Green Phantom In 12 gal. Acrylic Tank: Am I Nuts?

Deandome · Post by **Deandome** » 29 Dec 2005, 06:07

First post...

I'm starting a new 12 gal. Eclipse tank with/for my 5yo (heated/integral bio-wheel filter/pebbly gravel/abundant fake plants, a cave, maybe more rocks soon). I've been inactive for about 10 yrs, but had a fresh tank for much of my youth & a marine one in my teens/20s.

Me being me...I don't want run of the mill fish, even though I know I need to establish my tank for a while with tetras & such before I get to what I want...kind of an exotic community tank, oxymoronic as it might be (i.e., monos, maybe a tiny cichlid, tiny killfish, small angel, some cool tetras...about 8-10 fish in total).

At my lfs, I spied the cutest little green phantom, and Carter loved it too. I want/need a small algae eater for this tank, and at $50, it ain't THAT much more than the more mundane dwarf plecos he has ($30).

Are they pretty hardy? How long should I wait until I add one (I'm thinkin' whan I see some nice algae growth..4-8 weeks)? Is this whole idea foolhardy??

What about the acrylic tank...will one/two lil' suckers do any damage..I heard some cats can do harm (the Eclipse seems like extra-tough polycarbonate/lexan, though)?

Finally...do I have to be extra-careful about ph/nitrates/etc.? I'm good w/water changes, and I'll be using water from the 5-stage RO filter we use for drinking water (btw, does that mean I won't need/shouldn't use water conditioner?).

Thanks for your help, and for the great resource that is this site!! I always thought of algae suckers as ugly tank-fillers that grew too big till I saw the phantom & read up on all the amazing species on the net.

Dean

pureplecs · Post by **pureplecs** » 29 Dec 2005, 11:05

IMO I would never put a green phantom in a 12 gallon as they get too big. In a 12gallon I would put some oto cats in as an algae eater.

The green phantoms are very beautiful as you said (I didn't even like having ours in a 40g!) Happy Holidays!

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 29 Dec 2005, 15:02

I would agree with the advice given above.

A small bristlenose would also be OK, although eventually that would probably need a bigger home too.

Unfortunately most of the pretty plecos are carnivores and not much good at eating your algae.

Post by **Barbie** » 29 Dec 2005, 20:27

I would have to agree that an L200 would get too large for your aquarium. Monos get HUGE and are brackish fish btw, totally unsuited to fw community. Angels are going to get aggressive with other fish when cramped like that, IME. What are your tap water conditions? If you have extremely alkaline water from your tap, you might have the perfect home for some Tanganyikan shell dwelling cichlids. Lots of behavior in a small package that would be perfectly suited to your tank.

This is my article on cycling your aquarium. It explains, in english, what happens in your filtration system and why. You WILL be seeing ammonia in the coming weeks, but don't try to modify your pH. Just use what comes out of the tap. It is usually very stable. Water that has gone through a 5 stage RO/DI unit will be too pure to keep the fish safe. While it's good for drinking, it has no buffering capacity and will put your fish at risk from their own waste. If your water is very hard and you want to soften it, mixing it at a set ratio with your RO water usually works well.

Read the article and then feel free to ask for clarification. It will definitely help you understand the process you're going to be seeing and keep your fish as safe as possible during it

.

Barbie

Silent Doh · Post by **Silent Doh** » 29 Dec 2005, 21:10

Perhaps a rubberlip pleco could suit your needs. They are sold at Petsmart for about $3-$4, and they only get 4" long. The only problem is that you need well oxygenated water, perhaps an air pump suitable for a 20 gallon would be O.K.

