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Went window shopping for fish tanks. Found no Rio 240's but found a Rio 300 for £286 complete set up, last one in the shop!!!!

Best deal or what?!

Only thing is my dad doesn't seem to be agreeing to it :@

Really annoys me too, considering the lowest I've found online is £425!

The goldfishbowl lists the RIO 300 at £390 with the cabinet. £286 sounds like a bargain, particularly if it's including the cabinet - if it's not including the cabinet, you may want to check how much they want for the cabinet - although it's possible to build your own for a lot less, it's also a bit tricky and can cause problems if you don't get it perfectly straight and . It is even less than the RIO240 (goldfishbowl lists that one at £310). The extra 60 liters comes from a wider base, so it gives you a bit more space of larger fish. I personally would think that the RIO300 is a better tank than then RIO240 - but I'm not your father.

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Mats

I'm going to the LFS to put down a deposit to get the tank tomorrow

The Rio300!!! Last one in stock and they aren't ordering anymore tanks in after all the ones they've got now have gone

Hopefully when the man rings me back he'll still have it and I'll go there before 6pm to put down a deposit hehe!!! So excited, I best start thinking about the plants, fish etc...

I know I'll be going with sand, and I might try this tank without any wood... unless I can get the boiling correct, as the last lot of wood leaked loads of tannins in the water

Last night as I was thinking about what I could stock for that tank, I came across thinking of Mbuna Cichlid tank. Angels and community tanks, denisonii barb and community tank.

If I went with the mbuna cichlids I could probably get a load for cheap, maybe even free from the man that Im looking after his cichlids *make sense?* as he has fry and holding females.

But I do like the denisonii barb alot, because of their colours, and I should be able to stock and nice shoal as the Rio300 is 66US Gallons!!!

But everything is all blurry at the mo til I get the tank. But I deff want sand substrate (Y)

Suggestions are very much welcome!

What to put into a tank is, of course, mainly a matter of tase - and possibilities

However, if one stops to think about the costs of having a tank, I'd say don't try to save money on the bought fishes - go tfor the maximum amount of pleasure form the tank

The 10 or 80 pound extra will soon be forgotten

Well I've bought it, and I pick it up tomorrow

But I don't think I can assemble it downstairs until we have decorated, and knowing my dad that'll take some time

But I suppose that'll give me some time to get the substrate, rocks, wood etc

And more time to think about the fish.

I'm still looking in the direction of denisonii barb even though on site I can't have much with them, but then also on the same site it says you need 200litres for a motoro stingray :/ and 200litres for clown loach :s

Where is the best place for the best information on all fish?

Pictures:




Would it be possible for a moderator to change topin name to 'My Tanks' ?

Also any suggestions on external filters, as the internal Juwel one is a bugger to get to...

How easy is it to keep a external filter compared to a internal filter?

Where is the best place for the best information on all fish?

Here at PC! We don't just know about catfish! We keep all kinds of fish from Tanganyikans to marines. I imagine there are people on this site who have kept almost everything.

Also any suggestions on external filters, as the internal Juwel one is a bugger to get to...

How easy is it to keep a external filter compared to a internal filter?

Always go for an external. Superior filters in my experience. By far the best are Eheims. I have nearly 20 year old Eheims still running on my tanks. Very reliable and simple to use. "Classic" model is the best and cheapest. You would need the 2217, or a pair of 2215s.

Another option is the Fluval FX5. I have one of these, and although a bit noisy, it turns over a massive amount of water; essential when keeping demanding loricariids like .

The Tetratec filters are very good value, and are quite popular. I think they get quite good reviews in PFK.

Whichever brand you buy, get the biggest one you can afford.

I'm still looking in the direction of denisonii barb even though on site I can't have much with them

Why not? I can't think of any good reason. There are loads of fish that that love the cooler water (22-25C) and fast current preferred by the P. denisonii. The lovely panda garra (Garra flavatra) or would be a perfect tankmates. A group of nice wild would also work really well. Once you get a bit more experience, you could add a group of the more difficult Asian cool-water catfish such as the or .

