I'm new to this forum but like what I see. I'm an admin at Badman's Tropical Fish and wanted to spread the word about something.
I have an issue - it is incorrect, species-specific information being delivered to hobbyists by retailers. Information typically provided by retailers that should know better to hobbyists that don't. It is information delivered to hobbyists that rely on retailers to provide honest, accurate information about the fish they sell.
I wander a number of forums. I see, like most of us do from time to time, the endless discussions that get into LFS or mass merchandiser bashing. Over the years I began to tune them out - even avoid them altogether. I always thought if it bugs you that much - do something productive - let's not just complain to ourselves.
I recently stumbled into a couple of those discussions elsewhere by accident. I am a long time member at one of the sites where I saw the bashing. I knew the person bashing well enough that I shared a letter I had sent to PetSmart a couple of days earlier. Only the second time in my life I had penned that type of letter - the first time dealing with the fish-keeping hobby.
The response was interesting. Never really expected it. As I said to an online friend, had I expected the letter to be anything other than a single "angry man" letter that mass merchandisers receive I would have written it in an entirely different fashion and with an entirely different style. But, since it was a single "angry man" letter it is what was sent.
It turns out that a number of fish-keepers from a number of other sites liked what they saw. And thought they too could do the same. I guess it turns out that fish folk do want better.
Here is that letter:
[quote]Mr. Kenneth T. Hall
Sr. Vice President, Merchandising
PetSmart, Inc.
19601 North 27th Avenue
Phoenix, AZ 85027
Dear Mr. Hall,
I visited your website this morning and saw your engaging photo with â??Georgeâ?
Accuracy In Information - Help a good cause!
I'm going to post a copy of a message I've posted at several other sites with members that have been somewhat skeptical (and maybe help clear up any questions people who haven't spoken up yet may have). Some of this is repetive (it was copy/pasted together after all). Here goes:
Right now the only retailer we as a group are focused on is PetSmart. There has to be a starting point. Don't want to get things out of hand right off the bat.
There is a group of about 15 people working on getting some activities planned and organized. Members of the group come from several of the on-line forums. I am sure some of the people here have seen the topic posted elsewhere.
A fairly typical set of questions have been:
"Why PetSmart?" Because they are obviously a company that cares. They are obviously a company that strives to keep tanks clean and livestock as healthy as possible in the store environment. They are obviously a company committed to promoting responsible pet husbandry (90% of their charity dollars are directly returned to pet welfare). They are a national presence. They are a leader in the market.
I have been reminded of one of PetSmart's competitors making a comment years ago along the lines of "we are here to sell pets, not cure them" (not an exact quote). PetSmart obviously realizes the need for the opposite approach. Just look at the Banefield brand of vets in their stores.
"Why not all retailers?" If you get a leader to embrace the concept others will follow. There is a competetive advantage for PetSmart to set the pace. And, from a pragmatic view they are convenient. It is far easier to effect a change with a single retailer than it is to effect an industry wide change. It is the simple one-step-at-time philosophy. Basically crawl, walk, run. A lot of energy and effort can be expended chasing after all the national, regional, and local stores. Flailing madly about will be a waste of much of that. Focused effort and energy holds a better chance of positive results.
And, since responsible husbandry starts with the aquarium we have and how it is stocked POP information is the baseline for all the other issues. Basically it is an approach that starts with step one of fish care.
At the same time it recognizes that every one of us will make the choice on how to stock a tank. We have responsibilities of our own as fish-keepers practicing responsible husbandry. The only way people can learn to be responsible is through the use of accurate information. Some of which is the responsibility of a company to provide. Some of which is the responsibility of fish-keepers to seek out.
"What can sending letters accomplish?" Letters are a first step, and a tiny step. A small group of fish-keepers has assembled on a very private forum to discuss the best ways to attack the issue. It will expand significantly beyond the few forums where the letters are being shared (and whose members are probably already getting bored with me) in an attempt to engage clubs, organizations, and the hobby media in the discussion.
Some interesting offers to help out have been received. Hopefully they pan out. Our three biggest problems right now:
- Assembling a panel of volunteer experts to review signage (the content or actual photos of which are being assembled from cities across the country). I can use fishbase.org as my touchstone. I don't have the credentials though to actually endorse or condemn any changes which may occur. I have just kept fish for a while.
- Letters. As many as possible. They serve to get attention. and they will serve to keep the issue alive for at least one retailer (have to take it a step at a time) as a complement to other publicity tools.
