PlanetCatfish.com

A three-part update. Part one deals with PETsMART; part two with help we need; and part three with activities being initiated over the next few weeks.

1. The review process at PETsMART has become very detailed. PETsMART and NCIAC.net will continue to exchange information and thoughts about the accuracy of the content through the next several weeks.

To date we can say the fish sizes have shown an incredible change. The information we have seen accurately describes the species being sold. Great job PETsMArt! It is something that PETsMART should be recognized for.

A near universal clarification of tank sizes required has occurred. Sizes have been increased to more accurately represent long term needs. In about 1/2 of the instances there is little if any room for disagreement. In the other instances the sizes are typically larger than what exists on current signage--but could still be subjected to a more careful scrutiny by PETsMART. It is our hope that many of the suggested tank sizes are increased.

Use of ?Salt? has yet to be suggested as a requirement for any species reviewed (that is a change).

The people involved with NCIAC.net that have seen the data, reviewed it, and sent back suggestions for improvement are generally encouraged by the results to date. Parts of the process could drag into March.

We have to honor corporate confidentiality of this information. Final decisions have not yet been made. As we are able to share detailed information we will.

2. Which brings us to stuff to do--lol. Next up are PetCo, Petland and Walmart. We have some data for each of these retailers. Nothing as comprehensive as what were able to assemble for PETsMART. We need help getting POP Signage data for these companies. Hopefully people here and other sites will once again pitch into the effort and gather data. Our format can be seen at http://www.noclownsinacube.net/fish_chart.html. Copies of the spreadsheet that drove that page can be downloaded from a link at the bottom of the chart--feel free to use our spreadsheet. Any keystroking and re-entry we can avoid is appreciated. This time you can win a yet to be designed NCIAC.net T-Shirt?lol.

Hopefully hobbyists help out again. We need to have accurate and comprehensive information to utilize during letter writing and e.mail efforts. We also need to have that information during direct conversation with the companies. Help with this will assist both you other hobbyists in getting a good baseline of information to utilize in the practice of Responsible Husbandry.

3. PetCo. We do have enough data to begin our efforts there. We need more to be as accurate as possible. Within the next 10-14 days we will once again post suggestions that specific types of correspondence be prepared and snail mailed or e-mailed. Hopefully we can once again generate e.mails and letters evidencing the concern shared by the hobbyist market.

Hope you all have a Happy and Successful New Year.

sully

You will see revisions to our site to reflect the progress being made in our attempt to work with retailers. It will take us a week to get those changes made?they will include sample letters you could use in our shared effort.

and, the effort for Accuracy In Information is spreading to German language boards. We will be assisting an individual in Europe that shares our concern for information provided to hobbyists by retailers.

plus, for those of you across the big pond; more specidficlly in England, you will slowly begin to see our goofy logo on a poster (developed by Martin Thoene at LOL) discussing the appropriate care of Clown Loaches.

The Clown Loach Care poster is available at no charge to retailers (and hobbyists) in a printable PDF format. It is in English, Dutch, German, and Italian.

http://www.noclownsinacube.net/forum/in ... 24.new#new

Round 2 is beginning. lol. As we examine information with other retailers some common problems seem to exist. Here is a letter recently mailed to PETCO. It once again address a very common theme--accuracy of information. We ask hobbyists to join us in sending letters and e.mails to discuss the importance of information and its relationship to the practice of Responsible Husbandry.
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1/31/07

Mr. Jim Myers
Chief Executive Officer
PETCO Animal Supplies, Inc.
9125 Rehco Road
San Diego, CA 92121

Dear Mr. Myers,
I am a fishkeeper. I have shopped your stores for many years. More recently I began to study the species-specific information contained in your Point-Of-Purchase Signage. Within the past several weeks I have also scrutinized the information provided at corporate web site.

During the 4th quarter of 2006 an organization of fishkeeping hobbyists was born. Our focus is to encourage retailers like PETCO to provide information that accurately describes the nature, origin, and characteristics of fish sold. We believe hobbyists will be able to more adequately practice responsible husbandry with better information. Responsible Husbandry. Humane Treatment. These are the two very simple and fundamental goals that underpin our effort. They are two simple goals that PETCO seemingly embraces as evidenced by the PETCO Foundation.

