PlanetCatfish.com

Hey.
I'm toying with the notion that after I move my tank, just making the bottom sandy instead. I have some corys and banjo cats that would probably appreciate it.
A few questions :
How hard is sand to clean/keep clean?
Would this be too much of a shock to the fish moving and then having altogether new substrate?
How much sand would I need for a 75G?
What type of sand, are there different types

Thanks guys,
Steph

All of my tanks are sand and the cats love it. The Barbels of the cats are adapted for searching through the substrate and they apreciate it. Naturally undergravel filters are useless with sand as they pack down hard. As for the change over, as long as you plan ahead and minimise the time you should be fine. Any change of this scale will be stressful for the fish and yourself . Keep as much of the original water and keep the filter alive if possible.

Power filters can be an issue if they get sand in the impeller housing. This can be avoided if you cover the intake with a spange type filter, (which adds a bonus biological media, but be careful if the sponge gets to cloged it can be hard on the motors). I use sand in three tanks and collected all of it from a freshwater riverbed then seived and washed it thoughly. As a bonus my plants seem to do much better in the sand substrate than gravel, and the fish appreciate it too. You can buy all sorts of sand from lfs, black or white colored sands look really nice but be aware that white sand reflects plenty of light and can be hard on the eyes of low-light fish.

I have playsand in all four of my home tanks, and with enough duckweed, there is NO light reflection.

The hardest part about switching from gravel to sand was trying to pull a half dozen kuhli loaches from the gravel bucket, after I thought I had netted them all prior to pulling the gravel out!

Keep all the water you can, leave the filter elsewhere while you switch the substrate; my tanks were all under 30 gallons, so I did the switch per tank all at once. In a larger tank, I don't know how quick you could manage that.

Above all, RINSE. And rinse again. And again! But no matter how much you rinse, the sand will still be dusty when you drop it in the tank. But fyi and all...

Yeah, that's another issue...Kuhlis.
I'm sure I'll be picking them out of my gravel bucket as well. I have a large Horse-faced loach that is gonna be interesting to net also.
One more question.
The last time I moved (which was only a twenty minute drive) I placed my Black Ghost Knife in a 20G bucket verus bagging him. He's about 14 inches long; he seemed to stress out much less this way. Is the bucket transfer method feasible on a longer trip for my BGK?

I must emphasise what Taratron already emphasised - wash, rinse and then wash and rinse the sand again and again! I washed the hell out of my yellow silica sand and still it turned the water a pale yellow.

And after a year I still had pale yellow water. It looks good, but I found it a pain.

Hi there!

I struggled with the question of what substrate to choose when I set up my 50-gallon. After much research and reading, I decided on sand, for no reason other than I had become absolutely smitten with my cory cats and wanted to do anything necessary to make them happy. I dragged my better half from store to store to find the perfect sand - not too light, not too dark, not too coarse, not to fine... I finally settled on Nature's Ocean black beach sand. Some observations/thoughts:
1. I am so very happy that I chose sand. I have spent hours just watching the catfish enjoy sifting through it, and their barbels have grown significantly.
2. From my research, I was very concerned about the substrate becoming anaerobic. I comb through it with my fingers at least weekly, but have never discovered pockets of gas or any signs of such a problem.
3. I have a couple live plants (soon to be more), and the plants have just taken off in the sand, despite the totally inadequate lighting, lack of fertilizer, etc.
4. I toyed with the idea of buying play sand; I read that it was dustier, and the play sand wound up not being the size (gradation) that I was looking for. I was committed to rinsing it well, and resigned to my tank being cloudy for a while (again, based on my research). I was happy that I purchased what I did, as the rinsing was much less effort, and the tank was cloudy for less than an hour - the sand is very evenly graded, so there's not nearly as much in the way of fines to cause such trouble. It settles down quickly, too, after my "combing" through it during cleanings, too.
5. If you have an acrylic tank, you'll need to be mindful of not getting any sand particles between the tank and whatever you're wiping it with.
6. I find that because of the ability of the cories to really work it over, there's just not much to clean up every week, whereas the gravel seemed to trap and hide away bits of food and such.