- Additional visiblity. Next week (hopefully) we will begin to work the media side of the hobby. At least pet media from the industry and consumer side. It is a slow process, being taken an element at a time.
This is getting long winded, as many of my posts do. Like I said, about 15 people are planing and organizing several areas of activity that are required to give this effort a realistic chance of success. We will keep people informed. But, nothing we do will work without your support and help.
All we ask is you take a few minutes to send an e-mail or snail mail. Write a letter (even copy one of the above). We want to keep the message on target. We hope you agree with the message and the approach.
Remember PetSmart is an excellent organization. Trying to do what is right. We are just trying to nicely help them realize something needs a change.
Right now the only retailer we as a group are focused on is PetSmart. There has to be a starting point. Don't want to get things out of hand right off the bat.
There is a group of about 15 people working on getting some activities planned and organized. Members of the group come from several of the on-line forums. I am sure some of the people here have seen the topic posted elsewhere.
A fairly typical set of questions have been:
"Why PetSmart?" Because they are obviously a company that cares. They are obviously a company that strives to keep tanks clean and livestock as healthy as possible in the store environment. They are obviously a company committed to promoting responsible pet husbandry (90% of their charity dollars are directly returned to pet welfare). They are a national presence. They are a leader in the market.
I have been reminded of one of PetSmart's competitors making a comment years ago along the lines of "we are here to sell pets, not cure them" (not an exact quote). PetSmart obviously realizes the need for the opposite approach. Just look at the Banefield brand of vets in their stores.
"Why not all retailers?" If you get a leader to embrace the concept others will follow. There is a competetive advantage for PetSmart to set the pace. And, from a pragmatic view they are convenient. It is far easier to effect a change with a single retailer than it is to effect an industry wide change. It is the simple one-step-at-time philosophy. Basically crawl, walk, run. A lot of energy and effort can be expended chasing after all the national, regional, and local stores. Flailing madly about will be a waste of much of that. Focused effort and energy holds a better chance of positive results.
And, since responsible husbandry starts with the aquarium we have and how it is stocked POP information is the baseline for all the other issues. Basically it is an approach that starts with step one of fish care.
At the same time it recognizes that every one of us will make the choice on how to stock a tank. We have responsibilities of our own as fish-keepers practicing responsible husbandry. The only way people can learn to be responsible is through the use of accurate information. Some of which is the responsibility of a company to provide. Some of which is the responsibility of fish-keepers to seek out.
"What can sending letters accomplish?" Letters are a first step, and a tiny step. A small group of fish-keepers has assembled on a very private forum to discuss the best ways to attack the issue. It will expand significantly beyond the few forums where the letters are being shared (and whose members are probably already getting bored with me) in an attempt to engage clubs, organizations, and the hobby media in the discussion.
Some interesting offers to help out have been received. Hopefully they pan out. Our three biggest problems right now:
- Assembling a panel of volunteer experts to review signage (the content or actual photos of which are being assembled from cities across the country). I can use fishbase.org as my touchstone. I don't have the credentials though to actually endorse or condemn any changes which may occur. I have just kept fish for a while.
- Letters. As many as possible. They serve to get attention. and they will serve to keep the issue alive for at least one retailer (have to take it a step at a time) as a complement to other publicity tools.
- Additional visiblity. Next week (hopefully) we will begin to work the media side of the hobby. At least pet media from the industry and consumer side. It is a slow process, being taken an element at a time.
This is getting long winded, as many of my posts do. Like I said, about 15 people are planing and organizing several areas of activity that are required to give this effort a realistic chance of success. We will keep people informed. But, nothing we do will work without your support and help.
All we ask is you take a few minutes to send an e-mail or snail mail. Write a letter (even copy one of the above). We want to keep the message on target. We hope you agree with the message and the approach.
Remember PetSmart is an excellent organization. Trying to do what is right. We are just trying to nicely help them realize something needs a change.
Well, the site finally launched. We've been working quite a bit on it to get something decent to start with. Here's the URL once again:
http://www.noclownsinacube.net/
Take a look around and please keep sending those letters.
http://www.noclownsinacube.net/
Take a look around and please keep sending those letters.
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PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn
- Posts: 90
- Joined: 22 Jan 2006, 18:26
- Location 1: Wales UK
whole heartedly agree,
though dont have petsmart in the UK there is pets at home though. So i suppose thats who i'd write to.