I would definitely go for the P. denisonii, but do get loads (i.e. >15). Although it is always hard to resist temptation, the best tanks are those with fewer numbers of species in larger groups. Perhaps three or four species at the very most. It always looks better, you have a good chance of breeding them, and there is less compromise when it comes to conditions. Don't have any other midwater fish than the P. denisonii. It would ruin the effect.

Have a look a Jeremy Gay's river tank in the April edition of PFK. A really nice tank that would be an excellent example to copy. You would also need a couple of pumps (the Hydor Koralia pumps look really effective).

I might try this tank without any wood... unless I can get the boiling correct, as the last lot of wood leaked loads of tannins in the water

Tannins don't bother the fish one bit (many species actually like it), so don't worry about that. Tannins do reduce algae, which is a real benefit. Not many blackwater tanks have algae problems! I think tannin stained water can look aesthetically nice if the aquarium is styled in a natural way.

No amount of boiling will get rid of it all, but after a while they will leach less and less. It stops completely after a few years. If the tank is looking a bit dark, I know I'm due for a water change. A good 50% change has the water clear again. If it really offends you, you could filter with carbon once a week just before a water change (its not recommended to run carbon 24/7).

Yeah I know it's harmless just not too fond of it.

Also I think the denisonii barb may be too large for my tank, I saw 4 in a Rio400 and they we're big.

I'm quite fond on Gold Severums

And also the Tetraodon Barbatus.

I'm splitting this into a separate thread, as we already have 5 pages, and then we can have an appropriate title.

On the filter situation, I put a Tetratec EX1200 with the pipes going into the filter box. But I also have access to the corner where the filter box sits [not that you need that if you have an external filter]. My RIO 400 also have an Eheim ProII 2028 on it.

Edit: To make the outlet from the filter go through the hole of the original filter box, I manufacured an "S" from some 21mm overflow pipes and the necessary "elbows". These happen to fit perfectly on teh EX1200 outlet. Another option, if you have the tank empty, is to drill another hole in the plastic case - using a hole-saw would produce an externally clean cut (and you don't care about the inside, do you?).

I choose the Tetratec over an Eheim Classic, as the price is about the same for similar product (at my shop), but the Tetratec caem with better filter media, and a little more flow. I bought a second TetraTec for my fish-room not so long ago. The Tetratec is closer in design and functionality to the Eheim ProII than the more "basic" Eheim Classic models. There's nothing wrong with the Eheim Classics - they are great filters, but the Tetratec gets you more filter for the same money.

As to stocking, I agree with Racoll: More of one species is better than few of many.

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Mats

I think I'm going to get a pair of Angels or more and then something else maybe.

Plants:

http://www.thegreenmachineaquatics.com/ ... dID=239244

http://www.thegreenmachineaquatics.com/ ... dID=210352

http://www.thegreenmachineaquatics.com/ ... dID=210362

Are they all aquarium plants?

Wood Pieces:
http://www.thegreenmachineaquatics.com/ ... dID=248315

Does that wood float?

Also should I get sand or some plant substrate?

They all seem like good plants, and as far as I know they are "underwater plants", rather than the sometimes occuring plants that are "ok under water, but really prefer to be above water".

I have no idea if that wood will float or sink - the only wood I know for sure sinks is Mopani. It is also VERY hard (heavy wood is usually hard - there's a good correlation between the hardness and the weight). Almost all wood will sink after being sufficiently water-logged - it may take some time tho'. I kept a piece of apple-tree under water for several weeks before it decided to sink without weighs. A bucket large enough to hold the wood is a good idea. Boiling the wood will help, and if it's not got bark it wil help the water-logging process.

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Mats

Anubias might be growing in nature in water - I would not know. However, they do grow very, very slowly, and will, thus, not do much in water chemistry - many swamp plants, not liking water, will do better

Regarding wood, I have a few pieces which take very long to sink. In fact, I started to like floating wood as part of the decoration. When the pieces sink, I tak them out to dry - a week. Then they will float for another 6 months or so. However, the wood on the pic does look like normal wood, sinking in, say, a week - or sooner

This is what I'm thinking of for the stocking list.

1 or 2 Pairs of Angels
10+ Three-Lined Corydoras *if I can have that many*
Either a pair of bn plecos and try to breed or a pair of zebra plecos and try to breed, if not one common pleco?