An interesting disparity exists between the Point-Of-Purchase Signage and On-Line information. In-store there is no mention of tank sizes required for the species sold. On-line tank size suggestions are made. The size of an aquarium is one of the most important elements required for the practice of responsible husbandry. The importance of tank size is obviously recognized. It is significant enough to publish on-line. It should be considered important enough to include with in-store advertising.

Some of the suggested tank sizes are interesting. The tank size suggested for the Tiger Barb at your site is 10-gallons. Many authoritative resources suggest something significantly larger. In fact ?Aquarium Fish? by Schleiwen suggests a tank of at least 32?. The suggestion by one of your sources of fish information is significantly larger than the size advertised. There are other instances of this issue.

On-line descriptions of environments conducive to the species being sold are provided. ?Hiding Spots? is a phrase utilized in many of the descriptions. The same phrase is used to describe a parameter for plant dwelling fish as with cave dwelling fish. Yet, the definition of hiding spot for each is radically different. Indeed, a ?hiding spot? utilized by one will often be a ?hiding spot? shunned by the other. Based upon the information provided your customers may mistakenly believe they are providing a suitable environment for the fish purchased at PETCO when they are in actuality not meeting the needs of the species purchased at all.

Fish size. In-store and on-line information is sometimes contradictory. For example, the Hypostomus plecostomus is listed as a 4?-12? fish at one brick and mortar location. At another store it is listed as an 18" species. On-line it is a 24? fish. Only one can be correct. Other instances of this situation exist.

Jim, it is my hope that PETCO examines POP signage and on-line advertising to assure consistency and accuracy. Responsible Husbandry and Humane Treatment start at a store. Neither can be practiced by hobbyists without accurate information.

Respectfully,

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The e.mail method for PETCO is form based at their website. The link to this form is:

http://www.petco.com/petco_Page_PC_cont ... -_-contact

e.mail or snail mail. please help us voice our concerns with your participation.

Thanks,
sully

ps. We have a topic in the public area of our message board that we are hoping for some input. It is a question concerning consistency of information being presented. We would love to know what you think about the subject.

http://www.noclownsinacube.net/forum/in ... opic=132.0

We seemed to have wrapped up our end of things earlier this week. Anything left to do is firmly in the hands of PETsMART.

Here is a copy of the e.mail sent summarizing where we are with the review process.

Nick,
I have enjoyed the process of the review. Albeit longer than either of us expected. The people at No Clowns In A Cube.net appreciate the willingness exhibited by PETsMART to accept input from the hobbyist community. We appreciate that the information from many "authoritative resources" was examined.

I spent several hours last evening perusing the responses this discussion has generated at on-line fishkeeping communities across the web. I wanted to be certain the basics of the discussion were reviewed so that I did not lose sight of hobbyist concerns on a generalized basis as the details of species-specific information were reviewed.

1). Point-Of-Origin: A topic that was originally discussed during our e.mails and conversations. The use of Plannogram information on in-store signage is often misunderstood. In several instances it is often misleading. An easy fix that was discussed was the use of "New World" to define the North American, Central American, and South American species often clumped under the existing "South American" definition. And, the movement of obvious South American or Central American species from the "Tropical Community" tag into this category would be helpful.

And, a species that clearly demonstrates the potential misunderstanding by a consumer would be the Carinotetraodon travancoricus as a Tropical Community fish when it is indeed best suited for a species specific tank.

Or, a change that would not destroy the use of plan-o-gram information would be the simple inclusion of an additional "Species Origination" line of copy. A line that is used by many of your competitors.

Our early conversations led me to believe this issue would be rectified. Our discussion Wednesday of this week left me in doubt.

2). Species Size: As discussed, if the changes you have noted during the exchange of information are implemented there will be a near universal correction of the problem. The obvious exceptions have been discussed and noted.

3) Tank Size: Dramatic changes have been seen in your revised data. All of which are positive. There is still a surprising contradiction between your sizes (once again, substantially larger tank sizes are now being used by PETsMART) and those listed by the source Linda Scott mentioned in her e.mails to hobbyists as the reference PETsMART utilizes as the basis for Point-Of-Purchase signage data for a limited number of species.

