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it needs to be about 4 inches long, so could i just get a bistle nose?
dont suggest an otto, because i had three, but they were eaten by my pictus

Bristlenose get a little bit bigger, but not much.

What's your tank size/stocking/water parameters?

What size tank is it for? What is the hiding place,decoration situation? What other fish do you have in the tank?

LOL my bad racoll was typing the same thing at the same time

its a 60x30x30, and the only other bottom fish are 2 clown loaches and my 2 pictus (may get rid of one though), erm, ive got a big broad leafed plant on one side, and some reeds on the other. and ive got a bubble wall, and 2 average sized peices of bogwood.

PH 7
i dont know what else to say

its a 60x30x30

I presume that's cm not inches.

A bristlenose should be fine in that tank, although you will need to upgrade to, at the very least a 3 foot tank, and preferably a four footer, in order to keep the clown loaches and pictus long term.

oh, looks like ill be getting rid of a few fish then.....

oh, looks like ill be getting rid of a few fish then....

Unfortunately yes. It happens to all of us at some point. I went a bit mad with my big tank, and bought too far many fish for it.

Luckily I came to my senses and stopped thinking "just one more will be OK".

I took loads of really nice fish back to the LFS and got back a fraction of what i paid for them.

It was fun keeping them for a while, and I'm glad i got rid of them before i caused them any distress.

The problem with keeping fish that grow too big for a tank, or overstocking, is that they will never be too big for it. They die long before that.

What usually happens is, as the fish grows, the nitrates tend to build to to unmanagable levels. The filters can't cope with ammonia spikes as the fishes appetite grows. The fish gets stressed due to lack of swimming space, arguements with other fish, and deteriorating water quality.

This happens very gradually, and slowly weakens the fishes immunity. What happens next is often a disease outbreak which is usually fatal. This usually gets put down to "experience" and "one of those things". Of course this happens well before the fish looks too big for the aquarium, so the two and two aren't put together, but is often the cause.

The key rule is to find out exactly how big the fish gets before you buy it. Clown loach are often recommended for all tanks, but they reach over 12 inches given a chance. Pictus are also widely available, but they need lots of swimming space. Both are unsuitable for a two foot tank in the long term.

With a tank of this size you are really restricted to either sedentary fish, and fish less than about 4 inches.

This still gives you lots of choice.

Fish like ottos, dwarf corydorus (pygmeus & hastatus), small tetras and apistogrammas (cockatoos if your water is hard) are perfect.

You could also try breeding some fancy plecos (Hypancistrus species) in that tank, as they stay small.

The options are endless...................

i think ill get a bristle nose, preferably L183(or anything black), and 2-3 zebra loaches, and get rid of my pictus and clowns

I don't wish to be thorn in the side again, but Ancistrus dolichopterus L183 is a blackwater species from the Rio Negro that live in very very soft water and a low pH (less than 6).

Now I don't know how adaptable they are, as i've never kept them, but unless someone steps in and says they'll be fine in west midlands tapwater, then they'll probably be best avoided.

What are your exact tapwater parameters (GH, KH and pH)? You may need to ask the LFS for ecact measurements if you don't have the right test kits.

You could buy RO water though, as it won't be too expensive to change 25% of a two foot tank once a week.

i know my Ph is 7
and i have no real signs of nitrites or rates
so? anyone know any othe black britlenoses, or something nice to look at?

Do you know how hard the water is in GH and KH?

Black base colouration on bristlenoses -> Black water specie. This rule holds for all described/L-numbered species of bristlenoses. Black water species are more sensitive than the species that live in white/clear water.

--
Mats

i have no idea what GH and KH are
and , it looks like ill be getting a different coloured bristlenose then

They're measures of how hard (amount of dissolved minerals) your water is. Ask your LFS for the exact figures.

I think the Birmingham area gets a lot of it's water from Wales, which is generally soft water.

