Help with fry!

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 12 Apr 2006, 00:14

Hi there!

Last sunday my albino cories spawned and laid eggs. I was able to collect some of them and put them in one of those plastic "whipped cream" container with tank water and methylene blue, foating in the tank. I've been changing the water and re-treating daily as suggested in your sticky here and a while ago I noticed that one of the eggs has a "tail" and moves!!

Is it normal???

The other eggs are still the same. If this is a fry, can it be in the water with methylene blue?? What do I do next??

Thanks!

Chris

Post by **Coryman** » 12 Apr 2006, 00:25

You do not need to re-treat after the initial dose, this should be reduced in strength by making daily (twice if possible) 30% - 50% water changes, replacing the removed water with water from the spawning tank. It you had tails showing when you made the post there is a fair chance those will be hatched now and be what is known as wrigglers. It will take another two day for them to absorb their yoke sac, after which they will need food, micro worm is what I normally give first, but if this is not available use fine powdered fry food and wet it to make a paste, feed a little of this. The amount will depend on the number of fry, little and often is the norm and keep up the regular water changes. I usually change water then feed.

Ian

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 12 Apr 2006, 00:30

Yeah, Ian, after I posted I re-read the sticky and realized I didn't need to re-dose the meds!

I carefully removed the little one to another plastic container with clean tank water and an air stone and also did a 80% water change in the plastic container where the other eggs are using tank water as well.

I think the air stone is too strong though. Is it ok to use it?

Oh I forgot to say that the main tank (from where I've been taking the water out to put in the plastic containers) is being treated with pimafix and melafix because not a long time ago I had a plec died from what looked like a fungus. No other fish seem to have any symptoms but I thought I should finish the treatment.

Should I use another source of water?? If so, can I use water from another tank, like my goldfish tank? The water params are fine and no meds in it..

I have Hikari First Bites. Can I use it?

Post by **Coryman** » 12 Apr 2006, 00:43

Those two meds are OK so long as you use extra air, I always apply a reasonably strong flow from the air stone after treating with either med, this ensures the the oxygen levels are maintained. Then after two days I make a 30% water change then revert to the normal regime.

Ian

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 12 Apr 2006, 00:52

Thanks Ian!

I'll keep using the water from the main tank then. BTW, it has a Penguin 350 and a Penguin 660R powerhead running. Both plastic containers also have air stones running... hmm... I can put the eggs with the fry, in one container, right?

Oh, Can I use the Hikari first bites food?

Post by **Coryman** » 12 Apr 2006, 00:54

Sure no problem.

Ian

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 12 Apr 2006, 16:17

More eggs hatched thhis morning!! Wooohoo

But there's still a couple to hatch...

Wow! This is the first time my cories' egss are not infertile. I'm soooo happy!!

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 13 Apr 2006, 00:50

I have a couple of questions regarding the setup of a fry tank

1) I've read that it should be 20 cm high. How long should it be?

2) Can I use a plastic container or does it have to be a glass aquarium? Is a 10 gallon aquarium to high for a 2 day old fry?

3) How powerful should the filter be? I've read about using a sponge filter, but what exactly is a sponge filter? Is it a pump connected to a sponge? How powerful should it be? Can I use HOB filters? If so, should I protect the intake tube with a sponge? Would that be enough to avoid the fry from getting sucked by the filter?

4) Should it have a heater as well? At what temp?

The reason I'm asking all these questions is because:

1) I have a 10 gallon spare tank
2) I have 2 HOB filters, both for 10 gallon tanks
3) I have new aquaclear sponges that I can use to cover the intake tube
4) I have 3 or 4 spare heaters

So, if I can use whatever I already have and save some money would be awesome.

I guess this is it for now.

Thanks!

Chris

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 15 Apr 2006, 00:50

Please, can I put the fry in a 10 gallon tank??? They are just few days old and very tiny, that's why I want to make sure

RiC · Post by **RiC** » 15 Apr 2006, 02:26

Sure you can put them in a 10g, as long as it's not full. That's where my fry go; the 10gs are half full, so that the fry can easily go to the surface, with sponge corner filters!
Good luck...

