Regeneration in S. decorus

troi · Post by **troi** » 19 Jan 2006, 07:32

I finally went back for the three S. decorus juvies I had my eye on and found only two; no one seemed to know happened to the other. The fish were in with breeding N. brichardi and very torn up: half the pelvic fins and all of the dorsal fins excpet the leading ray are gone. Both fish are skinny, one looks like all head and this nearly skeletal body. Both about 1-1/2 inches snout to tail stub.

It doesn't look to me like the fish are sick--no fungus, no red, no white patches. They are active and eating, if nervous; I think they have just been run off the food for a month. so, I bought them at a drastically reduced price and brought them home. They are in a 1 gal plastic holder (Critter Keeper) with sand and two little flower pots, submerged in the thirty gal plec tank, with an airstone to keep the water circulating into the keeper. They can be fed independent of the plecs.

The fish are obviously hungry and act like they will eat anything I give them. I gave them two tubifex worms and two "tropical flakes" each when I set them up. And a quarter of a sinking pellet to share.

They seem to be still hungry, but how much can I feed them at one time without shocking their little systems? And how often can I feed them? They need to be fattened up, fast.

And, has anyone any experience with the regeneration of fin tissue in Synos? The damage is pretty severe, but if they heal like goldies, I'll have new fins tomarrow. Or two dead fish. I didn't tank pix as the poor guys have been thru enough already, but may in a day or two.

TIA, troi

worton[pl] · Post by **worton[pl]** » 19 Jan 2006, 08:30

Hey,

keep the water clean and they will regenerate for sure in very short time :)(I'm not sure about hard rays in fins - because I have never had syno with so damaged fins and there are rumours that hard fins don't regenerate so easly, however my microglanis regenerated all rays even hard :)). Feed them not too much, even in their condition it is much better for them to be still a little hungry after feeding :)). Watch their bellies and when you notice that they have something inside it's enough food :). Are their bellies sunken?

IMHO fish are not humans - there is no worry you can feed them too much after several weeks of starving.

What about your bigger decorus and eupterus? You wrote some time ago that you noticed some "strange", breeding like behaviour.

Regards.

troi · Post by **troi** » 19 Jan 2006, 19:13

worton[pl] wrote:rumours that hard fins don't regenerate so easly, however my microglanis regenerated all rays even hard :)).Watch their bellies and when you notice that they have something inside it's enough food :). Are their bellies sunken?
What about your bigger decorus and eupterus? You wrote some time ago that you noticed some "strange", breeding like behaviour.

Still alive and active this morning.

I heard the same about hard rays, but I found they do regernerat in Goldfish, although they seem a bit weak and with a bump where old and new fin tissue meet. Maybe in "baby," still developing, fish they stand a better chance.

Belly not sunken like a starving plec gets, but maybe the syno equivilant--the sides seem sunken.

The adult S. decorus and eupterus stayed in Calif in a friend's fishroom when I moved. We are still discussing whether I will reclaim them or not. He has developed a fondness for them and tankmates and says he can get a really big system for them. Moving them would be problematic, but could be done.

That was funny, watching Dottie keep the younger S. decorus in the cave and run off the other fish. I felt sorry for the third decorus as odd man out.

The LFS with the S. decorus tried to sell me two semi-adult eupterus yesterday. so tempted.

troi
troi

snowball · Post by **snowball** » 19 Jan 2006, 23:27

My S. eupterus lost half its dorsal spine when it was a young adult, I was worried it would never be able to attain much of a 'feather fin' but it soon grew back (a lump at the break point was noticable for a while) and today it is as tall as any I've seen.

troi · Post by **troi** » 20 Jan 2006, 02:50

snowball wrote:My S. eupterus lost half its dorsal spine when it was a young adult, I was worried it would never be able to attain much of a 'feather fin' but it soon grew back (a lump at the break point was noticable for a while) and today it is as tall as any I've seen.

So the lump went away? This is encouraging. It is still touch and go if these guys will even live. I give them a week before I get attached to them.

thanks,
troi

troi · Post by **troi** » 20 Jan 2006, 21:43

troi wrote: I didn't tank pix as the poor guys have been thru enough already, but may in a day or two.

Still alive and active.

I redid the hospital with finer sand to the fish could get at the food better.

Pix up at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hgdav/sets ... 051341934/

snowball · Post by **snowball** » 22 Jan 2006, 06:17

Yes, the lump went away and is now no longer visible - mind you that happened 15 years ago!