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Don't expect L046 and angels to be happy together

Angels prefer 27 C (happens to be 80 F) and quiet, or no, waterflow
L046 preferr, say 32 C (that is 90 F) and rather fast moving, highly oxygenated water

Further I would expect the angels to eat the food intende for the L046

bn would be much better, but I've met quite a lot of people who will never again keep bn - as these can breed better than rabbits

a 'common pleco' - most likely a Pterogoblychthys sp., will get far too big, over 1 foot, perhaps reaching 2 feet . I have 640 l tanks, which I consider too small for them

What pleco would you suggest for my tank size?

1 Ancistrus (sp 3, Bristlenose) would be a good idea, or perhaps 2 males (or 2 females, but generally speaking, females are sexed as 'not a male, thus female' and might therefore grow into males after all)

They are by far the best algae eaters.

Another option would be Panaque maccus, or related. Not that they eat a lot of algae, but they do take care of the wood in your tank. Realy inert bogwood is not available, and the woods we use will deteriorate. My personal view is, that this deteriorated wood best be consumed by a pleco in order to keep the wood healthy.

Panaque is better cleaning wood than Ancistrus is, as far as I know.

Would it be possible to house both of these with no major issues?

I'd expect some lil squabbles, but no attacking to death?

I have for a long time kept with with no ill effects - I only moved them apart when I wanted to breed the P. maccus - no success on that breeding project as of yet.

These will not squabble sufficiently to cause any problems - some fish may do, but not these. At least not if there's enough hiding spaces and enough food for all to go around.

You will struggle to find Zebra plecos for sale, and they would probably be better off in their own tank (for example your RIO125 fitted with a large external filter and another form of circulatory high capacity pump to make it flow really well).

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Mats

1 or 2 Pairs of Angels
10+ Three-Lined Corydoras *if I can have that many*

Bear in mind most Corydoras do better at temperatures significantly cooler (20-25C) than that preferred by angelfish (27-30C), although captive bred angelfish are certainty more tolerant than wild caught. I do believe though that it is best not to compromise, and to have a collection of fish that will thrive in, rather than tolerate the parameters of your tank.

What pl*co would you suggest for my tank size?

Most wild caught "exotic" plecos also require warm water (27-30C), which must be well oxygenated. They don't need dozens of powerheads to simulate the currents that they experience in the wild, just a decent amount of circulation and surface water movement to keep oxygen levels high. Aim for about a turnover of at least 10x per hour. I always include an airpump, as this provides fresh oxygen rich air into the closed aquarium cabinet, for good gas exchange.

The Rio 300 is a big tank, and you could have a good sized species group of plecs in there. Most plec enthusiasts are moving away from just keeping a few of everything and concentrating on getting breeding groups together.

South American governments are tightening export restrictions of ornamental fish, and the UK government is tightening up on imports, so if we are to enjoy keeping these species in future, the hobby will need to be self sufficient.

You could have a nice sized group (5-10) of some of the small/medium sized plecs such as dwarf , , , or .

and would be an excellent choice, but you will need upgraded filtration for the Panaque. They eat vast quantities of wood and quickly make a big mess of the tank.

I strongly urge to take your time when thinking about stocking the tank. It is a very important stage, and bad decisions made now will affect what you can get in the future. Many shops allow you to trade fish, but don't count on it. Have a read of this...
http://planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/sh ... cle_id=126

There are several Corydoras that are happy in higher temperature, for example (again, the Cat-eLog search can help find fish that match a certain target temperature):


and their second cousins in the Callichtyidae family:


I have all three of these at 28'C in my RIO400. The sterbai's have bred several times - I even found a juvenile in the tank the other day that must be over 6 months old - I didn't know it was there. The C. similis are still young and haven't spawned yet.

You can certainly have a group of 10+ corys in a RIO300.

Just bear in mind that when you start the tank up, you can't add all fishes at once. Even if you start with a pre-cycled filter [1], you can't just load it up at once - you need to gently add more fish to allow the filter to catch up to the new bioload.

[1] You can jump-start a fresh filter by "washing" some filter media from another stocked tank in the water in the new tank. It'll make a mess, but the filter will sort things out, and it will have a nice population of bacteria.

