Please be patient with me. I'm not new to fish but I'm very new to pleco's other than BN's.
I have a pair of these... pretty much full grown in a 20 gallon. Sponge filter, rocks, sand and wood. Ph is around 7.2 KH is 3 to 5.
They have bred twice... I saw eggs in the cave. First time he kicked them out of the cave. Second time he ate them. Is there anything I could be doing wrong? Or is this just a practice thing? Do some never get it? If so what is the best way to "tumble" the eggs?
The odds are good that if he ate the eggs, they weren't fertile anyway. Sometimes it takes them a few tries to figure out the process, but they usually do. It's seriously frustrating while they do though! What temperature are they at? Is there quite a bit of flow in the tank? Lack of oxygen in the cave can affect spawns, especially if it's a first time dad that just isn't real swift at figuring all this out and fanning enough.
I threatened to sell one of my oddball Ancistrus males to "Darla" (from Nemo) for a fish bowl if he ate one more spawn. That was after 3 failed attempts I think. You know, he managed to raise a few fry the next time and now, 30 spawns later, he's one of the best parents I've got ;).
The eggs lasted... on the second spawn around 5-6 days... then ate them. How long does it take pleco eggs to fungus??
It could be oxygen but I have made sure all my hyp's have pretty good water flow from the sponge filter. I won't rule that out by all means. Cichlid tend to do the same thign in low oxygen environments.
If he does kick them out ...again... grrrrrr... what would be the best way to take care of the eggs? I'm guessing I don't actually use a tumbler... more like an air line to make water go over them?
Temp is 82
Last edited by longstocking on 30 Aug 2008, 21:01, edited 1 time in total.
Most breeders will tell you - let the male figure it out. It's far better to have him do the parenting than you, and it's also less time consuming. There are some that take the eggs and let them hatch in a breeder box with an airstone and that works great. But, it's a lot of work and it's dangerous to remove eggs from a cave. If you can be patient and let the male figure it out, you'll be happier in the long run.
I think I would just be patient with him. The bigger hurdle seems to get the first spawn. Then after that, they seem to breed pretty regularly.
I'm sure he will get better at brooding and if its a fertility problem, that too should resolve it's self as the breeders hormones become more synchronized with one another. Maybe one of the breeders is just a little young and hasn't matured completely but must be very close or it couldn't spawn.
If you use Barbie's advice to elevate the opening of the cave to make gravity work for you and have good circulation then the spawns will probably begin to follow the normal course.
I like running an air stone in the breeding tank in addition to the airlift sponge filter and the other sponge filter is running off a power head. Using air feeding into the venturi would work just as well as an air stone. I just do what I can to help keep the dissolved oxygen levels as close to the saturation point as possible for the temperature. It may not be that important but I know it can't hurt.
Thanks Larry. Good tip... would not have thought to elevate the cave. I'll give it a go. Those are the little things I don't know... since I'm new to pleco's. (now I understand why a friend buys her caves made that way .... sometimes I don't think lol )
I just thought the oxygen level was important and the current.... but now I'm putting two and two togther. Maybe it will help entice some of my other Hyp's.
Thanks Barbie.... as always
Any more... tips/suggestions I'm open to hear them.
ok after a few months the Dad is finally getting it right.
I have eyes and tails and dad seems to be doing a good job.
What do I do next? Do I move them or let them stay in the tank? What do I feed the fry for the next month or so.... anything special I need to know in order to raise them up?
Generally it is better to leave the fry with the parents. Parents do not normally eat the fry. Feeding should be same sort of stuff that the parents eat, but perhaps chopped down and/or cooked [in case of vegetables] to make it more munchable for the fry.
I have to say, it is my personal experience with this and other hypancistrus species that the fry grow faster and more robustly if you strip them from the father after they lose the sac.
Sorry Jon however, i have to disagree on that in my experience the fry always do better with the parents. This could be a case of food supply, oxygenation or space requirements? I don't use tanks under 4'x14"x18" per pair however,water changes do affect the fry for growth and health. Rohan Richardson
I feel it is easier to target feed the fry as soon as soon as they lose their yolk sacs. If anything, stripping the fry gives them more access to oxygen rich water and more free space (imo those aren't particularly important factors for these young fish, assuming you already got their parents to spawn), so that certainly isn't the issue. I agree that f you do self-hatching, you tend to get lower fry success, but my fry always do better if I release them from the cave after they lose their yolk sac, which is, in my experience, the time when mortality is highest.
In smaller tanks, where you can't just provide plenty of food for everyone without fouling the water, I might agree. In a tank that's large enough to saturate both the adults and the fry, I have much faster growth rates leaving the fry loose in the tank, personally. I have geared towards moving my groups for just this reason. With highly competitive species I try to make a few low flow areas and "nurseries" with rockwork or rubble wood piles for the fry to congregate in where food settles. I've had great luck using that method. Don't get me wrong, I've taken a lot of fry over the years, for varying reasons, but I don't do it anymore unless the fry are in imminent danger for whatever reason.
I would say they need to be at least a month past absorbing their yolk sac before you transport them. Where you're going to be catching them, putting them in a fry condo would make your life MUCH easier, definitely. Catching them at small sizes is my worst nightmare.
Barbie, do you have any suggestions for sequestering food in larger tanks for fry? I always leave my L-66 fry in with the male, as, when I remove them, be pouts and refuses to return to his cave for several weeks. However, I find that the fry often do not seem to have the full bellies I would like them to have.
I take a couple handfuls of 50 cent piece sized roundish stones and make what I call my nurseries. I used to use them for places for tropheus fry to hide and it just sort of automatically moved over into the pleco caves. I make a pile of them or just a flat layer and put a piece of slate over them, depending on the shape of the stones. Then I put that a few inches from the "dead" spot in the tank, so the food is naturally settling close to where they want to hang out. Usually it's within 12" or so of the males cave, depending on the tank layout. L260 fry prefer it to be made out of driftwood, not rocks, zebras want nothing to do with the wood. It's different for each fish, but it definitely lets you spot feed into that rock pile and they can get full on food they didn't have to compete for.
andywoolloo wrote:That is such a good idea!! I am so going to try that for my BN fry!
I have a similar setup with some small rocks in a bristlenose tank - the little ones are forever in and out of that pile of rocks. The bigger ones, obviously, aren't able to get in there.
Barbie wrote:I take a couple handfuls of 50 cent piece sized roundish stones and make what I call my nurseries. I used to use them for places for tropheus fry to hide and it just sort of automatically moved over into the pl*co caves. I make a pile of them or just a flat layer and put a piece of slate over them, depending on the shape of the stones. Then I put that a few inches from the "dead" spot in the tank, so the food is naturally settling close to where they want to hang out. Usually it's within 12" or so of the males cave, depending on the tank layout. L260 fry prefer it to be made out of driftwood, not rocks, zebras want nothing to do with the wood. It's different for each fish, but it definitely lets you spot feed into that rock pile and they can get full on food they didn't have to compete for.
Barbie
Not a bad idea at all, if my nuggets have some fry i'll try that as well thanks Barbie. Rohan Richardson
But if he kicks them out again... I might as well try and save them right 
