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Hi Guys

I'm hoping someone can help me with my tank anomaly. I currently carry out a weekly water change on my tank. I last changed the water on saturday and ran an Ammonia. Nitrite and Nitrate test. I tested the water at the beginning of last week and everything was fine. Now I have a slight ammonia reading of 0.15ppm with Nitrite 0ppm and Nitrate at 20 ppm. My Nitrate levels are normally around 10ppm or so.

During the last water change i cleaned my filter in the water I was replacing and as usual added a dose of Waterlifes Bacterlife to help the filter.

I'm a little stumped as to the sudden ammonia reading so any advice would be great. All the fish appear fine apart from my oilcat who was sitting in the open when I returned home. Considering I never see him unless theres food about i'm a little concerned.

Many thanks in advance

Paul

I don't generally do a water change and a filter cleaning at the same time. When I need to clean the filter, I generaly do it 2 days after I changed the water since you can remove most of the biological filtration. This is especcially true if you vacuum the gravel.

I'm not an expert, so you probably better get more opinions.

Genieworx wrote:Now I have a slight ammonia reading of 0.15ppm

Enlarge the amount of oxygen in your tank. This will help to break down the ammonia.

The strange thing is that you had a nitrate increase, along with the ammonia, shortly after a water change. ANY chance at all that there is a decaying plant, fish, chunk of uneaten food, or something that you missed that may be causing the problem?
Jeri

I'll go with hfjacinto on this one. It sounds as if your tank is cycling again. I've done it before, too. A few questions may help to understand if your tank is re-cycling: How large is the tank? How large was the water change? And how much of the filter media did you replace?

When I had this happen, it was a 10 gallon tank. I changed the spongy media. I also did a 50% water change at the same time. Big oops! Luckily, I had a Bio-Wheel going in another tank. I traded the media out of the Bio-Wheel filter and the ammonia went down in a few hours. That's when I started buying only Bio-Wheels for smaller tanks(sorry to sound like a Marineland ad, but the Bio-Wheels work for me.)
Amanda

Thanks for all the responses guys.

Today I added some Ammo-lock and changed a 1/3 of my 30G tank. I added some stress coat as well to help keep the guys happy.

I very rarely change the filter media in my fluval filter. I simply replace the carbon and the poly pad(??) and wash the other sponges thoroughly in the tank water i'm removing. This tank has been running for around 5 months or so.

I think my problems are 2 fold. I do have a coconut shell in the tank which had some rather brown looking moss on it. I have since scraped this degrading plantstuff off. SO I think Jellyfish was spot on with the plant debris etc.

Secondly I think I may be changing too much water too often. A guy at my LFS said that changing a 3rd of my tank weekly was a bit high and that 10% weekly would be more appropriate. I hate being new at this.

As a final note I was wondering if anyone had any idea how to assess when Ammonia is no longer present when using Ammo-lock. Although it renders ammonia harmless, it will still give a reading with test kits...

So much to learn, thanks again.

Paul

On a Juwel filter, I would recommend only cleaning parts of sponges each time - either the fine or the course ones. And I agree, you don't replace the sponges [unless they are "broken" in some way]. I don't replace the carbon filter-pad either, but I guess that's a personal thing...

As to how large a water change you should (or shouldn't) do is something we could probably debate for a long time, and it very much depends on how many fish (and what kind) you have in the tank. I do BIG whater changes on all my tanks, every week. Haven't had anything bad happen to any of my fish - except when I was in the process of moving house and DIDN'T do my big water changes, that is. And when I say big, I mean 30-50% per tank.

As long as the water you're putting in is similar [1] to the water you take out, it shouldn't be a problem. Of course, it DOES depend on what kind of fish you have in the tank too. Some fish, generally lake-species, are extremely sensitive to water parameter changes, others (pleco's for instance) live in rivers where the water will naturally vary quite dramatically depending on season etc, and the variation can be quite rapid too - if a rain-storm hits the upper parts of a river, and you get a flood-wave going down the river, you may well have a very rapid change both in temperature and chemical appearance of the water.

