various deformities are extremely common in intensive fish-breeding, and fin deformities are known to have a genetic base in Clarias.
If changing feeding and environment does not lead to these fish producing normal offspring, I think one have to consider the possibility that the parents are not suitable as broodstock.

Also, I would recommend destroying all deformed larvae to avoid spreading a possible genetic disease; in fact, I'd recommend destroying the entire brood if more than about a third of larvae are deformed.

I agree with Mike now that diet has been cleared up.




I have added liquid iodine and calcium to my tanks FOR my freshwater shrimp and they're thriving really well- I dont know about pleco fries as my clown killies had really good batches one after another. (fed all kinds of flake food, live daphnias, and microworms) I never once had to cull any specimen....

I dont know if that would help your plecos or will just hurt them in the long run.

also forgot to add to research your source of the bloodworms that also could be tainted as well?

I think one have to consider the possibility that the parents are not suitable as broodstock

Edlund, you haven't mentioned the source of your adults. The chance of genetic issues in the offspring of F0 wild caught fish is remote, but if you bought a batch of F1 stock from the same breeder, there is a high chance that you now have siblings breeding with one another.

Hi all.The source is from Janne and a breeder in germany so 50/50.But i was so stupid that i mixed all in the same tank so maybe it is genetic problem but im actually more into that the tap water is bad in some way.I havent heard or seen anyone that had got a genetic defect from F1 thats are from the same batch.