need help with my gulper catfish

[kidman]

Asterophysus batrachus

need help with my gulper cat..

about 2-1/2 weeks ago she suddenly stopped eating and hasn't eaten since.. i have had her for about 1-1/2 months now and has been eating regularly shrimp & mussels (handfed) when i got her .. but now she will come up, take the food (shrimp or mussels) and after a couple of seconds spit it out.. i tried hand feeding feeders but the same thing happened.. after the initial bite, she spits it out..

water parameters are: ammonia - 0 , nitrite - 0 , nitrate - 10 , ph - 7.4

i've moved her in another tank with silver dollars and feeders hoping she would eat but none have been missing ever since the move (1 week ago)..

some one from another forum suggested force feeding and showed me a video so i tried to do the same thing.. his gulper though swallowed the shrimp after the guy held its mouth.. mine did not want to swallow but just held the shrimp in its mouth then after 30 seconds of me holding her and struggling i decided i don't want to stress her too much and let go.. she then started "coughing" out the food and spit it out ..

hope you guys can help me out, anyone had similar situations and managed to get theirs to eat?

[MatsP]

My first question would be:
How large is the fish, and how large is the tank? What's the filtration system?

Is it possible that it's reached the age when they need less frequent feeding?

Generally, force-feeding fish is counterproductive because it stresses the fish, and it's likely that the reason the fish doesn't want to eat is either that it's not hungry, or because it's unwell. If it's not hungry, there's no need to feed it. If it's unwell, it needs to be made well again, not force-fed.

And remember, fish rarely die from too little food, but often from too much food.

Have a read at:

Asterophysus batrachus

--
Mats

[Marc van Arc]

Generally, force-feeding fish is counterproductive because it stresses the fish, and it's likely that the reason the fish doesn't want to eat is either that it's not hungry, or because it's unwell. If it's not hungry, there's no need to feed it. If it's unwell, it needs to be made well again, not force-fed.*

Have a read at:

Asterophysus batrachus

*The above is a very good remark; I too think it does more harm than good.

Not having kept this species I can be of little help. However, I've heard that keeping this species is not as easy as the CotM article suggests. Perhaps the food (shrimps and mussels) is a bit one-sided with too little vitamins? Feeders: goldfish? If so, that could well be the cause of any (still invisible) illness, as they are apparently bred to have the lifespan of a bunch of flowers these days. See for instance if it has (some) worms hanging out of its anus; a disease usually caused by bad feeders. Any other difference in behaviour? Any chance of a picture?
These are just some thoughts and I wish I could be of better help instead of asking all these questions.
Hope you're able to keep the fish alive. Good luck.

[Richard B]

i haven't kept this species either so cannot speak from personal experience. However i have kept many fussy & predatory species.

Top quality water is always the most important thing. If the water is 100% guaranteed perfect the next step is to establish the feeding frequency - predators like this may be happy witha substantial meal only once a week - it is important to remember that a hungry fish, actively seeking food is generally a very healthy fish. Some predatory creatures survive a year on a single large meal!

if there are no visible signs of anything my advice is to establish good water, with regular changes. check tank & replacement water before & after the change. Avoid feeding for a week & closely observe - is the fish moping around, sulking & looking unhappy or is it looking good, searching for food?

These things have more-or-less been said above & you are right to ask for personal experience. I have seen this fish quite a few times at dealers and after watching them i have concluded they do not have (or i have not seen) a "typical behaviour". It is hard to desribe but Ian would know what i meant if it were a cory, i know what it is for most synos, Marc knows what it is for various woodcats. Sometimes we will see a fish at a dealer & know it just doesn't quite look right for what we kow & expect it to do - a bit like a rock dwelling c*****d in a bare tank where it is dazed & confused.

If it appears to be "moody" in good water, there may be something not visible, causing a problem.

I do wish you all the best - keep us posted on your progress.