Hopefully you will take one last look at the tank sizes and upgrade many of them.

At worst we hope that a line of copy to the point that as the fish grows to "Adult" sizes a larger tank is required. Especially in those cases the stated length of the fish (based upon authoritative resources) equals or exceeds the depth of the suggested tank front to back. A size derived from exterior dimensions.

The Betta issue is a discussion that is more wide ranging than PETsMART. As a result, in our minds, it is unfair to target specifically to PETsMART.

4). Suitability of species sold: The obvious species is the Pangasius Sutchii. As we review your suggestions of species size and tank size we still note a severe departure from that data provided by recognized "authoritative resources". We question how suitable the species can be for a mass merchandiser to sell if the mass merchandiser believes their data is a better representation than that provided by the scientific community. More specific concern is created when the representations of sizes still remain far smaller than documented reality. Yes, That fish will not grow to its potential size in the confines of the tank suggested. We question whether responsible husbandry and humane treatment is being actively promoted through this type of sales approach.

5). Diet and Décor: Obviously mostly in order.

6). Tank Strata. In some instances it is different than the "authoritative resources' discuss. In other instances we have difficulty understanding where the information was derived. And, as we discussed so many factors are involved in that definition that a captive (tank) environment will rarely if ever reflect that behavior. In many instances the depth of the water column in home aquaria is many meters less than the depth of the strata as seen in native habitats--let alone the total depth of the water column found in native habitats. Are the species being sold with this line of information going to live up to the representation made in home aquaria? Are false expectations being set-up in the mind of the consumer?

It goes back to one of original points of information that, while not inaccurate, becomes very confusing when utilized out of context.

7). Aquarium Salt as a "Required" item. I am gratified to see it nearly gone from signage. I understand your perspective on others. Hopefully you can understand why we will question the use of "Aquarium Salt Required" for the remaining species. Especially as it relates to the Leporinus Fasciatus.

Nick, once again, thank-you for the time you took to discuss the issues with us. And, thank-you for the review of the information we provided.

Respectfully,
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we will post the final result at our site when possible. don't forget to send PETCO e.mails

sully,
What is the time-frame for the change in the signage at PetSmarts?
Amanda

Many people have been receiving a response to the e.mails and letters being sent to PETCO. In case you have not yet seen one here it is:
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Thank you for contacting PETCO.com. We have received numerous emails with similar content and appreciate hearing your thoughts & concerns.

In regards to your concern regarding the discrepancy in the sizes listed for a specific species of fish, you are correct. The discrepancy comes from the way we categorize the sizes. Our photo tags in the stores list the ?average? size the species is known to achieve. Our online customers tend to be the hobbyist and usually have better luck in achieving the maximum size the species is known to achieve. Thus we have categorized our sizes online as ?adult? and not ?average?. We will consider changing the designation to ?maximum? size versus ?adult? size online so as to help avoid further confusion.

Once again, thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention.

Sincerely,

Alexis N.
Senior Customer Relations Coordinator

At PETCO, Animals Always Come First... Our People Make it Happen!
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We are asking people to respond by sending letters to PETCO. Here's mine.
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02/24/07

Mr. Jim Myers
Chief Executive Officer
PETCO Animal Supplies, Inc.
9125 Rehco Road
San Diego, CA 92121

Dear Mr. Myers,
We appreciate the e.mail Alexi N. sent in reply to our letters and e.mails voicing concern over PETCO Point-Of-Purchase signage and on-line advertising. Allowing customers and prospective buyers to gain a better understanding of your advertising practices is helpful. At the same time the understanding gained does cause concern. And, makes one wonder about the role of advertising in the practice of responsible husbandry and the humane and ethical treatment of the fish sold to consumers.

The discussion of sizes by Alexis is disturbing. Where does your marketing department derive the "average size" known to be achieved? One needs to go no further than one of the "authoritative resources" cited on your website to find conflicts in the information PETCO provides vs. the information published by Schleiwen.

To differentiate the size a fish is likely to achieve by customer segment is troublesome. That is a reflection of the nature and characteristics of the buyer--not the fish being sold. Descriptions of an Afgan Hound, German Shepard, Boxer, or any other breed of dog does not have one size if properly fed, housed and exercised and then another for an ill kept, poorly cared for specimen.

