RTC tank size.

matongflush · Post by **matongflush** » 18 Nov 2005, 18:12

How long can an RTC (2feet long) be housed in a 5ft by 3 ft by 2 ft tank. When will it outgrow the tank?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 18 Nov 2005, 18:20

Going by the 4L x 2L x 2L guidelines it's already too big for that tank. The tank is 1.5x the length of the fish in one direction, 2.5x in the long, and 1x in height.

Not only does this mean that the fish is somewhat cramped, it's also meaning that you have quite small water volume for such a large fish, so you'd have to make very frequent water changes...

Obviously, if the water quality is poor, the fish will not grow very quickly, so that would possibly mean that it "can be kept in that tank" for quite some time before it's outgrown the size of the tank. But that's a pretty cruel way of looking at things....

I'm sorry if this wasn't what you wanted to hear.

--
Mats

matongflush · Post by **matongflush** » 18 Nov 2005, 18:23

Going by the 4L x 2L x 2L guidelines it's already too big for that tank. The tank is 1.5x the length of the fish in one direction, 2.5x in the long, and 1x in height.

I thought that the height would be the least of my concerns? Why is that sort of tank height needed?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 18 Nov 2005, 18:45

matongflush wrote:
Going by the 4L x 2L x 2L guidelines it's already too big for that tank. The tank is 1.5x the length of the fish in one direction, 2.5x in the long, and 1x in height.
I thought that the height would be the least of my concerns? Why is that sort of tank height needed?

The 4L x 2L x 2L is really a guideline that will cope with most fish [although very active swimming fish is probably better of with 5-6L on the long side], so I'm not saying that you MUST have 2L height for this particular fish, but I'd say that 1L is too low.

Of course, being low also means less volume, which is also adding to the problems with keeping the water chemistry in good balance. If your tank was another foot high, then it would contain 50% more water, which would improve the dilution of ammonia that the fish produce by 50%.

But I agree that the height isn't the biggest problem, it's the width of the tank that I'm more concerned about. The fish should really have about twice it's length in width. The fact, however, is that your tank is TOO SMALL for a decent environment for a 2 foot fish already. It will not get any better as the fish grows...

Let's assume you manage to keep this fish until it grows it's full five feet. Let's also say that we keep it in a tank that is barely enough to hold it, 3L x 1L x 1L - this isn't a recommendation, but just a mathematical experiment. That makes the tank 15' x 5' x 5' -> that becomes 2800 gallon or 10640 liters. That's the weight of about 6 mid-size cars.

Now, the better measuerment of 20' x 10' x 10' becomes 15000 gal or 56000 liter. Now were looking at something that weighs more than 30 cars...

You probably didn't realize that this fish grows both quickly and to very large size, but I'm sure that the exporters DO know this...

--
Mats

matongflush · Post by **matongflush** » 18 Nov 2005, 19:19

You probably didn't realize that this fish grows both quickly and to very large size, but I'm sure that the exporters DO know this...

I can't help it if you choose to deem me ignorant of these matters. Don't judge a book by its cover. I am actually quite a knowledgeable fishkeeper. I know your help is good intentioned anyway ad I appreciate your feedback. I suggest that you read David Sand's book (The Emperor of the Amazon). This catfish expert actually says that a tank size for the catfish should be around 900 liters. That is WAY different from your expectations. And yes, I will get a bigger tank, but not as big as your mentioned tank. Well, what do you have to say about that?

Also, after the catfish grows even larger, I will still willingly adhere to his guidelines. You should know, as a knowledgeable fishkeeper that the growth rate of an RTC after it reaches 60cm is rather slow.

jellyfish · Post by **jellyfish** » 18 Nov 2005, 21:06

Mats is right - essentially you are setting your RTC up like a goldfish in a bowl.

CEfire · Post by **CEfire** » 19 Nov 2005, 00:43

If you already knew what you wanted to hear in response to your question, you probably did not need to ask it. However, you do not need to attack Mats for his CORRECT and HELPFUL advise. He is just trying to help you out and it may make you feel frustrated that you cannot properly house this fish but you should not take it out on him...

matongflush · Post by **matongflush** » 19 Nov 2005, 06:52

If you already knew what you wanted to hear in response to your question, you probably did not need to ask it. However, you do not need to attack Mats for his CORRECT and HELPFUL advise. He is just trying to help you out and it may make you feel frustrated that you cannot properly house this fish but you should not take it out on him...

Well, I appreciate his advice, however what I am annoyed by is his jumping to the conclusion that I am entirely ignorant of these matters! Never mind anyway, everyone does it one time or another.

No hard feelings. I decided on getting an even bigger tank (7.5ft by 4.5 ft by 3 ft) How long will the RTC be able to live in it before I further upgrade?