1 thought for you to consider. try emailing a load of the big fish magazines I'm sending a link to your site to Practical fishkeeping magazine.
though dont have petsmart in the UK there is pets at home though. So i suppose thats who i'd write to.
1 thought for you to consider. try emailing a load of the big fish magazines I'm sending a link to your site to Practical fishkeeping magazine.
My tanks
50gallon SA tank
45gallon Mbuna tank
30gallon Mbuna tank
10gallon mbuna fry tank (4 of these)
7gallon SA tank
50gallon SA tank
45gallon Mbuna tank
30gallon Mbuna tank
10gallon mbuna fry tank (4 of these)
7gallon SA tank
An interesting reaction has been voiced on other boards, in e.mails, and in chats.
Some people are not sure if they agree with the letter writing to PetSmart. Not because they disagree with accurate information concept. Rather as a matter of focus.
The people are asking why not the entire population of mass merchandisers, regional chains, and the mom and pops? Why limit it to POP Signage? Why not address Painted Fish, Hybrids, pH up and down products, the over use of meds created by easy availability, and the other "useless" products sold to new and less well informed hobbyists?
A couple of people, serious minded fishkeepers, have asked why not push for a much bigger goal, the elimination of mass merchandisers as resellers of fish?
The goal of the "Accuracy In Information" push, for me, goes well beyond POP Signage. My goal is that all retailers are required to provide accurate information about the fish and all the products they sell. But, to achieve success and attainment of goals you have to figure out the steps required to realize them.
A lot of us hear the rhetoric spouted by the sports rookies that are taken with early picks on "draft day" in professional sports. We hear one kid tell how he is not only going to take his team to the championship game, but he is going to score the winning points--usually in the last seconds of the game. Then we here other rookies say how grateful they are just to be drafted. Then express their commitment to just making the team and becoming a good team mate.
Almost overnight it seems the championship game is being played. Nowhere to be found is the guy with all the hype. Instead it is the guy that was drafted and just committed himself to the small first step scoring the winning points as the clock expires.
Both of the guys picked early in the draft had the same goal. Both had a big dream. One understood how to achieve it. Small steps at a time.
There could be a push to send letters to every retailer. With a lot of messages about how they sell to the public. That is what has been happening for years. Hobbyist's get ticked off, concerned, or upset. They pen a letter, vent theri frustration, and that is the last of it.
A lot of people have the goal.
A few have taken a step to realize that goal.
Very few will realize success.
The goal is "Accuracy In Information" at all retail locations. Letters to a single retailer is a tool to help achieve visibility hobby wide. It is a tool to gain the attention of the largest, most responsible, Pet retailer in the trade. Without someone paying attention, and then thinking about the issue--nothing will happen. We will have the same situation. This is not an attack on a retailer. This is an effort to help them see that there is a fundamental error in the materials they utilize. An error most likely shared across an industry.
If we can help the leader see the mistake--or share with us why it is not a mistake--then real change occurs. Once change is accomplished with a single retailer the others become easier to educate. Other retailers will be more open to making what fishkeepers see as required change. The push for sending letters to PetSmart is not an attack. It is a campaign to help an industry leader realize the concerns of its' customer base. And to realize the concerns of fishkeepers as an entire community.
Hopefully you will join a growing community of fishkeepers taking the first, small, step to the realization of of common goals.
Don't think that the letters to PetSmart are the last letters you will be asked to send. Think of them as the first of many as each of us in the hobby helps institute responsible retail trade practices.
Send a letter. Please.
Keep it positive, and factual. This is an effort to work with--not against--a company
Some people are not sure if they agree with the letter writing to PetSmart. Not because they disagree with accurate information concept. Rather as a matter of focus.
The people are asking why not the entire population of mass merchandisers, regional chains, and the mom and pops? Why limit it to POP Signage? Why not address Painted Fish, Hybrids, pH up and down products, the over use of meds created by easy availability, and the other "useless" products sold to new and less well informed hobbyists?
A couple of people, serious minded fishkeepers, have asked why not push for a much bigger goal, the elimination of mass merchandisers as resellers of fish?
The goal of the "Accuracy In Information" push, for me, goes well beyond POP Signage. My goal is that all retailers are required to provide accurate information about the fish and all the products they sell. But, to achieve success and attainment of goals you have to figure out the steps required to realize them.