From memory it seemed to take a while to start re-growing (maybe this was just a month or so?), but when it did it grew back to full height fairly quickly. The small lump was most noticable while the fin filaments were still growing back, and for a while the leading edge of the fin had a bit of a kink in it, but once the fin spine and fin was fully re-grown you'd be hard pressed to spot any sign of damage.

The lovely black tassle of the decorus does look similar to that on the eupterus so I would imagine it would regrow to full length in time.

How are they going troi? From the pictures they look a bit battered but alert and well, and if you say they are eating then I'm sure they will recover.

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 22 Jan 2006, 14:10

They grow fast. Mine went from 3 inches to 6 inches in 6 months.

troi · Post by **troi** » 22 Jan 2006, 20:14

snowball wrote: How are they going troi? From the pictures they look a bit battered but alert and well, and if you say they are eating then I'm sure they will recover.

I am having a problem: The big fish, 1-1/2 inches, is picking on the little fish, 1-3/8 inches at feeding time. As they get stronger the larger fish is becoming more aggressive; I find the smaller fish at the top of the critter keeper or hiding behind the air line. So far, the aggression is at the syno squabble level but I am concerned about the little guy. I have several thoughts about how to deal with this which I am going to discuss in "Tank Talk" under the subject line "Moving fish to significantly softer water" ASAP

laurab5 wrote:They grow fast. Mine went from 3 inches to 6 inches in 6 months.

Under ordinary circumstances the growth on S. decorus, stunted or otherwise, is astonishing, I agree. These guys have regeneration issues as well as stress issues, so I expect slower developement for awhile.

troi

snowball · Post by **snowball** » 22 Jan 2006, 23:47

I just saw your other post and moving the smaller one would indeed be the best thing to do. However if they are squabbling then I would say they are well on the road to recovery.

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 22 Jan 2006, 23:57

They are agressive towards food. One of mine was .5 inches bigger than the other. Trust me, if the other is around food, then it is eating

troi · Post by **troi** » 23 Jan 2006, 20:47

Yes, I am seeing some new fin tissue on both of them and both get nice little catfish pot bellies at feeding time. The harrassing is not serious enough for the aggressor to pursue if he suceeds in chasing off the little guy, but in one gallon there is not a lot of territory for either.

troi

naturalart · Post by **naturalart** » 24 Jan 2006, 03:47

hello everyone, I am obviously new to this site and have read a little and its good to hear that people are positive and knowledgable.
Hey Troi,told you i'd talk to you soon on planetcatfish. I'm glad to hear your decorus are recovering. Keeping them well fed definitley slows the aggression, I've found. And maybe a few more obstecles between the two might work? Anyway thanks again for help with my shoutedeni's. My male is doing well. And does anyone know of any reputable dealers carrying S. shoutedeni's?

troi · Post by **troi** » 24 Jan 2006, 04:55

naturalart wrote: Keeping them well fed definitley slows the aggression... And maybe a few more obstecles between the two might work?

LOL, the feeding seemed to increase aggression for these guys.The little one just went into the cory tank not 15 minutes ago and was acting like a freed fish when last seen.

Can't help you with the dealers, tho.

troi

troi · Post by **troi** » 27 Jan 2006, 07:40

In a week, the fish have started to regenerate finnage very well. I did separate the damaged fish for aggression; the smallest is now in with the cories and has taken up residence in a cave there. It is still a timid fish and I don't see much of him except when he chases he cories out of his cave, so I guess all is well.

troi

toddnbecka · Post by **toddnbecka** » 28 Jan 2006, 08:53

Syno's are tough fish, give them a month or two, they will probably be good as new. Just keep their water clean and changed regularly, and don't forget they like spirulina flakes along with meatier foods.

troi · Post by **troi** » 30 Jan 2006, 06:29

toddnbecka wrote:Syno's are tough fish, give them a month or two, they will probably be good as new. Just keep their water clean and changed regularly, and don't forget they like spirulina flakes along with meatier foods.

Thanks. The bigger one is growning, both are regenerating finnage well, but the littler, scrwany one I put in with the cories is still very thin. I am wondering aobut internal parasites.

