horabagrus brachysoma (sun cat,golden red tail)

Zack · Post by **Zack** » 10 Mar 2003, 03:01

Another asian cat im interested in is the sun cat or golden red tailed (horabagrus brachysoma) like most of the fish iv researched on the internet iv found conflicting info. The cat-e-log says they reach 18 inches and scotcat says they only get 8 inches. Any clue which is right?? Anybody kept them?? Any personal notes??

vulkoq · Post by **vulkoq** » 10 Mar 2003, 06:58

Well... I have three of them, which I bought before I knew about this site. The well-meaning folks at the store said they wouldn't get much bigger than 6 in. or so. A few days after I had popped them in my 30 gal. I found out they'll grow into 18" monsters needing a floor-cracking tank.
That said, I like them a lot. They're reclusive, but on the rare occasions when they're out and about I can't take my eyes off them. They often do an elaborate ritualized
dance that could be fighting or mating; sometimes they hunt up in the plants and swallow big snails whole.
There was a thread a while back about the size info discrepancy; someone claimed to have seen a large specimen validating the 18" claim. I would tend to believe Planet Catfish over other sources.

Zack · Post by **Zack** » 10 Mar 2003, 07:20

Thanks vulkoq, The only reason i questinoed pcs info was because i hadnt seen any pics of fish over about seven inches. What do you keep yours wit?? Are they very aggressive to other fish?? What do you fead them?? How much did you pay?? Do they ever come out during the day?? Have you had them long enough to notice if they grow fast or slow?? Thanks for providing the info youve already given me and in advance for any more.

Post by **Silurus** » 10 Mar 2003, 10:14

They'll actually max out at 20" (50 cm), the 8" part comes from the Baensch Atlas, which is wrong as usual.
They are generally fine with tankmates not small enough to be eaten. Feeding is no problem...most prepared/live/frozen food will do.
Because they are being bred commercially on a large scale, they are fairly cheap as Asian cats go. Expect to pay no more than $10 per fish.

Zack · Post by **Zack** » 10 Mar 2003, 15:33

Thanks again. I'll deffinately keep them in mind when i get a bigger tank.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 10 Mar 2003, 18:37

too bad this "cheap Asian" doesn't show up here, then. I would love to see it live; I haven't seen a live Horabagrus ever; only pics....

Zack · Post by **Zack** » 11 Mar 2003, 02:51

What would you suggest as the minnimum tank size?? Would 125 us gallons be too small??Are they pretty hardy fish?? Would they live alright with oscars or pike cichlids??

vulkoq · Post by **vulkoq** » 11 Mar 2003, 05:22

. What do you keep yours wit??

-- rainbows, dwarf flying foxes, a clown pleco and a sturisoma. A colorful banquet someday for an 18-inch fish...

Are they very aggressive to other fish??

The biggest one evicted the clown pleco from his cave, but more by pushing than by biting. Other than that, not at all.

Do they ever come out during the day??

If you glance at the tank at any given time, they're usually not out. But if you watch the tank for a while they'll get in a territorial dispute sooner or later. Caves are very important to them. If they're not lounging in a cave, they seem to be fighting over a cave.

What do you fead them??

Animal Flake, veggie flake, spirulina, bloodworms, brine shrimp, live worms (tubifex?) I used to have them in with some giant danios and they would eat the fry.

they grow fast or slow??

I got them at 3-4 inches; they have grown about 1 1/2 inches in 4 months.

How much did you pay??

5 bucks a piece. They are cheap cheap cheap, which is unfortunate because a lot of people are going to buy them, like I did, and not have the resources to care for them. I feel guilty picturing them busting out of my little tank. Ultimately a reason to bite the financial bullet and go big, I guess.

Zack · Post by **Zack** » 11 Mar 2003, 05:31

Thanks again. Sounds like an excuse for another tank to me.

I'm glad to hear they aren't fast growers. I think I'll buy two now (as they may not be available later) and just house them in my 55 gallon until this summer; then they will be off into the 150 gallon+ tank I hope to buy. Do they come out at feeding time?? Thanks again.

Post by **Silurus** » 12 Mar 2003, 12:39

Do they come out at feeding time??

Yes, they will.

vulkoq · Post by **vulkoq** » 13 Mar 2003, 06:23

Do they come out at feeding time??

My two bigger ones usually stay hidden for the lights-on feeding. The smallest one sometimes comes out. They all go nuts for the night feeding, though.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 19 Mar 2003, 00:40

Don't feed them for a week and they will come out for sure! Feeding these fish in fits and spurts does them no harm and might even be beneficial.

Jools

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 26 Mar 2003, 13:35

Any opinions as to whether they're a shoaling fish? My two don't get along so I had to separate them. I don't know whether I should have got just one, or a group to defuse aggression.

Post by **Silurus** » 26 Mar 2003, 14:13

They're not. Like most catfishes, they shoal as juveniles, but are generally solitary as adults.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 26 Mar 2003, 18:15

Silurus wrote:They'll actually max out at 20" (50 cm), the 8" part comes from the Baensch Atlas, which is wrong as usual.

HH, What's the source for that size. I agree Baench is wrong as I have seen this fish at at least 10" TL, but 20"/50cm?