A lot of us hear the rhetoric spouted by the sports rookies that are taken with early picks on "draft day" in professional sports. We hear one kid tell how he is not only going to take his team to the championship game, but he is going to score the winning points--usually in the last seconds of the game. Then we here other rookies say how grateful they are just to be drafted. Then express their commitment to just making the team and becoming a good team mate.
Almost overnight it seems the championship game is being played. Nowhere to be found is the guy with all the hype. Instead it is the guy that was drafted and just committed himself to the small first step scoring the winning points as the clock expires.
Both of the guys picked early in the draft had the same goal. Both had a big dream. One understood how to achieve it. Small steps at a time.
There could be a push to send letters to every retailer. With a lot of messages about how they sell to the public. That is what has been happening for years. Hobbyist's get ticked off, concerned, or upset. They pen a letter, vent theri frustration, and that is the last of it.
A lot of people have the goal.
A few have taken a step to realize that goal.
Very few will realize success.
The goal is "Accuracy In Information" at all retail locations. Letters to a single retailer is a tool to help achieve visibility hobby wide. It is a tool to gain the attention of the largest, most responsible, Pet retailer in the trade. Without someone paying attention, and then thinking about the issue--nothing will happen. We will have the same situation. This is not an attack on a retailer. This is an effort to help them see that there is a fundamental error in the materials they utilize. An error most likely shared across an industry.
If we can help the leader see the mistake--or share with us why it is not a mistake--then real change occurs. Once change is accomplished with a single retailer the others become easier to educate. Other retailers will be more open to making what fishkeepers see as required change. The push for sending letters to PetSmart is not an attack. It is a campaign to help an industry leader realize the concerns of its' customer base. And to realize the concerns of fishkeepers as an entire community.
Hopefully you will join a growing community of fishkeepers taking the first, small, step to the realization of of common goals.
Don't think that the letters to PetSmart are the last letters you will be asked to send. Think of them as the first of many as each of us in the hobby helps institute responsible retail trade practices.
Send a letter. Please.
Keep it positive, and factual. This is an effort to work with--not against--a company
We've finished putting together an on-line communities page with a list of all the sites that are up to this point involved in the Accuracy In Information campaign. It's a great list.
Right now we're putting together a discussion forum that will focus exclusively on retail trade practices relating to fish-keeping. We will be inviting all the retailers to join the forum so that it is an even-handed approach. Our goal is not to pillory retailers, especially PetSmart. PetSmart does so many positive things. Perhaps if we can get consumers and retailers together on neutral ground something good can come out of it. Not only in regard to POP signage, but to issues like appropriate community tank setups, staff education, hybrid and painted/dyed fish, over use and improper use of medications as a result of availability.....the list is long.
Accuracy in information is about fish welfare, appropriate treatment, and responsible husbandry. We hope PetSmart helps us by taking the lead in the retail market.
Please send a letter if you haven't, and if you have thank you, and keep sending them.
Right now we're putting together a discussion forum that will focus exclusively on retail trade practices relating to fish-keeping. We will be inviting all the retailers to join the forum so that it is an even-handed approach. Our goal is not to pillory retailers, especially PetSmart. PetSmart does so many positive things. Perhaps if we can get consumers and retailers together on neutral ground something good can come out of it. Not only in regard to POP signage, but to issues like appropriate community tank setups, staff education, hybrid and painted/dyed fish, over use and improper use of medications as a result of availability.....the list is long.
Accuracy in information is about fish welfare, appropriate treatment, and responsible husbandry. We hope PetSmart helps us by taking the lead in the retail market.
Please send a letter if you haven't, and if you have thank you, and keep sending them.
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bronzefry
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It's also important to note that there are exceptions. There are individual locations of the "big-box" retailers that have exceptionally clean tanks with no diseased or dying fish. I believe it comes down to store-level management. When you see a fish area that is well managed in one of these stores, it is important to write a letter to tell the corporate level to keep the management team intact. I can tell you it is amazing, for both of the large chains: you can go to one store that is incredibly well run; 10 miles away is a store from the same chain that is poorly managed.
Amanda
Amanda
Over 10,000 hits on this and similar threads over the past several weeks. People say they are even sending letters--lol. And, getting a standard reply. So, here is the letter of the week we are hoping people e.mail or send via snail mail.
-----------------------------------
Mr. Kenneth T. Hall
Sr. Vice President, Merchandising
PetSmart, Inc.