[kidman]

My first question would be:
How large is the fish, and how large is the tank? What's the filtration system?

Is it possible that it's reached the age when they need less frequent feeding?

Generally, force-feeding fish is counterproductive because it stresses the fish, and it's likely that the reason the fish doesn't want to eat is either that it's not hungry, or because it's unwell. If it's not hungry, there's no need to feed it. If it's unwell, it needs to be made well again, not force-fed.

And remember, fish rarely die from too little food, but often from too much food.

Have a read at:

Asterophysus batrachus

--
Mats

thanks Mats. I have actually read the fact sheet before i got my gulper.. i really didn't expect having problems with feeding with them..

its about 6" and in a 75 gal tank.. it hasn't been eating for close to 3 weeks now so i'm really getting concerned..

the force feeding i tried as a last resort since its getting really skinny..

[kidman]

*The above is a very good remark; I too think it does more harm than good.

Not having kept this species I can be of little help. However, I've heard that keeping this species is not as easy as the CotM article suggests. Perhaps the food (shrimps and mussels) is a bit one-sided with too little vitamins? Feeders: goldfish? If so, that could well be the cause of any (still invisible) illness, as they are apparently bred to have the lifespan of a bunch of flowers these days. See for instance if it has (some) worms hanging out of its anus; a disease usually caused by bad feeders. Any other difference in behaviour? Any chance of a picture?
These are just some thoughts and I wish I could be of better help instead of asking all these questions.
Hope you're able to keep the fish alive. Good luck.

about the feeders, actually it hasn't eaten any feeders yet.. i just put in a feeder since it hasn't eaten for close to 3 weeks now and i tried the feeder just to get it to eat.. but its still there so whatever is ailing it it wasn't because i fed it feeders..

i don't see any worms sticking out of its anus though..

the only change in its behavior is it has become a little skittish at times but again, its does take the food when i hand feed it.. but spits it out after a couple of seconds..

[kidman]

i haven't kept this species either so cannot speak from personal experience. However i have kept many fussy & predatory species.

Top quality water is always the most important thing. If the water is 100% guaranteed perfect the next step is to establish the feeding frequency - predators like this may be happy witha substantial meal only once a week - it is important to remember that a hungry fish, actively seeking food is generally a very healthy fish. Some predatory creatures survive a year on a single large meal!

if there are no visible signs of anything my advice is to establish good water, with regular changes. check tank & replacement water before & after the change. Avoid feeding for a week & closely observe - is the fish moping around, sulking & looking unhappy or is it looking good, searching for food?

These things have more-or-less been said above & you are right to ask for personal experience. I have seen this fish quite a few times at dealers and after watching them i have concluded they do not have (or i have not seen) a "typical behaviour". It is hard to desribe but Ian would know what i meant if it were a cory, i know what it is for most synos, Marc knows what it is for various woodcats. Sometimes we will see a fish at a dealer & know it just doesn't quite look right for what we kow & expect it to do - a bit like a rock dwelling c*****d in a bare tank where it is dazed & confused.

If it appears to be "moody" in good water, there may be something not visible, causing a problem.

I do wish you all the best - keep us posted on your progress.

thanks.. i've been checking water parameters before and after water changes and they seems ok: water parameters are: ammonia - 0 , nitrite - 0 , nitrate - 10 , ph - 7.4

its doesn't seem to be moping around.. its usually swimming in the current of the powerhead i provide or in the output of the filter..

[MatsP]

Swimming in the current may indicate that it is indeed something wrong with the water (low oxygen or fish isn't capable of using the oxygen as well as it should).

I would, just to be sure, take some water to the LFS and have them tell you the NUMBERS for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate (not just the "OK" or "BAD" since we all have our own idea of what is "ok" and what isn't, and the LFS may well have a different standard than you or I).

--
Mats

[racoll]

Sounds obvious, but have you checked your heater is working?

A broken (i.e. off) heater could easily account for the behaviour.