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 19 Nov 2005, 08:55

I suggest that you read David Sand's book (The Emperor of the Amazon).

At one time in the past, David Sands was one of THE authorities when it came to keeping catfish, back in the days when he was the first -or at least one of- who bred fishes like Sturisoma panamense, and shared his experiences with the catfish-keeping world. That was when the British Catfish Association was alive and at large (it's the evolutionary predecessor of this site!).

he was the one that started feeding squezed open peas to catfish-fry, for example, or at least wrote about it; also his excellent illustrated articles about keeping Parauchenipterus fischeri stands in my minds' eye (yeah, I know the name's changed

).

later on, however; Mr sands seemed to have lost interest, a perfect example is shown when you compare the badly written "Back to Nature's Guide to Catfishes" with the quite good "fishkeepers' guides to African/Asian/South American catfishes", and last but not least his outstanding "Catfishes of the World"-series.

I'm quite sure "Emperor of the Amazon" is written at a more recent time, when he obvious lost most if not all of his motivation to do things right, and instead opted for the "writing for money" option.

keeping a 5-foot fish that can weigh 30 kilo's or so in a 900L tank is sheer idiocy; not even calves or pigs in the bio-industry get THIS cramped, it's sheer gibberish

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 19 Nov 2005, 10:42

I think Mats advice is excellent. However my opinion (and what I think mats is also trying to get across) is that this species should not be kept in captivity full stop (period).

The only place that is suitable for them is huge public aquaria and the hobbyist that can house them in a suitably sized pond.

matongflush · Post by **matongflush** » 19 Nov 2005, 13:25

keeping a 5-foot fish that can weigh 30 kilo's or so in a 900L tank is sheer idiocy; not even calves or pigs in the bio-industry get THIS cramped, it's sheer gibberish

I understand very well just what you mean. I am not attacking you, but what you says shows just how myopic you are. Obviously I mentioned tank upgrades!!! And in my previous post I said that I would be getting an even bigger tank! Gosh, so this means that I have to put a 6 inch arapaima in a 2000gallon tank??? (Not that I do not understand the requirements of an RTC.) You are talking to one dedicated fishkeeper, so watch who you are calling idiot! So lets be constructive and lets get going.

I'm quite sure "Emperor of the Amazon" is written at a more recent time, when he obvious lost most if not all of his motivation to do things right, and instead opted for the "writing for money" option.

Please substanciate your claim.

mokmu · Post by **mokmu** » 19 Nov 2005, 14:27

To be quite frank, it is pretty scary that the 5 foot cat is kept in 237.7 gallon sized tank. For that size just get or make a pond for it. You wont get flamed as much and the fish will definitely be happy.

I sent you PM.

Regards,
Mike D.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 19 Nov 2005, 17:37

I am not attacking you, but what you says shows just how myopic you are

Myopic??? WTH does that mean? probably not anything good.....
btw it SHOULD read "what you say -without 's'- shows just etc"; if you insult people, you might as well use proper grammar; otherwise it gives the impression of having stunted intelligence.

your remark certainly shows that in fact you ARE attacking me, and also shows your short-tempered nature to anyone not agreeing with your "way" of fishkeeping.....

I am actually quite a knowledgeable fishkeeper

oh? your actual deeds speak another language than your boasts......

Or is it "knowledgeable-but willingly-choose-to-ignore-the facts-because-I-do-what-I-want-and-damn-the-consequences"?

In case you didn't notice (or don't WANT to notice

); asking for advice and then throwing it all aside, or buying a potential large or huge fish first and then "getting a suitable tank in the somewhat future" is FROWNED upon on this forum.

Please substanciate your claim

I already did; check the publication data of that book; check the "back to nature guide" Vs the "Tetra-Press booklets", and the "Catfishes of the world-series". plenty of hard evidence.

and if you don't take my word for it -of wich I'm pretty sure, given the volatile way you react to my post- just check the "books"-section of this site; all the books mentioned by me are in that section, with reviews written by the catfish-professionals also running and contributing this very site.

matongflush · Post by **matongflush** » 19 Nov 2005, 18:04

Can the moderators please lock this thread, it has outlived its usefullness. Sidguppy, I will send you a PM instead of arguing here.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 19 Nov 2005, 18:19

matongflush wrote:Please substanciate your claim.

An excerpt from the "where are they now" file...

http://www.problempets.co.uk/homevisits.asp

http://animalplanet.co.uk/worstpet/feature1.shtml

Jools

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 19 Nov 2005, 18:24

matongflush wrote:Can the moderators please lock this thread, it has outlived its usefullness. Sidguppy, I will send you a PM instead of arguing here.

I don't think it ever was useful. It's just like every other post along the same lines.

Jools