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Mats

you can also kick start the filter using BLUSTART manufactured by Ferplast (this is a bacterial activator [which supposedly immediately matures water] that i have used very successfully when setting up new aquaria). The info on the product says there are 100,000 bacteria per gram which can double every 30 minutes in typical aquaria.

Cool thanks for all the information people (Y)

I've been told on another forum that adult angels attack bn's to the death, and this is coming from people that have kept angels their whole life and have seen it happen :/ So I'm having second thoughts on a BN pleco.

But I did find this lovely fella http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=302

Would one of these do ok with angels and 10+ corydoras?

Also about the zebra pleco's one of my LFS has some in for £39.99 each... But I may convert my Rio125 to a breeding tank, but only once I've lost all other fish or moved them over to the 300.

I have got a trio of Corydoras trilineatus and one Black Peru Cory in my rio125 and the temp is 28C and they seem to be doing fine and now with 2 air pumps they're even more active

Could I move all my fish in my 125 to my 300 once it's set up and cycled?
Well mainly I'd like to move the corydoras over, rams, kuhli loach, bn pleco, zebra danios *give the guppies away*
Hopefully all of them will still be alive by the time it's cycled, but do you see any future fights with doing so?

So stocking list would be:
Pair Angels
Pair GBR's
1 BN Pleco
13 Corydoras trilineatus
1 Black Peru Corydoras (will add more)
2 Kuhli Loach
2 Zebra Danio
1 Snow King Pleco *if im allowed and can find one*

Personally think a snow king will be way too big for your tank - CateLog shows it as 15.7" which is as long as your tank is wide.
I've never heard of a BN being killed by angels - i can only think this may happen if the angels spawn and get territorial, but they are pretty hardy and would be surprised if you had any problems. Am sure your info is correct in some cases, but there must be more people who have kept angels with ancistrus with no problems than there are those who have had experiences like you describe.
Zebra plec could be one of a few fish who look similar - a picture to confirm ID would help, but most are a relatively small size so would be ideal to try to breed, though you'd probably need 5 (and be able to sex 2M/3F) to have a chance at breeding them...assuming they can be bred in the aquarium.
Apart from the snow king, I would say the only problems you may have is if the rams and/or the angels breed, then you could end up with a bit of a teritorial dispute going on, but the tank should be big enough for this to be not such a huge problem.
HTH
Martin

Mmm I also looked at the temperature, and considering my angels will be the main attraction their temp is 24-28C so I found this pleco, it's 5inches smaller then the Snow King: http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... cies_id=87

And it's a plus he eats algae

If not that one, which would be the biggest pleco I could have?

How can you ID the zebra plecs to know they're 100% real and not fake?

Angels can certainly be aggressive, but a mature enough bristlenose would be perfectly able to defend itself.

As to keeping corys at high temperature, it's not that they will die immediately - it just shortens their lifespan quite noticeably.

Again, the Snow King pleco is unsuitable to mix with Angels or Rams due to temperature, if nothing else. It comes from much further south than the Amazon region, and it's cooler there (just like it's cooler in the UK than it is in northern Africa).

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Mats

I second Martin's comments above.

Also about the zebra pl*co's one of my LFS has some in for £39.99 each

I am 99.9% certain that these will not be at that price. They'll probably be , the chocolate zebra plec.

I have got a trio of Corydoras trilineatus and one Black Peru Cory in my rio125 and the temp is 28C and they seem to be doing fine and now with 2 air pumps they're even more active

Temperatures higher than the fish are used to will make the fish more active, but will significantly reduce their lifespan and accelerate the onset of diseases.

o I found this pl*co, it's 5inches smaller then the Snow King: http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... cies_id=87

The I would say is still a bit too large, as they are quite bulky and messy fish which will take up quite a lot of your stocking space. You may also find it very difficut to locate one. Not a frequent import these days.

I would recommend something like a few . This way you will get "more fish" per unit stocking space.

Any other kind apart from that, as I'm not fond of the look of those.

I will try my best to stock fish with the same temperature needs

General stocking rule is 4L x 2L x 2L - where L is the max size of the fish. In your tank, the smallest side is 50 cm, so an absolute max of 25cm (or 10" if you prefer). But I would recommend, like racoll, that you go for the next couple of sizes smaller, say up to about 15cm (150mm, 6").

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Mats