cory's in a 10

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 13 Jun 2005, 15:07

I am thinking about setting up a planted 10 gallon with a pair of Blue rams. I was wondering if I can put cory's in their what type would you recommend and how many?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 13 Jun 2005, 15:30

Sure thing, you can have a few (5 or so) medium sized cories in there.

I don't know what temperature the Rams like best, but you need to look at which cories are OK with the temperature you want with the rams. Many cories live at higher altitude and thus lower temperature. But you should be able to find some that matches just about all temperatures from 18'C to 28'C [not the SAME species, however].

Then it becomes a question of what you can get to be combined with what you like... [It's probably a good idea to make a list of all the candidates from a size/temperature aspect, and then go find the species you can get from your favourite fish supplier(s)...]

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Mats

Post by **corybreed** » 14 Jun 2005, 01:43

Rams like warmer water 78 degrees or higher. Corydoras sterbai would be a good choice for the warmer water.

Maek

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 14 Jun 2005, 13:57

Here is what I'm thinking. One pair of blue rams, 4-5 Sterbai cories, and 5 neon or glowlight tetras. Does this sound good. And what plants wood you recommend for a 10 gallon. I have had a little experience with plants, but not alot. And could you recommend the substrate you would use.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 14 Jun 2005, 14:12

That combo seems OK. You could probably have a few more neon's, but it's always better to be conservative when starting the tank up, and increase the fish if you see that the nitrate stays low. And of course, you may want to use the extra space for a few Otocinclus or a single Ancistrus or some such, to keep the algae from taking over.

Substrate for the cory's should be very fine gravel (2mm) or sand. You can use play-sand that is sold in most DIY shops in America. Don't lay sand more than 3/4" thick.

Plants: Whatever takes your fancy, the fish don't really care what the plants are. Obviously, plants that grow really big aren't suitable for that size tank, but other than that... Some that I've had experience with:
Vallisneria spp. The twisted variety seems to grow smallest, and is probably best for your tank. Grows quite rapidly.
Cabomba. Fine leafs. Needs quite a bit of light and grows well as long as you don't have herbivores... [Like my rosy barbs or goldfish, who consider that sort of thing an extended feeding session

]
Amazon swords (Echinodrus sp ??). Another easy to keep plant.

I'm sure others have other thoughts and opinions.

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Mats

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 14 Jun 2005, 14:18

So, i think I will go with 2-3 zebra otos, 6 neons, 4 cories, and a pair of blue rams. What order would you add these in. And do the plants grow in the sand substrate.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 14 Jun 2005, 14:28

In lack of other guidance, the general rule is "Least expensive fish first", so Neon's then...

Once you've got the tank cycled, you add the rest of the fish in whatever order, really. None of them are going to be territorial against the other types of fish, so it doesn't really make any big difference. I'd say the Oto's should go in last.

Of course, if you have some "spare" fish that are known to be hardy (barbs, guppy, goldfish, etc), you could use them as temporary inhabitants while the tank is cycling, and assuming they survive, move them back when you get the first "real" fish in the tank.

Plants grow qute well in sand, but you may want to put a layer of some sort of mulch underneath the sand, for instance some peat. If you buy peat at the garden centre, make sure it's not fertilized or have other additives, just pure peat is what you want. Boil it before you add it to the tank.

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Mats

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 14 Jun 2005, 14:45

Would Anubias be good. They stay small and are very hardy plants.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 14 Jun 2005, 14:49

laurab5 wrote:Would Anubias be good. They stay small and are very hardy plants.

Never had any of those, but yes, I'm sure they would. Can be planted on the wood, with a little effort...

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Mats

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 15 Jun 2005, 03:38

Laura, I would stay away from Cabomba in a small tank. Cabomba grows about 8" a day (a slight exaggeration!) and you will be cutting it back constantly. It won't be fun.

In a 10 gal, the best plants are the slow growing ones. You mentioned Anubias - great choice.

If you haven't picked out a cave for the Rams yet, a good one would be an upside-down half coconut shell, with Anubias attached to the fibers with staples. Or sewing thread, if you prefer.

If you stock cories, please use sand!

Crypts (Cryptocoryne species) grow well in sand. Java fern, Java moss, all the usual suspects for a slow-growth tank would work in a 10 gallon. Don't plant them. Attach them to wood, or tie them to glass beads, and weigh them down.