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 15 Apr 2006, 05:35

Well, that changes my plans a little since I was going to use one of my spare hang on the back filter

So, now I have to buy a corner filter... hubby is not gonna like it, so I guess I'll have to buy without telling him...

Is this what you're talking about? http://www.iadempet.com/CornerFilter.jpg

Dont' I need to connect a pump to it? How strong should the pump be?

Also, I can't find microworms anywhere around where I live. If anyone lives is Southern California, 909 area, and knows where I can find it, please let me know.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 15 Apr 2006, 14:34

Hi Chris,
This is a photo of the last batch of Aeneus fry. They were hatched and raised in a 10 gallon tank with a hang-on-back filter. I still have the tank set up and will take photos for you in a bit(the tank is empty now-I've moved the Aeneus into other tanks). Here's what I did: I filled the tank to where the filter would continuously run. It was around 1/3-1/2 full. The intake strainer(with the sponge) on this filter sits low in the tank. Some intakes sit higher than others. (With the higher intakes, the tank will need to have more water in it. Extension tubes usually come with these types of filters.) As the juveniles grow, add more water.

Feeding time(age 17 and 19 days):

Having the water level lower in the tank with the HOB filter running will be noisy, like a waterfall. It will also strain the filter a bit. I've found there's a positive: the water is aerated. I used the biowheel only in for the first few weeks. As they got larger and produced more waste, I added a bit of filter floss. That was it for filter media.

With the internal corner filter, you will need an airpump. There's usually an airstone inside. If you have an airpump handy, it is another option for when they are small. I'll take a picture of the 10 gallon set-up and post it for you.
Amanda

RiC · Post by **RiC** » 15 Apr 2006, 17:33

These are the filters I was talking about (for a 10g they are not even 10 bucks):

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fus ... 7/cid/1340

But yes you will need a pump. For my fry tanks, I use TetraTec DeepWater 12 (no noise at all).

The fry will eat live BBS once they are free-swimming

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 15 Apr 2006, 18:12

Hey guys thanks for helping!

The HOB I have is a TopFin and the intake tube is a short one, so I'll have to see up to where the tank should be filled with water.

I also have this: http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW ... mdy00.aspx

Regarding what to feed them, all I could get was Frozen Baby Brine Shrimp http://www.thatpetplace.com/FrozenFood/ ... etail.aspx

And Hikari First bites which I soaked before giving it to them, but how can I be sure they're getting it?

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 15 Apr 2006, 18:39

The baby brine shrimp is great. Their bellies turn orange, so you know when they're full. Changing the water every day is very important, too. The fish are growing so quickly. They expel a lot of waste. I bought a $3 suction bulb that's usually used on baby's ears. I suction out the bottom of the tank and then take out water by the cup(50% per day). Here's the 10 gallon tank:

It's full now, but the level can go down to about half(and I turn the heater sideways).

Here's one of the 17 from the latest group. They just turned 3 months old.
Amanda

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 15 Apr 2006, 18:56

Hi Amanda!

Thanks for the pictures!

This is the maximum of water I could remove with the type of HOB filter I have. Will this work? I've added a heater as well.

With the sponge

I want to take pictures of the fry and post them for you to see.

Chris

RiC · Post by **RiC** » 15 Apr 2006, 19:23

I think that should be fine!

Here are some of my last batch, one and a half months old:

I am raising about 80 of them...

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 15 Apr 2006, 19:35

OMG, that's soo cool!!

Look, this is what I used to suck out the waste from the bowl where they are now

this where they are

and this was the best close-up I could get

before cleaning

RiC · Post by **RiC** » 15 Apr 2006, 19:58

They are difficult to photograph, aren't they...

I used the same type of thing to suck up the waste when they were as tiny as yours.

But you'll see that as they grow, the size and quantity of waste increases accordingly and you won't be able to keep up...

- now I simply siphon every day with an airline tube and do the water changes...

Good luck!

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 15 Apr 2006, 20:03

I was able to remove a little more of the water so that now one inch of the sponge is out of the water and the filter is running OK.