19601 North 27th Avenue
Phoenix, AZ 85027
RE: Accuracy In Information
Dear Mr. Hall,
I am aware of the PetSmart reply to recent correspondence discussing Responsible Husbandry and Humane Treatment as they relate to fish. I also understand the reply has been sent to more than one of the individuals sending letters. The reply is interesting,
â??â?¦your concerns have been brought to the attention of our Management Team. They periodically review our signage and care guide information and will make changes as appropriate on the next review.â?
-----------------------------------
Mr. Kenneth T. Hall
Sr. Vice President, Merchandising
PetSmart, Inc.
19601 North 27th Avenue
Phoenix, AZ 85027
RE: Accuracy In Information
Dear Mr. Hall,
I am aware of the PetSmart reply to recent correspondence discussing Responsible Husbandry and Humane Treatment as they relate to fish. I also understand the reply has been sent to more than one of the individuals sending letters. The reply is interesting,
â??â?¦your concerns have been brought to the attention of our Management Team. They periodically review our signage and care guide information and will make changes as appropriate on the next review.â?
There are times I feel like the threads scattered about the web are becoming mini blogs. But, I think it is important to keep reinforcing the message that the Accuracy In Information campaign is sending. So, hopefully you read this post, go back to the letter above and send one via e.mail or snail mail.
One of the people actively involved in the Accuracy in Information issue found something on the Point-Of-Purchase signage that fascinates me. And, it reinforces, at least in my mind, the value of the approach http://www.noclownsinacube.net is taking. The item was an 800 number. The number does not lead back to PetSmart. Rather, it leads to a supplier of tags.
Buying from a third party does not relieve a retailer of responsibility for the information contained. The odds of hobbyists having any influence with someone we do not buy from are nil. The third party does not need to keep the ultimate consumer of the product advertised happy. All they need to do is keep their customers satisfied. Their customers being the retailers. By voicing our concerns to a specific retailer we can create an awareness of a problem that may not have previously existed.
PetSmart says it is the leader in the retail pet trade. They are a company that has very publicly committed themselves to Responsible Husbandry and Animal Welfare. As a leader with an ethical pet treatment agenda they can cause a change in signage to occur. An additional benefit of having that change occur as a result of PetSmart's commitment to animals is that the manufacturer of signage will be able to sell the "new and improved" signage to retailers throughout the retail trade. With a dedicated effort we can encourage one change that ripples from the mass merchandiser down to the local fish store level.
A single focus. A single change. An industry wide correction.
Send those letters. Keep it polite. Keep it dignified. Treat PetSmart with the same respect we provide our fish.
One of the people actively involved in the Accuracy in Information issue found something on the Point-Of-Purchase signage that fascinates me. And, it reinforces, at least in my mind, the value of the approach http://www.noclownsinacube.net is taking. The item was an 800 number. The number does not lead back to PetSmart. Rather, it leads to a supplier of tags.
Buying from a third party does not relieve a retailer of responsibility for the information contained. The odds of hobbyists having any influence with someone we do not buy from are nil. The third party does not need to keep the ultimate consumer of the product advertised happy. All they need to do is keep their customers satisfied. Their customers being the retailers. By voicing our concerns to a specific retailer we can create an awareness of a problem that may not have previously existed.
PetSmart says it is the leader in the retail pet trade. They are a company that has very publicly committed themselves to Responsible Husbandry and Animal Welfare. As a leader with an ethical pet treatment agenda they can cause a change in signage to occur. An additional benefit of having that change occur as a result of PetSmart's commitment to animals is that the manufacturer of signage will be able to sell the "new and improved" signage to retailers throughout the retail trade. With a dedicated effort we can encourage one change that ripples from the mass merchandiser down to the local fish store level.
A single focus. A single change. An industry wide correction.
Send those letters. Keep it polite. Keep it dignified. Treat PetSmart with the same respect we provide our fish.
Further to the 800 number, there was also a company name. A search of the web brought up a website and an email address. I sent an email inquiring about whether the POP "sets" were available for independant retailers across North America and specifically asked who produced the written content of the signs. I wanted to know if this graphics company supplied the written info such as Diet, Max size, Tank size etc., or did the retailer supply that info simply for the graphics people to print up for them. Hopefully a response will be forthcoming and that "niggling" question running around my brain will be answered. Lol!
There are things that you can work to change. POP signage is one of them. We need retailers to provide accurate information.