If you stock Otos, you won't have to worry about algae and you can run your light 10 - 12 hours a day.
Otherwise, I would be conservative about the lighting.
On my 10 gallon catfish tank, I only run the light about 5 hours a day. The plants are fresh and green, and I have 0 - that's 0 - visible algae. I have to supplement the Otos' diet with Sera tablets. They eat like horses!

Deborah

Post by **Shane** » 15 Jun 2005, 04:06

I have collected rams alongside C. venezuelanus "black," C. septentrionalis, and C. habrosus. These are whitewater habitats. Dave Snell wrote a nice article for TFH sometime ago on collecting rams with Jools and I in Venezuela. Anyone have the issue handy? Zebra otos and neons are from different habitats (not to imply they will not work well in the tank).
-Shane

shammonds · Post by **shammonds** » 15 Jun 2005, 22:52

One pair of blue rams, 4-5 Sterbai cories, and 5 neon or glowlight tetras

Does that sound like an awful lot of fish for a 10gal tank to anyone else?

Blue rams @ ~2" x 2 = ~4"
Sterbai cories @ ~2.5" x 4 = ~10"
neon tetras @ ~1" x 5 = ~5"

That's like 20 inches of fish in a 10gal tank, or about double the recommended fish load in most of MY references. Am I the one that's missing the boat here... does this mean that I can go buy more fish?

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 16 Jun 2005, 04:37

It really depends on your tank management skills.
A properly maintained and structured 10 gallon tank can hold a surprising number of fish.
Notice I say "structure", because you have to have the plants, wood, rocks, hiding places, substrate just right to make all inhabitants happy. Small tank management is really a whole field unto itself.

Deborah

shammonds · Post by **shammonds** » 16 Jun 2005, 08:00

W00t! Fish store, here I come! I finally get to use up my credit from the last batch of cories I delivered!

Incidentally I checked another book of mine which uses surface area as a guide rather than water volume. They go with 1" of fish per 10"^2. That sounds more like it!

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 16 Jun 2005, 16:15

It does sound like a lot of fish for a 10 gal.tank. It's a subjective thing. I have 11 Tetras, 8 Paleatus and 10 Otos in a 75 gallon tank. I enjoy watching the Cories swim quickly. During mating, the hide and seek games are quite interesting. I never saw these games in a smaller tank. They might have occured, but on a smaller scale. During mating, there's one male who hovers at midtank level for a good 30 seconds. He looks left and right, then at the glass. (At this point it's difficult to tell who is chasing who.) The midtank hoverer is always first to the female.

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 28 Jun 2005, 23:03

Unfortunately, here where I live, there is no LFS that has good live plants. So, do you think the cories and rams would care if I just put a ton of artificial plants instead of live ones. I know there are some disadvantages of plastic plants, but with plastic you can always take them out and vacuum the sand.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 29 Jun 2005, 09:18

There's one very obvious differences between artificial plants and real ones:
Artificial plants don't grow.

This can be seen as both an advantage and a disadvantage.
- It's an advantage, because what you buy is what you've got, and it stays that way.
- It's a disadvantage, because one of the benefits of plants is that they take up nitrate and some other waste products from the water, which means slightly easier maintenance.

A few more differences, which may be less important, but still:
- Artificial plants aren't going to be eatend by herbivores.
- Artificial plants don't need any particular care, other than cleaning from algae (some Oto's will do that nicely).

I don't think the fish will care that much, as long as it gives them somewhere to hide.

Are you seriously saying that none of your local fish shops sell plants, or just that they don't sell the plants you want?

--
Mats

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 29 Jun 2005, 13:59

The only store around here that sells plants is Petsmart. I knew about the nitrate thing, but with artificial you can always vacuum were plants are. Petsmart sells some plants, but not the right kind. When you see it, you won't be able to tell that they are fake. I will have some driftwood and rocks for the rams to hide and breed.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 29 Jun 2005, 14:58

laura,
I've had the same problem as you when it comes to plants. I took a chance a few years back and started ordering them over the internet. The cost of shipping is the most expensive part. But, you can get a wider variety. Some places are better than others. Everybody has their favorites.