Azmeaiel · Post by **Azmeaiel** » 29 Dec 2005, 23:16

the bright yellow 'albino bristlenose' might be a nice small algae eater to start with. IMHO a small angel will soon turn into a large angel and you will have trouble, they really need a 25 gal so they dont get cramped later as they still grow large in a 10 gal usually to the detriment (and dissapearance) of their tankmates. Some small cichlids that are easy to keep and bright are the Kribs and rams, american and not as agressive as the african cichlids. Other small fish suitable for a little tank are tetras, corydoras, small barbs (odessa are best)guppies, endlers, danios, but be very careful what you mix together in a small space as you may have genocide on your hands. Killifish are good and would be ok with a BN, unfortunatley they are really only suitable for a species only tank unless you have a very large space.

Deandome · Post by **Deandome** » 29 Dec 2005, 23:26

Thanks all!!

Before I give up on the phantom, though...how fast do they grow? The ones at my shop are only 2", and I thought they only grew to about 5-6". That would be a bit cramped, but are we talking 2-3 years to get that big? If so, I might still give 'em a go.

By that time, I'm guessin' we'll have a bigger tank, otherwise I could give/sell it to my buddy. Then again, I kinda like the bristlenose pleco, iffen I can find one (how much $$ are we talking?).

And I've sinced figured out the mono/brakish problem. BTW, is there any such beast as a dwarf knivefish? I always liked them, and they're pretty hardy for a semi-exotic freshie.

Lastly, another prob popped up today....my tank is cloudy!! Not super bad, but certainly noticable...and there's not a single living organism in the tank (well, maybe there is & that's the problem!!). I set it up 4 days ago, and we were gonna get some starter tetras tomorrow. We have Lake Michigan water (pretty good for tanks, I think..and I did NOT use the RO water for the initial fill). I treated the water w/the Marineland Bio Safe treatment that came w/the tank, but I also added some Nutrafin "Cycle", which my fishstore guy said was good for jumpstarting the initial cycle.

Maybe that's the problem..I added that too soon & shoulda waited till I was adding the fish. And, yes, I rinsed the helloutta my gravel, and it was crystal-clear until today. I'll bring in some water for testing, but I'd love any feedback from you guys as to what you think this cloudiness could be.

Dean

P.S/edit: Shoulda read your cycle article before talkin' bout my cloudiness, Barbie! Seems like I'm doing an inadvertent fishless-cycle, w/o the ammonia.

But what do I do...is it now a bad idea to add fish? Should I add the ammonia...I really would prefer NOT to wait too long..Carter has his heart set on getting some fishies SOON!! They'll be 'disposable' tetras or something, but I do want to do this right...or as right as possible given the current state of things

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 29 Dec 2005, 23:50

They grow to about 9 inches. I believe Barbie's L128 are 8 inches long, right barbie. If you want algae eaters get a couple zebra oto's, and then for a fancy pleco get like a small, 2 inche L260.

Post by **Barbie** » 30 Dec 2005, 02:57

There are many things that can be causing the cloudiness, and for the first month or so, it's totally normal. I usually recommend not bothering with it at all. It's one of the only times in your life when just ignoring it and waiting for it to go away is perfectly acceptable ;). I doubt you're generating beneficial bacteria colonies without adding a food source, at this point though, so don't get your hopes up too far just yet. Tetras actually come from south america for the most part and due to that, they tend to have a lower tolerance for ammonia. Usually they aren't quite the perfect fish to cycle the tank with. Have you considered cherry barbs? Just two or three of them in there would give you some color and movement while your colonies mature.

I have 8" L128, yes, and the L200 will basically reach the same size, as long as they aren't the sharkfin variant. It will take them a year or two, but they are going to be a bit sensitive to live through learning how to keep a small tank like you have stable, IMO. You'd be much more well served with a small bristlenose type. If you're near Chicago, one of the members, Fishnut2, raises quite a few Ancistrus and is local. Maybe once you've had this tank up a few months and you decide to upgrade, you could look more seriously at the L200. For now, I do still have to recommend leaving them at the store for the moment.

BTW, welcome to your latest addiction ;).

Barbie

Green Phantom In 12 gal. Acrylic Tank: Am I Nuts?

Green Phantom In 12 gal. Acrylic Tank: Am I Nuts?

Maybe a rubberlip?