Alexis notes that experienced fishkeepers have been luckier in achieving a fish size that is consistent with the true nature and characteristic of the species as found in the wild. It has nothing to do with luck. It has everything to do with providing appropriate aquatic environments for the fish we keep. It is a result of ethical treatment and the practice of responsible husbandry of life fish.

Alexis failed to address other points made in our original correspondence. One of which being the conflict of information that exists store to store. Your Point-Of--Purchase signage for the same species sold varies between store locations. If it were right in one spot wouldn?t it make sense for it to be accurate in all locations. Or do fish grow to different sizes based upon different neighborhoods and cities as well as by customer segment?

We have accumulated data for the species sold by PETCO from a number of recognized, authoritative resources. At least one of those sources is the same as that utilized by PETCO. We see significantly different sizes of fish and see much less confusion in the descriptions of environments required. We ask PETCO to review the data they provide on their Point-Of-Purchase signage, on-line, and in other advertising materials. It is our hope that PETCO revises the information provided to more closely reflect the true nature and characteristics of the fish sold. Responsible husbandry starts with accurate information. Accurate information starts with the retailer.


Respectfully
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Hopefully everybody sends those e.mails and letters. The corporate e.mail is a form based system that can be found at this address: http://www.petco.com/petco_Page_PC_cont ... -_-contact

Or send a letter snail mail. Use the one above or create your own.

Thanks,
sully

RE PETsMART signs. I imagine that the first of the signs will be seen at the new stores. then spread to older stores. given production cycles my bet is May sometime. If we don't start seeing them then it will be time to do a follow-up call and maybe some more e.mails--lol. It is a huge expense for them. And, those kinds print jobs never move fast. Too expensive to fis mistakes.

Just a quick note to let everyone know that while we have not been as visible we have been active.

For those of you that have been curious about revisions made by PETsMART the new signage should have begun to show up in some stores. How they are rolling it out is a different discussion, which will be talked about soon.

Here is a link to a quick and dirty spreadsheet presentation at No Clowns In A Cube.net. We have been playing with a database presentation of the data--it will be neat and it will be soon.

http://www.noclownsinacube.net/fish_chart.html

There are two types of PETsMART entries. One is simply PETsMART Revision. In instances the PETsMART line is indeed a Revision. Our data was sufficiently incomplete--or absent--that we utilized the most recent data without differentiating between the previous and current iterations.

You will also notice the inclusion of data from a couple of the web based and catalog retailers. At the same time you will also see the beginnings of the inclusion of data from "Pet Connection Mfg". Pet Connection Mfg is the company that provides those incredibly incomplete--and often inaccurate signs for the lfs market.

We have significantly more species form both the retailers and Pet Connection Mfg to add. We want to be as accurate and thorough as possible so it will take another 30-60 days to get a more comprehensive look at the retail market. It is a great beginning.

We will be resuming web-based efforts asking for letters very soon. We needed to back-up a bit and get better organized. Thanks for all your support so far--we will need much more in the future.

sully

PS. Sorry for the link. There is just no other way for the information to be easily presented. Site admins/mods please send us a 468 x 60 banner for inclusion in our banner program?it is free?lol.

An update ?it seems to be the week for those.

We tried a slightly different approach with PETCO. We combined the public letter writing campaign, which so many of you participated in, with behind the scenes letter writing, phone calls and e.mails. In part a different tactic to make sure everyone does not burn out sending letters, in part to accommodate the schedules of people atNCIAC.net (all volunteer groups are tough?lol).

We received an e.mail from PETCO today that is very encouraging. Here is the PETCO response.

Tom,

We would be glad to work with you. What do you have in mind?

Thanks,

Tom

Thomas M. Edling, DVM, MSpVM
Director, Veterinary Medicine
PETCO Animal Supplies, Inc.

"At PETCO Animals Always Come First, and Our People Make it Happen" Happen"

Nominal editing of phones numbers has occurred.

The information is not changed yet. Yet, it is an indication of openness and willingness to examine change. As always, we will keep the hobbyists that have supported our efforts up to date.

PETCO is to be commended for their response. All of you should be commended for your support. Nothing happens without the fishkeepers that make this hobby such a great pursuit.

Thanks!

sully