As for how much, my LFS guy said his rule of thumb was a pound per gallon. I bought three 20-lb bags and used two for my 50-gal. In terms of shock simply because of the new substrate - when my cories were moved from the QT (which has a shallow layer of gravel) to the new tank, they were just this side of jubilant.

One thing to watch out for as you're shopping for sand is that, if you're shopping at a pet/fish store, the sand is going to be focused at the marine aquarium market. As such, you will find sand mixes that contain shell, the calcium carbonate from which will have an impact on both your water hardness and pH. Stay away from anything that indicates that it has shell, or "calcium" or will help with water buffering, etc. Silica sand is inert in that regard.

Hope that's helpful...
Jen

When I moved last time, I put my fish in large rubber maid 20 gallon totes with lids(only partialy filled). I used 3 of them and put fish and plants in them. Hang on filters and heaters where used on the totes until i got the tanks set back up. Worked like a charm.

Thanks SO much all the info.
I have decided to change over both of my tanks to sand.
My 30G is here with me, so I'm gonna convert it first. I would prefer darker sand, so I'll have to check out the Nature's Ocean black beach sand.
My 75G is a planted tank; I'm glad to hear that I can keep my plants in sand.
I am moving it next week, so I'll let ya know how things go.

I recently emptied out a 29 gallon tank and divided the occupants into (2) 10 gallon tanks. The gravel substrate I had in the 29 was the generic store brand. It was much too big for any plants to grow in and the Aeneus Cories in the tank seemed miserable. The tank was impossible to clean. The 10 gallon tanks have a combo of sand and Flora Base(a plant growing substrate). I mixed them at about 50/50. So far, so good. The behavior of the Aeneus is like night and day (I'm sure getting the Cherry Barbs out of the tank helped more than anything). They dig, play and seem to act like a group of Cories. They just laid there before. I was going to put some inhabitants in (3) different 10's, but the Cories were doing so well together, why split them up? I have plant cuttings in the 3rd tank. They're growing quite rapidly and I haven't had time to set up a DIY CO2 system yet. I'm sticking with the same weekly water changes. I'm just a bit more gentle with the vaccuuming. If anything, the cleaning seems a bit easier.

Eheim ceramic impeller shafts snap if you stare at them long enough. Eheim will tell you it's objects in your tank, such as "sand" or "plant material." I use the substrates that work well for the tank inhabitants. I keep a back-up impeller on hand for the Eheims. The 10 gallon tanks have Marineland filters with BioWheel.

CFG:
Please make sure that the sand is for freshwater inhabitants and it doesn't impact the pH. Some of the products out there are made for C*****d tanks and "buffer" to a higher pH. Similar to a saltwater tank's needs. It should say so on the label.

Tropic Isle Tahitian Moon Sand:
"Can be used in fresh or saltwater tanks. Will not affect pH. Extra Fine Grade."

Sounds good to me, and the price is around $15.00 for one 20lb bag (on-line).

Now I get to call around to the LFS's and see who can get it in and at what prices.

Is "extra-fine" too fine a grade?

Hello - you might want to check out the Tahitian Moon Sand in person if possible. I thought it looked a bit sharp on the edges versus the more rounded sand. I loved the way it looked, but was concerned about the fish injuring themselves on the sharp edges. Obviously an issue of personal preference, but thought I'd share the results of my hours of sand-shopping!

Jen

Thanks a bunch for the tidbit, Jen. I really appreciate you sharing your sand shopping experience.
I'm new in my town and I work nights, so I haven't made it to all the LFS's around here.

Nah, I definitely need something comfy for my banjos and corys and kuhlis (Oh my !)

So, where did you get your sand? At your LFS? Online?

I'm smitten with the black sand, but definitely need some that's gonna be smooth for catfish bellies and such.

Thanks again,

Steph

I'm just going to throw into the discussion that Tahitian Moon Black Sand ("Super Naturals Aquarium Gravel from Around the World") from CaribSea, is an absolutely wonderful sand for freshwater tanks. It is ideal for Corydoras, the particle size is just right. The Panaques can fling it around, and it settles right back down. I grow plants in it, and turn under the fishpoop for fertilizer.