Have you sent your letter this week?
We have samples you can use as is or borrow bits and pieces from and then compose your own.
http://www.noclownsinacube.net
Have you sent your letter this week?
We have samples you can use as is or borrow bits and pieces from and then compose your own.
http://www.noclownsinacube.net
Linda Scott with PetSmart's Corp Communication department has been sending responses to individuals throughout the course of the week as result of letters and e.mails concerning the need for "Accuracy In Information". It is an interesting e.mail and will be posted in its entirety at http://www.noclownsinacube.net over the weekend. It was a thoughtful answer. Unfortunately it has created the need for additional help and assistance.
We are soliciting photos from hobbyists of tank reared specimens of certain species. here is what we are after:
â?¢Clown Loach / Botia macracantha / Specimens in excess of 7"TL
â?¢Tin Foil Barb / Barbus schwanenfeldi / Specimens in excess of 8"TL
â?¢Green Terror / Aequidens rivulatus / Specimens in excess of 6" TL
â?¢Midas Cichlid / Amphilophus citrinellus / Specimens in excess of 8" TL
â?¢Oscar Varieties / Astronotus ocellatus / Specimens in excess of 10"
â?¢Jack Dempsey / Cichlasoma octofasciatum / Specimens in excess of 6"
We will need to be able to visually verify the TL in the photos. And, information regarding tank size and age of fish would be very beneficial.
Our photo gallery link: http://www.noclownsinacube.net/gallery/index.php
We need the support of hobbyists to accomplish this. The conversation with retailers must remain an active one. Your help is appreciated. If you have any questions about our effort feel free to PM me.
If you are gifted with the camera and have the ability to visually document the TL of your fish, but don't have the specimens we listed above, visit our site. Click on the Retailer v. Reality link. Scroll through the list and find the fish with disparities between the retailers and the species information listed. If you have a species with a disparity of significance, take a photo of that species and upload the photos to our gallery.
We are soliciting photos from hobbyists of tank reared specimens of certain species. here is what we are after:
â?¢Clown Loach / Botia macracantha / Specimens in excess of 7"TL
â?¢Tin Foil Barb / Barbus schwanenfeldi / Specimens in excess of 8"TL
â?¢Green Terror / Aequidens rivulatus / Specimens in excess of 6" TL
â?¢Midas Cichlid / Amphilophus citrinellus / Specimens in excess of 8" TL
â?¢Oscar Varieties / Astronotus ocellatus / Specimens in excess of 10"
â?¢Jack Dempsey / Cichlasoma octofasciatum / Specimens in excess of 6"
We will need to be able to visually verify the TL in the photos. And, information regarding tank size and age of fish would be very beneficial.
Our photo gallery link: http://www.noclownsinacube.net/gallery/index.php
We need the support of hobbyists to accomplish this. The conversation with retailers must remain an active one. Your help is appreciated. If you have any questions about our effort feel free to PM me.
If you are gifted with the camera and have the ability to visually document the TL of your fish, but don't have the specimens we listed above, visit our site. Click on the Retailer v. Reality link. Scroll through the list and find the fish with disparities between the retailers and the species information listed. If you have a species with a disparity of significance, take a photo of that species and upload the photos to our gallery.
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apistomaster
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While not a mass marketing issue but still a marketing accuracy issue is that among wild discus vendors apparently any discus can be a blue discus if you want to call it one. This relates to wild caught fish. All of a sudden brown discus have become blue discus even when it lacks the extent of blue markings of a decent common brown.
More of a peeve, I guess, but I started breeding wild discus in 1969 and in all that time I would never think of calling a plain brown fish blue. Seems like a valid complaint in the same vein as truth and accuracy in advertising.
More of a peeve, I guess, but I started breeding wild discus in 1969 and in all that time I would never think of calling a plain brown fish blue. Seems like a valid complaint in the same vein as truth and accuracy in advertising.
Avid Trout fly fisherman. ·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
Thanks for all your help. Progress is being made. An update of details:
We have obviously been sending letters and e.mails. Turns out lots of them. They made it to the desks of the addressees and were routed to the DVM responsible for Quality Assurance.
We have spoken with Dr. Saint-Erne. We have exchanged e.mails. The topic of concern that is the common thread of the exchanges is Accuracy In Information as it relates to:
â?¢Context of data provided. Point of applicability to the time continuum defined by the life of the particular fish.