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 29 Jun 2005, 16:15

I am hoping to get the tank setup within the next 3 weeks. It has been running for several months. Used to be a fry tank. Going to go with a sand that is tan-peach color. Will put a little over an inch. But I am not sure when I will get the fish. I have 6 african cichlid babies that i will give to the LFS in a month. That should be $20. Enough to get the cories and tetras.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 29 Jun 2005, 16:19

From what I've read, you probably want the sand to be slightly under an inch, rather than over. The problem with "deep" sand is that it tends to cause pockets where no fresh water gets to, and aneorobic break down starts to occur, which can lead to bad smell and in severe cases dead fish.

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Mats

jen.nelson · Post by **jen.nelson** » 29 Jun 2005, 17:28

Depth of sand really depends on whether you go with planted or unplanted. If it's planted you'll need more than an inch (at least in the area with plants) to keep the plants anchored. The plant roots will keep the sand stirred up an aerated in a well-planted tank. In a sparsely planted situation, it's easy enough to rake through the sand with your fingers during water changes. I was really concerned about the anaerobic pockets thing, but haven't had a problem with it, really.

I've also found that having larger cories really helps to keep the sand stirred up. Ever since I added the larger Brochis, the landscape changes every day! (I have to uncover the bubble wand/airstone almost daily and I think they're playing soccer with the moss balls when I'm not looking...)

Jen

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 30 Jun 2005, 14:43

I have some good news. I found a store that has live plants. I will be putting Cabomba and swords in the tank. Now, I have a question. I have some sand that has peat moss mixed around in it. It was used to build our green in our backyard. I am going to get more peat, but about how thick of layer of peat do I need and how thick of sand do I need? Should I just buy sand from the LFS. Do I plant the plants in the peat, or do I plant them in the sand and let the roots grow to the peat? And as the fish go, I have to go with 4 bronze cories and a pair of blue rams. Then I'll get 2 Oto's. The temp. will be 78F and PH 7.5.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 01 Jul 2005, 17:30

I wouldn't use peat that is mixed with sand in some way, because there's a big chance that additives have been added to the moss-peat, such as fertilizers. This will certainly do no good for your fish, even if it's great for the plants, and you'll probably get plenty of algae...

Make sure that any peat you use is just plain PEAT, with no additives.

As to planting, as long as the plants are into the substrate, they'll find their way to the good stuff in the peat plenty quick, don't worry about it. You only need a thin layer of peat, about half an inch I would think.

Also bear in mind that peat will lower the pH in the tank...

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Mats

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 01 Jul 2005, 18:13

The sand with peat has no additives, it is from my Dad's sand pit company. Also, I stained the peat out and the dirt 5 times to get it clean. Here is what I am thinking, 0.5" of peat and 0.5" of sand. If you could tell me anything that needs to be adjusted I would appreciate. I know peat brings PH down. My water is 7.8. I plan on putting half tap and half rain water in to the tank to get the PH to 7.4. I hope the peat brings it to 7.2.

Thanks for your help

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 01 Jul 2005, 23:39

I got some peat moss. It doesn't say if it has additives or is fertilized. It is Ferti-lome Pure Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss. So does it sound safe.

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 04 Jul 2005, 14:11

Well, I got my fish on Saturday. A pair of beautiful Blue rams and 3 arched cories( Corydora Arcuatus). One died this morning, pretty sure it was an internal injury. Tommorow I will go get a new one and will purchase one more for 4 total. The LFS across town has Oto's. 3 for $5. Trying to talk my parents to take me over. I will post when I get my 2 cories and 3 oto's.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 04 Jul 2005, 14:35

Remember that you're not supposed to add too much new fish at once. Let the ones you've got settle in, then add some more. Look at it from the positive aspect: You get add new fish in the tank in a couple of weeks too! Particularly with Oto's, they like a nice settled tank, so they will appreciate the plants having settled in and perhaps got a little bit of algae growth, etc.

Otherwise, it sounds nice.

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Mats

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 04 Jul 2005, 14:41

This tank is really established. I had been running it with the light on for a week. Plus, this filter has been running for months. All of the fish are really active. I have decided that I will not be getting tetras.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 04 Jul 2005, 14:45

Yes, I did read back on the subject and saw that it was a tank that was already established, which is good.

But you're still putting stress on the new arrivals just by moving them into the new tank. Adding more (also stressed) fish to the mix isn't going to be beneficial to anyone but yourself [and that's only if it's successfull, if it fails, you won't be very happy either].

Tetras were certainly an "optional extra"...

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Mats

cory's in a 10

cory's in a 10

alright!