How do you replace the water? I mean, do you use tap water? 'Cos my tap water has ammonia (about .5 to 1 ppm

) I use Prime as conditioner.

I'm using established media (that I took from one of my tanks) in the HOB filter. I just transferred the fry to the tank, but tested ammonia before doing so and the readings were 0. I set up the tank yesterday afternoon and used 50% of water from the tank where the Cories spawned, and 50% tap water.

Thanks for your help Amanda and RiC

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 15 Apr 2006, 20:12

I agree whole heartedly with the water change idea but to speed things up i use 4mm air tube to syphon the water out. It actively sucks the sediment and waste and you have control. I am realy interested in your thread here as I am trying something a little different to raise my fry. I currently have paleatus, pygmaeus and paleatus fry and am eagerly awaiting the hatching of about 200 napoensis eggs. Have a look at this thread and give me your opinions. This is phase two

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... hp?t=15469

RiC · Post by **RiC** » 15 Apr 2006, 21:29

chrisinha wrote:How do you replace the water? I mean, do you use tap water? 'Cos my tap water has ammonia (about .5 to 1 ppm ) I use Prime as conditioner.

My tap water is a nightmare too so I use 50% tap 50% deionized with the proper buffers. Prime is a good product

.

Eupterus I checked your thread and I would say that's too small? Especially if you want to keep them 6 weeks in there? With no filtration? But that's just my opinion. Also, one thing to consider: the fry love to go under my corner filters

... would it be a problem if they do the same with the heat mat?

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 15 Apr 2006, 21:48

The heat mat is uner the glass and not in the tank so no problem there, as for size, this is one of my concerns. I am going to monitor the growth. The filter shouldnt be a problem as I am doing 50% water changes twice daily using water from the mature parent tanks. What size would you consider to be ok. I was basing the volume on the ice cream containers that people seem to use.

RiC · Post by **RiC** » 16 Apr 2006, 00:41

eupterus wrote:I was basing the volume on the ice cream containers that people seem to use.

I was not aware of that...

The volume also depends on the population, so it's difficult so say. But here is my experience with the last batch. I had no tanks ready (I'm also raising two different species of apistos) so when I took the eggs out, I had only a 5g to put them in, although I knew it was too small. I had something like 100 fry.

When a 10g became available, I separated the crowd and moved half into it; I got two to three weeks later another 10g. So those that were moved into the first 10g are now almost twice bigger than the others; so yes, it's better if there is plenty of room.

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 16 Apr 2006, 03:57

Is 82F too high for them?

The heater is set to 75F, but the water temp is 82F now...

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 16 Apr 2006, 20:23

Chris,
If you don't hear it clicking on and off, there may be a problem. Sometimes if a heater breaks, it can get stuck "on." Also, are you keeping the lights on a lot? This can heat the water if the light is strong. It's tough having a smaller volume of water in a tank. There's a lot to pay attention to.

Amanda

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 17 Apr 2006, 07:54

Hi Amanda!

Honestly I've never heard any clicking by any of my heaters

but they are always working fine. I think the problem must be because, like you said it yourself, there's less water in the tank and it's a heater for a 10 gallon...

I've been keeping the light on during the day. It's a fluorescent bulb, so I don't think it affects the water's temp, but I'll keep an eye on it. I might need to lower the heater then...

I think I lost 2 fry today, I found their little bodies or what seemed to be their little bodies. I've counted 28 fry now.

Thanks!

Chris

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 28 Apr 2006, 00:30

Here's an update

They are all doing great. It's been about 16 days since the first egg hatched, so I've taken some pictures and videos

Ps.: You might not be able to see the videos right now because the photobucket website is having some issues... try later

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 28 Apr 2006, 14:14

Nice job, Chris!

How many feedings a day?
Amanda

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 28 Apr 2006, 20:24

Thanks, Amanda!

I've been feeding them twice a day. First meal around 8:30 am and second meal around 6:30 pm.

They eat live and frozen baby brine shrimp (the live one I've hatched them myself) and Hikari First Bites, but it is pretty obvious they prefer de Brine Shrimp

50% water change every other day.
Params are ammonia 0, nitrites 0 and pH 7.5