Jools

Post by **Silurus** » 26 Mar 2003, 18:36

My source was another rife with errors: FishBase.

According to this reference:

Gopalakrishnan, A. and A.G. Ponniah, 2000. Cultivable, ornamental, sport and food fishes endemic to Peninsular India with special references to Western Ghats. p. 13-32. In A.G. Ponniah and A. Gopalakrishnan (eds.) Endemic Fish Diversity of Western Ghats. NBFGR-NATP Publication. National Bureau of Fish Genetic Resources, Lucknow, U.P., India. 1, 347 p.

<i>Horabagrus brachysoma</i> maxes out at 50 cm TL. Talwar & Jhingran's "Inland Fishes of India & Adjacent Countries" lists 45 cm TL, so there is some truth to this, IMO.

dethjam316 · Post by **dethjam316** » 06 Apr 2003, 01:10

i have two of these guys, one approx. 4 inches and the other about 5...think they are very cool fish if you are up late enough to watch them a bit! the larger one seems to chase the smaller one around quite a bit during late night feeding time, and earlier in the thread it was mentioned that they are generally solitary as adults...is it probably a good idea to separate these guys before they grow much larger? thoughts?

Post by **Silurus** » 06 Apr 2003, 04:21

How large is your tank? You can probably keep them together if your tank is large enough.

dethjam316 · Post by **dethjam316** » 07 Apr 2003, 00:44

currently in a 125. options for moving them are 55 or a 29, which is too small, so really moving the smaller one to a 55 is the only possibility.

Post by **Silurus** » 07 Apr 2003, 02:13

You can probably keep them together for now (there will be altercations, but not serious ones), but if both of them reach anywhere near their max sizes, it will be necessary to separate them.
FWIW, a 55-gallon tank is too small for a 20" fish.

dethjam316 · Post by **dethjam316** » 07 Apr 2003, 02:42

no argument from me that a 55g is way too small for a possibly 20" fish, i was only throwing that out there as a temporary solution for the (currently!) little guy until a new plan for his well-being was devised...

comparitively little info about the keeping of this species is available (at least in significant detail) to some of the more common catfish, and while this thread was still breathing, i thought i'd ask just to be sure. pokey and whaley (as they've been dubbed) are fan favorites among my tanks, you see, so i wouldn't want anything to happen to them!

thanks for you help!

pickles4601 · Post by **pickles4601** » 26 May 2009, 22:44

I just moved my Suncat into a 100 gal tank with a Pleco, Jack Dempsey and a Blue Texas Cichlid. The blue Texas wouldn't leave him alone. He didn't outright attack him he just kept poking at him and making him swim around. I had to move him back into the 20gal, he was bruised and scratched up. Thought he would be tougher.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 27 May 2009, 11:02

here's a picture of a slightly larger Horabagrus, even at this size you can imagine that this active swimmer already needs a roomy tank:

this (sub?)adult Horabagrus shows different dimensions that the big eyed youngsters in the shore

it reminds me of the Ageneiosus of South America.

more "big uns"

I found mentioned in a few articles that the Horabagrus nigricollaris is now critically endangered; is this true?
shame, really.....

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 27 May 2009, 12:35

sidguppy wrote: I found mentioned in a few articles that the Horabagrus nigricollaris is now critically endangered; is this true?
shame, really.....

I've seen loads of 2-3" nigricollaris recently (obviously in the UK). Possibly commercially bred? but hard to think of something being endangered when i could buy 100 of them today if i wanted to. Pier had a nice tank of 'em & they've been seen elsewhere too.

yeattsca · Post by **yeattsca** » 28 May 2009, 00:26

They get to 12" in a large tank, but will only reach their full potential 18+...yes "+", if they are housed in a literally monster tank, like 500+,they will obviously get that large in the wild tho. A good website when finding info on big fish is: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/, real great site if you don't already know about it, also check out some of their vids. on youtube, they put a whole new meaning to the word overkill!

. What do you keep yours wit??

-- rainbows, dwarf flying foxes, a clown pl*co and a sturisoma.

They must be really small, I had 2 that were 6" and they ate 20 full grown FEMALE guppy's in about 3-4 days!

Don't house these guys with Oscars, if one tries to eat them it will kill them both!!!

BTW: if your lucky I think someone @ monsterfishkeepers has a pic of about a 20" one!

Post by **Shane** » 01 Jun 2009, 13:13

Richard (and others)
Yes, both spp were being commercially bred in large numbers as of several years ago. Lucky for us... the first wild caught specimens that showed up in the US were retailing for US $750 each!
-Shane

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 01 Jun 2009, 16:24

Shane wrote:Richard (and others)
Yes, both spp were being commercially bred in large numbers as of several years ago. Lucky for us... the first wild caught specimens that showed up in the US were retailing for US $750 each!
-Shane

Cheers Buddy

$750 ouch - i wouldn't consider that for a Syno Granulosa!!!

(although the first one of those i saw was £1,000!

beta · Post by **beta** » 24 Jun 2009, 07:52

This one looks big too:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rajeevraq/380039037/

horabagrus brachysoma (sun cat,golden red tail)

horabagrus brachysoma (sun cat,golden red tail)

sun cat aggression?

tank size

thanks!

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