â?¢Point of Origin. Turns out that the data provided (South America, Africaâ?¦) was not intended as consumer data. Rather it is plan-o-gram data for use by store associates when stocking tanks. A bit confusingâ??lol.
â?¢Fish Size. The primary source to be utilized was provided nearly two weeks ago. PETsMART has suggested several secondary sources as well as asking for hobbyist input for additional resources.
â?¢Stocking Guidelines. Currently the 1â?
We have obviously been sending letters and e.mails. Turns out lots of them. They made it to the desks of the addressees and were routed to the DVM responsible for Quality Assurance.
We have spoken with Dr. Saint-Erne. We have exchanged e.mails. The topic of concern that is the common thread of the exchanges is Accuracy In Information as it relates to:
â?¢Context of data provided. Point of applicability to the time continuum defined by the life of the particular fish.
â?¢Point of Origin. Turns out that the data provided (South America, Africaâ?¦) was not intended as consumer data. Rather it is plan-o-gram data for use by store associates when stocking tanks. A bit confusingâ??lol.
â?¢Fish Size. The primary source to be utilized was provided nearly two weeks ago. PETsMART has suggested several secondary sources as well as asking for hobbyist input for additional resources.
â?¢Stocking Guidelines. Currently the 1â?
oh, by the way we have suggested the information in the e-catalog be utilized as required to help get a better understanding of information for various species. and we utilized the same to help fill in the blanks (many of them) and resolve conflicts when examining other sources.
we even link to it from our site so people can recreate our information.
we even link to it from our site so people can recreate our information.
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Jools
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This should be a two way thing, I'd like to think that EVERY catfish species that makes its way intoa chain pet stores tanks should be fully documented on Planet.
Do the stores have such a list? Do you? Is anyone keeping a record of what species are offered for sale?
Jools
Do the stores have such a list? Do you? Is anyone keeping a record of what species are offered for sale?
Jools
Owner, AquaticRepublic.com, PlanetCatfish.com & ZebraPleco.com. Please consider donating towards this site's running costs.
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bronzefry
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Jools,
From my understanding, there is a list the stores work from. They can request the fish on the list. What they get in return is a quite a different matter. Many of the workers aren't experts in fish and don't make much money. It's rare when you stumble across someone that is the exception, but it's a pleasure and I make sure to e-mail PetSmart corporate to tell them they have a gem of an employee!
I believe "Spotted Corydora" is one of the fish on the list. The scientific name is listed as "Corydora sp." I happened upon (4) of these loves yesterday, sub-adults no less. Once they settled into the tank, it was clear that not all were Corydora trilineatus, once again(this happened a while back). As luck would have it, I believe I now have more Corydora copei. It's so difficult to know what species are in the tank in the store since they are stressed. Their tankmates aren't always appropriate (Chaetostoma sp. with Angelfish?) and the water parameters are singular due to a central filtration system.
Amanda
From my understanding, there is a list the stores work from. They can request the fish on the list. What they get in return is a quite a different matter. Many of the workers aren't experts in fish and don't make much money. It's rare when you stumble across someone that is the exception, but it's a pleasure and I make sure to e-mail PetSmart corporate to tell them they have a gem of an employee!
I believe "Spotted Corydora" is one of the fish on the list. The scientific name is listed as "Corydora sp." I happened upon (4) of these loves yesterday, sub-adults no less. Once they settled into the tank, it was clear that not all were Corydora trilineatus, once again(this happened a while back). As luck would have it, I believe I now have more Corydora copei. It's so difficult to know what species are in the tank in the store since they are stressed. Their tankmates aren't always appropriate (Chaetostoma sp. with Angelfish?) and the water parameters are singular due to a central filtration system.
Amanda
jools,
we are hoping to have that list as people help us in the data acquisition phase of this effort.
We have a number of the species identified already. It is basically the result of people going to the local outlets and cataloging what is offered for sale--and then combining that with the information with results from other areas.
WalMart for example purchases on a regional basis--at least that is what i am told. So, each region may carry very different species depending upon what is available from regional wholesalers.
PETsMART has hundreds of sku's of species they sell.
PetCo, Big Als, Petland and the others--we are not sure of yet. As more people help us we will get that data.
Drs. Foster and Smith are dang good with the data they provide. We will be speaking with them next week. They publish extensive info of species availablity on-line. We have that in the files we will be feeding into our database.