Has anyone treated with any of the new internal parasite meds on the market? Or does anyone know if there is a common internal parasite in these fish? I treated camellanus with "DisoMed" in food, it has a vermicide, but don't know if camellanus is a common thing or was a one off.

troi

toddnbecka · Post by **toddnbecka** » 30 Jan 2006, 07:02

Many, if not most WC fish have some kind of parasites. They can usually handle it with no problems, unless they are stressed. I've never treated fish for parasites. I quarantine them when I bring them home as a precaution, but have been fortunate so far. There is a product called tank buddies parasite clear that is supposed to take care of parasites. It will also kill shrimp, or anything with an exoskeleton; it contains a pesticide that prevents shedding of the exoskeleton, but should be safe for catfish. It contains metronidazole, praziquantel and acriflavine. The metronodazole and praziquantel are the main ingredients for killing parasites, while the acriflavine is an antibiotic for possible secondary infections resulting from parasite damage. Can you find out whether the dealer or his distributor have treated them with anything?

troi · Post by **troi** » 30 Jan 2006, 23:12

toddnbecka wrote:The metronodazole and praziquantel are the main ingredients for killing parasites, while the acriflavine is an antibiotic for possible secondary infections resulting from parasite damage.

Not sure about this one, I may give it a try. I am also curious about one called Gel-tek Ultra Cure PX, an edible gel for the common internal parasites.

Acriflavine can also kill your filter. None of the above meds address nemetodes, which is what I have seen in synos in the past, tho.

I am taking this over to "Tank Talk" 'cause I expect to go way off topic.

Thanks,

troi

troi · Post by **troi** » 10 Feb 2006, 19:53

Update on the damaged S. decorus "kittens:"

Had a bout of ich--the critter keeper traps pathogens--so I moved the second "kitten" to the expanded-to-20-gal cory tank, and treated everyone. All the fin damage is healed, the rays are growing back well, both fish are growing and putting on weight and, with enough room and several caves, acting like young S. decorus. The little guy is a bit intimidated by the boisterous cories but seems to be holding his own.

*whew* I'm glad THAT'S over.

troi

snowball · Post by **snowball** » 11 Feb 2006, 11:57

That's good to hear, I'm sure they will do well in your care. With any luck they may repay you one day by spawning ;)

troi · Post by **troi** » 13 Feb 2006, 06:24

snowball wrote:That's good to hear, I'm sure they will do well in your care. With any luck they may repay you one day by spawning ;)

Have you ever had S. decorus spawn or attempt to? Not for this topic, but I did once my other guys get close once. Let me know off list or in a new topic if you have any experience with this, if you please.

troi

snowball · Post by **snowball** » 13 Feb 2006, 09:30

sorry if I got your hopes up troi, it was just a reference to your previous close call with the eupterus, wishing you luck that maybe the decorus will take a cue from them one day

troi · Post by **troi** » 08 Apr 2006, 01:42

Pix are up! I posted are few shots of the degree of regrowth in the damaged synos that started this thread. The new pix follow the old, amazingly enuff.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hgdav/sets ... 051341934/

troi

troi · Post by **troi** » 16 Jan 2009, 08:18

The two rescues from two years ago are still around and fully regenerated quickly. They are not growing as fast as my previous decora, but they aren't changed as often and don't have as big a tank. The gill covers on both are turned back a bit.

I have heard water quality can cause this. Does anyone know anything about the condition?

troi

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 16 Jan 2009, 10:12

troi wrote: I have heard water quality can cause this. Does anyone know anything about the condition?

troi

It is (as I've heard) a consequences of high nitrates.

--
Mats

troi · Post by **troi** » 17 Jan 2009, 01:49

MatsP wrote:
It is (as I've heard) a consequences of high nitrates.

Have you heard if the condition is reversible? When I get the quality issue straightened out, will the tissue straighten out? Aside from this, the fish are fine and entertaining.

troi

toddnbecka · Post by **toddnbecka** » 17 Jan 2009, 04:29

It's worth a try; if any fish is capable of recovering from "nitrate poisoning" I suspect catfish would be most likely to do so. They are the most resilient family I've encountered...

Regeneration in S. decorus

Regeneration in S. decorus

Re: Regeneration in S. decorus--Pix up Jan 20, 06

new kid on the bog

Re: new kid on the bog

REgeneration in synos

fin regeneration complete

Re: Regeneration in S. decorus

Re: Regeneration in S. decorus

Re: Regeneration in S. decorus

Re: Regeneration in S. decorus