Do you have much limescale in your kettle and showerhead?

in my kettle, a little

Racoll, when you refer to a kettle are you talking about a cooking pot or does that have some other meaning?

you boil water in a kettle
to have cups of tea


Anyway, arent there any hardy bristlenoses? ive kept 2 common plecs in the tank for 1 year, but they got 2 big, so i gave them back to my lfs, in trade for the 3 ottos that got eaten, although, i think one is still alive, and its female

Oh, makes sense. Tea is not very popular in the US as it is in Europe. My mind didn't go that direction. I thought it was another word for something like Television is Tele which I would normally think of a telephone. Anyways thanks for the clarification.

its ok
so, does anyone know if theres a hardy bristlenose? or any common plec that stays relatively small, and eats mainly algae?

In the UK this is a kettle......



For boiling water.


What are they called in the US then?


With regard to the bristlenose, the regular common ones (Ancistrus sp.3) are very hardy, tolerate most water, and would be fine in your tank.

It's usually the wild ones that are a bit more fussy.

PlecoCrazy: A kettle is, nowadays, usually an electrical device in which you place water to heat it to boiling point, and then make tea, coffee or other hot drinks. Such as this.

Pictus_man: the "Common" bristlenose, is very hardy, tolerates just about any water conditions that you can have any other freshwater fish in. They are also relatively "cheap". "Mine" are for sale at the LFS for 3.95 each, at rougly 1.25"/4 cm TL - bigger ones are available at slightly higher prices.

--
Mats

Tea Pot

Its apparently a difference in countries. I followed your link to Phillips website and saw the kettles. If you go into Phillips website and choose US as the country they only list coffee makers and no kettles.

I am going to put this subject to rest now.

well, i think ill be getting myself one of those then
is there any other options? something small, vegetarian , and hardy? (please, not an otto)

pictus_man_77 wrote:well, i think ill be getting myself one of those then
is there any other options? something small, vegetarian , and hardy? (please, not an otto)

There really aren't many options that cover all. First of all, almost all other Loricariidae are either wild-caught -> less hardy, and most of the smaller ones are also not vegetarians to the same level.

I'd recommend you go for the Common ones.

They look quite nice when they grow large too:


--
Mats

but, i said i wanted one that didnt grow large, that was the whole point of this topic
so, you reckon i should just go for a common one then? OK

pictus_man_77 wrote:but, i said i wanted one that didnt grow large, that was the whole point of this topic
so, you reckon i should just go for a common one then? OK

What I meant was that they look nice when adult, as well as when little. The fish pictured above is around 4"/10cm TL at present, and probably not quite fully grown, but certainly nearly. I've had it for over a year, and it's been a good daddy since I got it.

--
Mats

How about a common whiptail Rineloricaria eigenmanni?

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/lo ... 1064_F.PHP

These are quite hardy little chaps. The one in my fathers tank is doing well despite his rather infrequent water changes


Make sure they get enough food though.


How about a small Peckoltia?

A smaller one would fit, and eat a bit of algae.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/loricari/G_18.PHP

racoll wrote:How about a common whiptail Rineloricaria eigenmanni?

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/lo ... 1064_F.PHP

These are quite hardy little chaps. The one in my fathers tank is doing well despite his rather infrequent water changes


Make sure they get enough food though.


How about a small Peckoltia?

A smaller one would fit, and eat a bit of algae.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/loricari/G_18.PHP

A small comment on links: If you use instead of the links to Cat-eLog pages, then the post can still be read later on when Jools has edited the scripts for generating the Cat-eLog pages. [And you don't have to first type in the name with italics tags and then copy'n'paste the link]. If you open the Cat-eLog page anyways, you can even copy the piece from the section at the bottom saying "To link to this page", which saves on the fingers...

Rineloricaria species are a bit harder to find than Ancistrus, or at least I don't see them very often.

Pecoltias, in my experience, are VERY POOR algae eaters. They probably do eat algae if there's nothing else available, but I've never seen them graze for algae like my Ancistrus does.

--
Mats

Thanks for the tip Mats!

pictus_man, what I would do is try and solve the algae problem first (easier said than done), and then you could have a a much wider choice of plec.