[1] Unless you're trying to recreate for instance rainy-season in a pleco-breeding attempt, the water being put in should have the same hardness, pH and temperature as the water already in the tank. Obviously, you DON'T want to have nitrate in the new water, for example, so it can not be exactly the same chemical buildup.

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Mats

I keep discus in my main tank, along with a gibby, a pecoltia and 2 baby bristle noses.

I change 10-20% of my water, daily! Thats at least 70% weekly .

I had the gibby before I got the Discus, and since I've increased my water change routine, to accomodate the Discus, he has had some massive growth spurts. He's grown 4" in 4 months.

My water is very stable, even though I have quite a heavily stocked tank. Nitrates are kept below 10mg/l, even with heavy feeding (3 times a day).

Water changes are good. Keeping Discus makes this a little excessive, but it keeps them happy, and the plecs too

Owch: I think changing 10-20% per day isn't the same as doing a 70% water change once a week. It's obviously a much more less noticable change to change 10% every day. Which is the reason [1] you do it this way for Discus that are pretty sensitive to water quality changes.

[1] Of course changing 70% once a week will also cause massive swings in the nitrate & other pollution levels in the tank, which wouldn't be a good thing. If you need to change more than about 50% of the water, it's probably a better idea to do smaller changes twice a week, just to keep the nitrate levels down.

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Mats

Thatâ??s right MatsP, which was what I was trying to get across. I usually get typing and forget my original point

Small, frequent water changes.

Again thanks for all the support on this one, I thought i'd best post an update.

I have just tested the water in my tank and it appears that the Ammonia level has risen to around 0.25ppm. The Nitrite is 0ppm and the Nitrate is 10ppm. I added the Ammo-lock yesterday morning as I was worried about the fish, did a 1/3 water change and then added the stress coat. I also held off feeding the yesterday also.

I have a feeling that the filter may indeed be cycling again So I was wondering should I continue to add ammo-lock and do water changes until the filter is capable of eating up the ammonia?

I'm concerned as I dont have a seperate tank to move my babies to.

Hi Matsp thanks again for the help I think the Fluval regime sounds like a plan. I have a bit of a mess of fish really as I have a Eupterus, some plecs and an oilcat. So I fear its a bit of a mix. I do however use RO water with my changes so that PH and Hardness are all pretty mid.

Thanks again in advance.

Paul

Genieworx wrote: I have just tested the water in my tank and it appears that the Ammonia level has risen to around 0.25ppm. The Nitrite is 0ppm and the Nitrate is 10ppm. I added the Ammo-lock yesterday morning as I was worried about the fish, did a 1/3 water change and then added the stress coat. I also held off feeding the yesterday also.

According to Mergus Atlas 1, an ammonia level of 0.2 milligrams per liter may be lethal, so beware.
It's a pity that you (apparently) missed my suggestion to increase the oxygen level, as I'm pretty sure that the ammonia level would have dropped by now. It's great to discuss water changes and filter systems, but this is for the future and doesn't supply help for you and/or your fish right now.
Keep a close watch on the oilcat (Tatia). If this one gets back to its usual routine, things are improving.
Good luck.

Try adding some Nutrafin Cycle, or similar product (a bottle of bacteria), double the dose daily and this will give your filter a kick start. Also try rinsing out media from another tank (if you have one) in you problem tank. It will cloudy the water, but will be full of beneficial bacteria.

Tom

Marc van Arc wrote:

Genieworx wrote: I have just tested the water in my tank and it appears that the Ammonia level has risen to around 0.25ppm. The Nitrite is 0ppm and the Nitrate is 10ppm. I added the Ammo-lock yesterday morning as I was worried about the fish, did a 1/3 water change and then added the stress coat. I also held off feeding the yesterday also.

According to Mergus Atlas 1, an ammonia level of 0.2 milligrams per liter may be lethal, so beware.
It's a pity that you (apparently) missed my suggestion to increase the oxygen level, as I'm pretty sure that the ammonia level would have dropped by now. It's great to discuss water changes and filter systems, but this is for the future and doesn't supply help for you and/or your fish right now.
Keep a close watch on the oilcat (Tatia). If this one gets back to its usual routine, things are improving.
Good luck.

