Laterite clay and aluminum toxicity

TxFishDr · Post by **TxFishDr** » 01 Oct 2006, 01:48

You guys with planted aquariums ever seen toxicity in fish when you add the laterite clay(first layer) to an acidic tank(6.4-6.8). I added maybe 6 cubic inches to my 55gal after thorough rinsing today and my gibbiceps started rolling around on the bottom of the tank and swimming very awkward and slow. Thats not very much clay. The tank did get cloudy. The alkalinity went from 40(low) to 180(High) according to the Quick test strips. I did a 30% water change. Now the fish is just laying on the bottom and continues to swim awkwardly...almost like a swim bladder problem. Any other differentials that may cause this.

TxFishDr · Post by **TxFishDr** » 01 Oct 2006, 03:46

Well...the lil guy didnt make it.

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 01 Oct 2006, 11:35

Well, I've no personal experience with laterite, but I can say as much as that aluminium poisoning had nothing to do with the death of your fish. Aluminium is only very weakly toxic, and becomes a problem because it is accumulated in tissues - ie after prolonged exposure to elevated levels. And even then it mainly affects reproduction.

Also a pH of 6.4 is high enough that I'd not really expect aluminium to be a problem.

The rise in alkalinity, however, suggests that you've raised pH significantly, and if pH rose to over 7.5 or thereabouts, and if you had a lot of ammoniUM in your tank, as you likely did as nitrifying bacteria work slowly at low pH's, then that's the reason your fish died. Raising pH converts weakly toxic ammoniUM to acutely toxic ammmoniA.

Other possibilities include various other toxic substances which might somehow have gotten in to the laterite soil.

Also, for future reference: there is no problem with water quality that large, repeated, water changes with high-quality water can't fix.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 02 Oct 2006, 13:00

From what I read, the effects of aluminium in the diet, it can also have an effect on the brain - but that was a few years ago that I read that, so maybe the research has found that it's not got that effect..

Either way, I agree with Mike - the fish's problem is certainly not connected with the aluminium content of the laterite.

Ammonia content in the water is one key figure to look at - is this a newly set up tan or well-established?

Did you get the laterite from an aquatics supplier? If not, it may be that it's containing matters that don't belong in an aquarium that are added as nutrients for plants (such as nitrate compounds that can turn into ammonia?).

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Mats

TxFishDr · Post by **TxFishDr** » 02 Oct 2006, 17:47

The Ammonia levels are 0-.25ppm according to my quick test strips. Thats a safe level. It is a new tank though ~6weeks. Laterite was aquarium grade. thanks for your help.

PlecoCrazy · Post by **PlecoCrazy** » 03 Oct 2006, 02:48

(such as nitrate compounds that can turn into ammonia?)

What compounds are these. I have not heard of this.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 03 Oct 2006, 11:48

Breakdown of urea, for example, would create ammonia. Urea is sometimes used as a fertilizer (and deicer for airport runways).

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Mats