Obviously we have a different objective in the use of that data than Planet Catfish. But, we have a common need. We will willing share the data collected by the people that have fanned out across parts of the US and Canada.
We are dealing with "Competitive" market data. NCIAC.net will sign a non dsclosure--or confidentiality agreement--as reuired in an attempt to have companies provide us this data so that we in turn can plug in info and feed it back to them for their use. the e.catalog is an incredible tool i have utilized for many years. I have used it for personal reasons as a fishkeeper. At the same time I have used it as a refernece when trying to help newer fishkeepers get an understanding of what they have. And, i could not count the times I have posted a link to it at another board that i used to have time to participate on. That time has been cut short lately--lol.
I will send you my phone number and e.mail address if you want to discuss how we might be able to work together on a common goal.
sully
we are hoping to have that list as people help us in the data acquisition phase of this effort.
We have a number of the species identified already. It is basically the result of people going to the local outlets and cataloging what is offered for sale--and then combining that with the information with results from other areas.
WalMart for example purchases on a regional basis--at least that is what i am told. So, each region may carry very different species depending upon what is available from regional wholesalers.
PETsMART has hundreds of sku's of species they sell.
PetCo, Big Als, Petland and the others--we are not sure of yet. As more people help us we will get that data.
Drs. Foster and Smith are dang good with the data they provide. We will be speaking with them next week. They publish extensive info of species availablity on-line. We have that in the files we will be feeding into our database.
Obviously we have a different objective in the use of that data than Planet Catfish. But, we have a common need. We will willing share the data collected by the people that have fanned out across parts of the US and Canada.
We are dealing with "Competitive" market data. NCIAC.net will sign a non dsclosure--or confidentiality agreement--as reuired in an attempt to have companies provide us this data so that we in turn can plug in info and feed it back to them for their use. the e.catalog is an incredible tool i have utilized for many years. I have used it for personal reasons as a fishkeeper. At the same time I have used it as a refernece when trying to help newer fishkeepers get an understanding of what they have. And, i could not count the times I have posted a link to it at another board that i used to have time to participate on. That time has been cut short lately--lol.
I will send you my phone number and e.mail address if you want to discuss how we might be able to work together on a common goal.
sully
letter writing
Hey JPS
You wrote an excellent letter which was likely read by the intended because you not only pointed out the the problem but also gave cudos for what they are doing right . More people who care about the well being of non human species are doing this . Unfortunately , many who speak out get labelled as enviromental loonies , as they tend to write their letters when in an emotional state caused by seeing images depicting cruelty to other creatures . I have written letters for many causes including bettas in a vase and was very impressed with the noclownsinacube site article on the healthy keeping of bettas. I also have a small school of clown loaches that I have had the pleasure of watching for several years (the thought of them in a vase is horrid) , but have never owned a betta and have never bought anything from anywhere that desplays them in such cruel ways . I have been told on numerous occasions by retailers that they live in puddles . No matter how many times I point out that this is an outright lie , they either believe in its truth or maintian the illusion for reasons of profit . It is hard to fathom that anyone can bury their head in the sand so effectively , but it continues to happen . Thanks JPS , and I encourage more people to follow your lead in writing intelligent and pointed letters to retailers .
dag
You wrote an excellent letter which was likely read by the intended because you not only pointed out the the problem but also gave cudos for what they are doing right . More people who care about the well being of non human species are doing this . Unfortunately , many who speak out get labelled as enviromental loonies , as they tend to write their letters when in an emotional state caused by seeing images depicting cruelty to other creatures . I have written letters for many causes including bettas in a vase and was very impressed with the noclownsinacube site article on the healthy keeping of bettas. I also have a small school of clown loaches that I have had the pleasure of watching for several years (the thought of them in a vase is horrid) , but have never owned a betta and have never bought anything from anywhere that desplays them in such cruel ways . I have been told on numerous occasions by retailers that they live in puddles . No matter how many times I point out that this is an outright lie , they either believe in its truth or maintian the illusion for reasons of profit . It is hard to fathom that anyone can bury their head in the sand so effectively , but it continues to happen . Thanks JPS , and I encourage more people to follow your lead in writing intelligent and pointed letters to retailers .
dag
?In relation to animals, all people are Nazis; for [them] it is an eternal Treblinka.?
? Isaac Bashevis Singer (1904-1991), Yiddish writer and vegetarian
? Isaac Bashevis Singer (1904-1991), Yiddish writer and vegetarian