The toxicity of ammonia is heavily dependant on pH. For example, @ pH 7.8, a reading of 1.2mg/l actually equates to 0.04mg/l ammonia as NH3, the rest being NH4+ (ammonium), which is relatively harmless.

Plecs prefer neutral to slightly acidic pH, and the toxicity of ammonia decreases at the pH drops, so initially, as the tank cycles, the ammonia should not be too problematic.

Using ammo-lock neutralises the ammonia, but this prevents the useful bacteria feeding and multiplying, so Id cut back on the ammo-lock.

After ammonia, you need to worry about Nitrite. This is much more toxic, and can be neutralised by the addition of a little salt (pure salt with no anti-caking agents added) 1 gram in 200 litres (5mg/l) will be more than enough to neutralise nitrite @ 0.1mg/l. BUT, Iâ??m not sure if plecs can tolerate any salt at all - so be careful. Also, remember that salt will build up if you keep adding it, and it can only be removed by water changes.

Marc van Arc wrote:According to Mergus Atlas 1, an ammonia level of 0.2 milligrams per liter may be lethal, so beware.
It's a pity that you (apparently) missed my suggestion to increase the oxygen level, as I'm pretty sure that the ammonia level would have dropped by now. It's great to discuss water changes and filter systems, but this is for the future and doesn't supply help for you and/or your fish right now.
Keep a close watch on the oilcat (Tatia). If this one gets back to its usual routine, things are improving.
Good luck.

Hi Marc, I did see the suggestion, apologies for the lack of awknowledgement. I have a diffuser on my fluval filter and I increased the throughput in my airstone based on your advice. If there is another way to help with the oxygen levels I'd be grateful for further recommendation.

I have some waterlife bacteria solution which I will add to the filter this evening doubling the dosage.

Thanks to everyone for all their help, i'm grateful for everyones assistance.

Regards

Paul

There's no need at all to apologise; what bothers me is that the diffusor and airstone apparently didn't work....
I take it that your surface is in full motion and that should do the trick.

Today I took a water sample to a friend of mine at my local LFS. He tested the water using a Tetra test kit and confirmed that the reading was zero. I have been using a different product (Fish dressed as a Doctor??). He suggested maybe too much feeding following the filter change, this of course coincides with Barbie's suggestion.

I would like to thank everyone who has posted agains't this thread and for all the great advice. Considering that fish should unstress a person, it's pretty much been the opposite this week.

Cheers

Paul

Sounds to me like you need to just keep your hands out of the tank! Let it run. I was guilty of this when I first started keeping fish 12 years ago. Since then I have learned to just do a bi-weekly or monthly water change. This would all depend on the how many fish you have and the amount you feed them, more food more cleaning. Algae is a sign of a healthy tank in most cases. I would be more worried if you didn't have any algae growth in your tank. Use water that is dechlorinated before you add it to the tank so you do not disrupt the biological balance.

Buzz,

I don't quite agree with 2-3 weeks between water changes - this may be OK if you have either only a few fish in your tank, or you have very tolerant species that tolerate high levels of nitrate.

I would say that leaving the filter well alone for several weeks is fine - unless it's clogged up, and the one Fluval filter I've got in my five tanks always seems to clogg up before any of the others - may of course be a case of the others have more bypass when the filter is clogged...

Changing water, as long as it's declorinated, is not going to affect the filtration/nitrate cycle in the tank in any negative way - as I stated earlier, I do big water changes on all five of my tanks, and never see any problems like this.

Paul stated in an earlier post that he uses RO water. This should mean that it's free of chlorine too. Of course if it's a mix of tap-water and RO water, the tap water would need to be treated. It's obviously a good idea to add the dechlorinator to the water BEFORE it goes into the tank. I use stress coat for my dechlorinator, mainly because it's cheaper than the other brands - not per volume of the dechlorinator, but if you count per volume of water after treatment stress-coat lasts about 5 times longer.

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Mats