If it isn't broken, maybe upping the temp a bit would stimulate its hunger. This is providing you don't suspect the problem is a lack of oxygen due to say nitrite poisoning.

[Ramon]

I have been keeping gulpers for a little over three years now. There are eight 7-8 inch fish in a 125 gallon tank. When I first got these cats, they would take food frequently but after several months, I noticed that they would only accept food every three to four weeks so they are now fed around once a month. They all appear to be healthy and I find them to be very hardy fish.

I frequently find them hanging out in the power filter outlet and I think they just like the current.

If your fish appears healthy, then I would just observe him over the next week or two.

Increasing the water temperature is not a bad idea.

[kidman]

Swimming in the current may indicate that it is indeed something wrong with the water (low oxygen or fish isn't capable of using the oxygen as well as it should).

I would, just to be sure, take some water to the LFS and have them tell you the NUMBERS for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate (not just the "OK" or "BAD" since we all have our own idea of what is "ok" and what isn't, and the LFS may well have a different standard than you or I).

--
Mats

lfs here in manila actually do not have their own water test kits i'm sorry to say..

i have mine and have had a reading of ammonia = 0, nitrite = 0, nitrate = 10 on 2 different branded test kits so i don't think there is any problem with the water.. also it was acting this way ever since i got it and it was eating normally for the 1st 2-3 weeks..

[kidman]

Sounds obvious, but have you checked your heater is working?

A broken (i.e. off) heater could easily account for the behaviour.

If it isn't broken, maybe upping the temp a bit would stimulate its hunger. This is providing you don't suspect the problem is a lack of oxygen due to say nitrite poisoning.

i'm from manila so we really don't need to use heaters.. also nitrite is zero in my readings..

[kidman]

I have been keeping gulpers for a little over three years now. There are eight 7-8 inch fish in a 125 gallon tank. When I first got these cats, they would take food frequently but after several months, I noticed that they would only accept food every three to four weeks so they are now fed around once a month. They all appear to be healthy and I find them to be very hardy fish.

I frequently find them hanging out in the power filter outlet and I think they just like the current.

If your fish appears healthy, then I would just observe him over the next week or two.

Increasing the water temperature is not a bad idea.

thanks.. hopefully its is "normal" behavior for them to have these long fasting periods..

although, it does look like its interested with the food as it swims up and takes what i'm hand feeding it.. only it spits it out after a couple of seconds like it doesn't like the taste.. i've tried all the foods i've got, shrimp, mussels, anchovies, fish fillets, feeders.. i've also put in tankmates (silver dollars) just incase he wants to take them down.. now i'm trying out live brine shrimps as i've been told in the other forum that they are known to filter feed at times ..

[daniel60]

Look out for parasites.
My three small gulpers stopped eating after a few weeks, and then I discovered lice on them. I removed the lice, but the gulpers didn't start eating. It took three months for them to get better. I guess they had some nasty gill parasite - the medicin that eventually worked was Parazin-P (against lice, gill maggots & anchor worms in ponds).

[Marc van Arc]

Any news?

[kidman]

update: after about a month of not eating.. i decided to try to treat with an anti-parasite (ocean free) and added a heater.. after a week of treatment my gulper finally ate and has regained her appetite like nothing ever happened.. so back to normal and eating from my hand..

conclusions:
1. she had a parasitic infection and after treatment, regained her normal appetite
2. appetite was increased due increase in temperature of the tank (heater) and there was no parasitic infection
3. gulpers just have periods of fasting and is their normal behavior

i'm actually leaning towards #3. this is because a lot of gulper keepers have shared that they have experienced the same thing, their gulpers refusing to eat for a period of time and will regain their normal appetite after this period..

what do you guys think?

[racoll]

Great to hear your gulper is back to good health.

I would agree with your conclusions. Usually things are caused by more than one factor.

This thread will be very valuable to other keepers of

Asterophysus

who experience the same problems.