Stare at the particles through the bag - you will see they are rounded, like grains of Cream of Wheat. This tells you they will not be sharp or abrasive. There are probably many good sands out there, but this one is great.
You don't have to get it in black, but black looks good and works with my open-top, natural light set-up.

Hope this helps.

Deb

deb, I'm happy that the Tahitian Moon Sand worked out for your fishies. I really pondered using it, because I loved how it looked.

catfishgrrl, I was able to look at sand at the LFS that has a really good selection of supplies. I was lucky in that marine aquariums are very popular here, so there's lots of supplies for that side of the hobby (and, like I said, a lot of the sand seems to be aimed at the marine market). My sand is a salt-and-pepper type blend, rather natural-looking.

Happy shopping!

Jen

I liked the darker sand, too. I got the Onyx sand. The combo of the Onyx and the Flora Base has been an awakening for the Aeneus. I was able to feed them freeze dried tubifex last night with tweezers. They haven't accepted that for over a year. I buried the rest in the substrate. They went crazy digging and uprooting the plants. I didn't care. They were so active and wiggley!

Went to a LFS, that I hadn't been to and the guy was less than helpful. I explained that I was looking into sand for my tanks and they were freshwater mainly inhabited by catfish. The store even had a 20lb bag of the Tahitian Black Sand, and I was going to get it until he commented,
"Yeah, you can go ahead and get that, but I'm tellin' ya, you'll hate that dark sand. Sand is basically for marine set-ups, ya know. We'll sell this to ya, then you can come back and we'll sell ya some gravel after ya clean out all your sand..."

Yeah, I didn't bother explaining to him that if was for the corys benefit, and that the darker sand wouldn't reflect as much light.

He didn't seem like the cory type, if ya know what I mean.

cfg:
photo from before:

These Aeneus never really moved unless I neared the tank. When they saw me coming, they scattered out of fear. Looking back on the situation, they were either sitting on top of driftwood or at the glass, like the above photo. The lower one has no barbels at all. It was bad.

Photo from this morning's feeding of baby brine shrimp:

A few are at the glass, but not for long. They're in constant motion, digging, sniffing. You know, like Cories do. If I hold a cube of freeze dried tubifex, they'll tear at it like there's no tomorrow. Going on their backs! I've never seen Cories eat so quickly. When the food's gone, they look at me for more!

Thank you both. Sorry to be redundant but I couldn't come up with the right search terms.

Danny,
Just curious have you switched to sand?
If so, how did it go?

Steph

Haven't switched to sand yet. New York temperatures are varying between 70 and 90 lately and I don't want to add more stress to the tank at this time. In the Fall when the heater kicks back on and the temperature stabilizes at 75 or so, I'll make the switch.

catfishgrrl wrote:Is the bucket transfer method feasible on a longer trip for my BGK?

Yes, in fact it can be better. EVEN better is a good sized beer cooler...

Jools

jen.nelson wrote:Hi there!

I struggled with the question of what substrate to choose when I set up my 50-gallon. After much research and reading, I decided on sand, for no reason other than I had become absolutely smitten with my cory cats and wanted to do anything necessary to make them happy. I dragged my better half from store to store to find the perfect sand - not too light, not too dark, not too coarse, not to fine... I finally settled on Nature's Ocean black beach sand. Some observations/thoughts:
1. I am so very happy that I chose sand. I have spent hours just watching the catfish enjoy sifting through it, and their barbels have grown significantly.
2. From my research, I was very concerned about the substrate becoming anaerobic. I comb through it with my fingers at least weekly, but have never discovered pockets of gas or any signs of such a problem.
3. I have a couple live plants (soon to be more), and the plants have just taken off in the sand, despite the totally inadequate lighting, lack of fertilizer, etc.
4. I toyed with the idea of buying play sand; I read that it was dustier, and the play sand wound up not being the size (gradation) that I was looking for. I was committed to rinsing it well, and resigned to my tank being cloudy for a while (again, based on my research). I was happy that I purchased what I did, as the rinsing was much less effort, and the tank was cloudy for less than an hour - the sand is very evenly graded, so there's not nearly as much in the way of fines to cause such trouble. It settles down quickly, too, after my "combing" through it during cleanings, too.
5. If you have an acrylic tank, you'll need to be mindful of not getting any sand particles between the tank and whatever you're wiping it with.
6. I find that because of the ability of the cories to really work it over, there's just not much to clean up every week, whereas the gravel seemed to trap and hide away bits of food and such.

