Pronunciation audio guides in Cat-eLog

[TP]

I recently went to the CSG convention and listening to the talks it struck me how different the pronunciation of the scientific names of the fish were compared to how I had thought they were pronounced, even though I had seen how they were spelt phonetically in the Cat-elog.

On many dictionary websites they now have a button next to the word which you can press and it obviously plays a sound clip of somebody pronouncing that word properly. There are an awful lot of names in the cat-elog so maybe it is only realistic for the family names and they could be on this page http://planetcatfish.com/catelog/families.php.

Maybe this is something that could be considered for the future.

Cheers

Tony

[MatsP]

I like this idea - but who is right about how you pronounce these names? I'm not sure anyone really knows (for some of the more difficult ones - some are pretty straight forward). That's not saying we shouldn't do it, just that it's a further difficulty...

Edit: I also edited the title of the subject, to be a bit clearer as to what it's about...

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Mats

[Shane]

I recently went to the CSG convention and listening to the talks it struck me how different the pronunciation of the scientific names of the fish were compared to how I had thought they were pronounced, even though I had seen how they were spelt phonetically in the Cat-elog.

Like Mats I think this is a good idea, but wonder if the associated amount of programming work would be a good trade off.

Those raised in the Church speaking Latin have a leg up, as do those with a background in a Romance language such as Italian or Spanish. However, as you have noted, pronunciations vary widely in part due to regional accents. Jool's' Scottish English influenced pronunciations are often very different from my own American English/Spanish influenced ones. As very few people these days have a formal background in Latin I do not think this is a big issue provided the two speakers understand each other.

Pronunciation of scientific names is further complicated by the fact that they are very often "latinized" words or proper names from other languages.

Leporacanthicus joselimai

is a great example as it is a latinized person's name and includes the letter "J" which technically does not exist in Latin. Luckily, when used, J in Latin is the same as J in Spanish, so "major" is pronounced MAH-yor, or in the case above Ho-say.

While there are many rules to memorize to properly pronounce Latin, the biggest two for English speakers are (that like in Spanish or Italian): 1 There are no silent letters and 2. Every word has as many syllables as it does vowels.

-Shane

[racoll]

Nice idea, but would be an absolute nightmare to get any agreement at all.

For example, all family group names end in the suffix "idae". Now how do you pronounce the "ae" dipthong?

I say "die", but many others say "dee" or "day". I maintain "die" is the correct classical latin pronunciation, but others will certainly disagree, and may prefer the ecclesiastical way.

Then, as Shane says, you start to add people's accents on top...

[Suckermouth]

This is pointless, for a lot of names the scientists don't even agree how to say this stuff, and so there's no proper way for a lot of these things for their to be a guide for.

[racoll]

This is pointless, for a lot of names the scientists don't even agree how to say this stuff, and so there's no proper way for a lot of these things for their to be a guide for.

Yup. It's not really designed to be a spoken language, plus there's all the Latinised and Greek words too ...

Best advice for conference presentations: avoid names where possible, or you'll look like an idiot when you get it wrong!

I wonder how many people actually pronounce joselimai as "ho-zay-leemer-eye".

[Silurus]

To further complicate matters, some scientists decide on how the name should be pronounced, often always at odds with its “proper” Latin manner.

For instance, John Sparks (with my complicity) decided that the anchariid genus we described as Gogo should be pronounced “goo-goo” (which is how it is pronounced in many Malagasy languages)...and it is described as thus in the etymology of the genus.

It is pronounced in Latin (the “proper” way) as it is spelt (which is also how English speakers pronounce a musical subgenre that originated in the mid 60s).

[MatsP]

I wonder how many people actually pronounce joselimai as "ho-zay-leemer-eye".

Particularly as the Cat-eLog says "joe see LIM eye"

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Mats

[Jools]

I wonder how many people actually pronounce joselimai as "ho-zay-leemer-eye".

Particularly as the Cat-eLog says "joe see LIM eye"

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Mats

My understanding is that it's Brazilian Portuguese so you say the J "as is". Like José Mourinho.

Jools

[Jools]

Best advice for conference presentations: avoid names where possible, or you'll look like an idiot when you get it wrong!

Or someone like Marilyn Weitzman corrects you in front of an audience of a few hundred when your view of pronunciation differs from theirs. You feel a bit of a

In all of this however, I am minded that if we are to standardise, the way forward is a audio link of what we thing the standard should be. I am also equipped with a wife who knows about this stuff.

But first, at test of the arbitration process, which is correct...

sigh no don tiss OR sin oh don tiss?

Jools

[Shane]

I wonder how many people actually pronounce joselimai as "ho-zay-leemer-eye".

To me that pronunciation reflects two old world accent proclivities. 1) The UK English tendency to add nonexistant "R"s at the end of words that end in "A." 2) A regional Spanish (from Spain) tendency to pronounce "S" as as what sounds like "Z" to new world Spanish speakers.
To the US ear (although I find it cute) it sounds like Brits are saying lee-mur instead of lee-mah. I would say "ho-say-lee-mah-eye."

sin oh don tiss is what I use, but I am not sure it is any more correct than the other.

I'll just be happy when we can get people saying (panaque) pa-nah-KAY. The latinization of this word to the dimunitive (Panaqolus) was a disaster. pa-nah-kohl-us? It loses the entire sound of the original and its nod to a Venezuelan indiginous name.
-Shane

[Birger]

But first, at test of the arbitration process, which is correct...

sigh no don tiss OR sin oh don tiss?

I have been using " sin oh don tiss" for quite a number of years now, think I changed the way I pronounced it after seeing this pronounciation in PC.

Birger

[Shane]

Oh yeah, and it is Wingardium leviosa, leviOsa, not levioSA.


-Shane

[MatsP]

And is it "Wing-ard-ium" or "Win-Gard-ium"? [I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing it's a name like Wingård (which translates to Wine Garden) that it is named after, so it should be the latter...]

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Mats

[Jools]

Wingardium leviosa

Man, that's a great new genus and species for next April (1st) cotm. The flying catfish!


Maybe Shane and I can just say all the latin names there are and put them up. If they're then challenged it happens in the same way as all other catelog data.

Notice how I roped Shane into this!

Jools

[racoll]

sigh no don tiss OR sin oh don tiss?

I'm sure "sin oh don tiss" is technically correct, but it just sounds weird. Imagine calling them "sinn-ohs" rather than "sigh-nose". Doesn't bear thinking about.

I wonder how many people actually pronounce joselimai as "ho-zay-leemer-eye".

To me that pronunciation reflects two old world accent proclivities. 1) The UK English tendency to add nonexistant "R"s at the end of words that end in "A." 2) A regional Spanish (from Spain) tendency to pronounce "S" as as what sounds like "Z" to new world Spanish speakers.
To the US ear (although I find it cute) it sounds like Brits are saying lee-mur instead of lee-mah. I would say "ho-say-lee-mah-eye."

Haha, I actually didn't give it that much thought! I think you are correct though.