As for how much, my LFS guy said his rule of thumb was a pound per gallon. I bought three 20-lb bags and used two for my 50-gal. In terms of shock simply because of the new substrate - when my cories were moved from the QT (which has a shallow layer of gravel) to the new tank, they were just this side of jubilant.

One thing to watch out for as you're shopping for sand is that, if you're shopping at a pet/fish store, the sand is going to be focused at the marine aquarium market. As such, you will find sand mixes that contain shell, the calcium carbonate from which will have an impact on both your water hardness and pH. Stay away from anything that indicates that it has shell, or "calcium" or will help with water buffering, etc. Silica sand is inert in that regard.

Hope that's helpful...
Jen

Jen, in reading this info, I'm curious -- how would you know if there were gas pockets? I just did half my tank with a gravel/sand substrate and will do the other half next week, once I'm sure fish have acclimated well. You said you sift through sand weekly but found no gas. How does one find gas?

renie wrote: Jen, in reading this info, I'm curious -- how would you know if there were gas pockets? I just did half my tank with a gravel/sand substrate and will do the other half next week, once I'm sure fish have acclimated well. You said you sift through sand weekly but found no gas. How does one find gas?

If you see bubbles when stirring the sand, you've got gas in the sand.

--
Mats

MatsP wrote:

renie wrote: Jen, in reading this info, I'm curious -- how would you know if there were gas pockets? I just did half my tank with a gravel/sand substrate and will do the other half next week, once I'm sure fish have acclimated well. You said you sift through sand weekly but found no gas. How does one find gas?

If you see bubbles when stirring the sand, you've got gas in the sand.

--
Mats

Mats: uh oh, I just noticed tons of bubbles on top of the water? Is that related to gas in the sand?

We just stirred the sand, and tons of tiny bubbles did in fact appear. What do I do now? Are my fish in danger? I just checked all my water readings -- ammonia is 0; nitrites were 0, but nitrates were high (they've always been high).

Amount of sand depends greatly on how deep you want it. If you keep Echinodorus species (Amazon sword plants) you'll need it pretty deep - up to six inches where they are - as the larger species have deep, extensive root systems, and all are nutrient hogs. The pound-per-gallon suggestion will give you a layer about 2 inches deep - multiply if you need deeper, and you do, with plants.

I use the CaribSea product scatterd on top of the florite/laterite substrate sandwich in my planted tanks, less than a quarter of an inch, for the corys' pleasure. In the tanks where I keep them, they keep that small amount of sand well stirred with their nose diving,

can you read my response to you in the change gravel to sand topic? thnx

renie wrote:
Mats: uh oh, I just noticed tons of bubbles on top of the water? Is that related to gas in the sand?

I wouldn't have thought so.

We just stirred the sand, and tons of tiny bubbles did in fact appear. What do I do now? Are my fish in danger? I just checked all my water readings -- ammonia is 0; nitrites were 0, but nitrates were high (they've always been high).

The gases formed by anaerobic breakdown would be SH2 (Hydrogen Sulfide), possibly methane and perhaps Nitrogen. Nitrogen isn't bad, but SH2 is definitely not a nice thing to have in the tank, not so much because it hurts the fish [which it likely does], but because it smells of rotten eggs. Methane is pretty harmless and nitrogen is completely harmless.

Of course, if you haven't stirred the sand previously, it may just be a bit of air trapped in the sand itself.

Someone mentioned kuhli loaches, and yes, they do dig tremendously in the sand, so would be great candidates for keeping the sand stirred without manual intervention.

--
Mats