New RIO 300 tank

[MatsP]

I really wouldn't stress about the nitrate levels.

You are not going to keep any difficult fish, and my experience has shown that despite high nitrates in tapwater, [most] fish are quite healthy providing you change the water regularly and in large amounts. You run into trouble when you get slack with water changes.

I would spend the extra money on a nice big external filter, or making some sort of water changing device to make those frequent changes a doddle. See here: http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1729

I agree - I should have made that point in my post about the cost of RO unit - it is a nice to have, but for most common fish in the trade, they will live perfectly happily in 50-100ppm nitrate. There are exceptions, but they are rare. Some of the wildcaught, exotic plecos may not like this, but I would say that there are plenty of the commonly available exotics that are fine in these water conditions too.

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Mats

[slakey]

Yeah I don't think I have the money of the space for a RO unit somehow lol...

I try my best to do 50% water change every Thursday for my 125litre tank.
So I guess I'll do the same for my 300litre tank

Also as wood is becoming very hard to find at all my LFS, my dad suggested getting wood from the woods and boiling it :S I said that wouldn't work because well it just wouldn't... What do you lot think?

Also I have some wood in my vivarium for Vairo...

There's one medium sized bit that he doesn't use, so I may take that out, but what would I have to do to get it clean and suitable for the aquarium?

Any decent websites for bogwood/mopani wood? with pictures of what the pieces look like instead of just one picture for them all?

[racoll]

my dad suggested getting wood from the woods and boiling it :S I said that wouldn't work because well it just wouldn't... What do you lot think?

Collecting wood from the wild can be done, but you need to know what you are doing. It basically needs to be dead, dry and not poisonous. Collecting wood has been discussed a thousand times already, so if you need more info, do a forum search.

Any decent websites for bogwood/mopani wood? with pictures of what the pieces look like instead of just one picture for them all?

That's the problem with buying online. Best buy wood in person I think. The "Sumatra" wood that is available now is really nice. You should be able to get this from any branch ( ) of Maidenhead Aquatics. If you can persuade your father to take you to Peterborough, I recommend a trip to the Maidenhead Aquatics there. One of the best shops I have ever been to. They will undoubtedly have this kind of wood. You will also probably end up leaving with some kind of loach!

[slakey]

I've found some nice pieces on ebay.co.uk but I have no money :/ well about £8 in total to last me til end of month... how bad.

[slakey]

Ok update...
The room is painted all that needs to go down now is the new carpet which should be soon, then I can get back to work on setting the tank back up, still only have 4 small-medium sized bits of wood in atm :/

Also not sure if I mentioned this but I was going to go with Severums but once again may have changed my mind.

I might move all my fish, water and plants, decor etc over to my 300... Ans sell my Rio125.
And then get a pair of sevs once the others have passed away, which'd be a long time hopefully.

But I have ran into a problem... it wouldn't be possible would it...
I mean yeah I can move over the plants and decor, but as for the water and fish that's when it's not able. As I'd need to put in 175litres and let that mature but it's not possible as the water line wouldn't be getting filtered, unless I just put the 175litres in and then all the 125litres with fish, but that would mean more then likely me losing all my stock surely?

Unless I fill up the 300 with the 50% water changes I do on my 125? So that's like take me... roughly a month and 1 week to fill up the 300, only with water out from the 125.

[racoll]

Not sure I understand

Why can you not just mature your 300 (with some gunge from your 125, and a few fish), and then sell the 125 in a few months when the 300 is matured?

[Bas Pels]

Unless I fill up the 300 with the 50% water changes I do on my 125? So that's like take me... roughly a month and 1 week to fill up the 300, only with water out from the 125.

Water discarded i nwaterchanges is very well suited for this kind of a job. You may even dilute it, say 100%.

However, although it is nice to use 'alife' water, it is more uefull to reuse old decoration materials - such as wood, plants, and rocks. These contain a lot of good bacteria

and if you can reuse filterstuff, that would make it complete

[slakey]

I was told I could use water from water changes from the 125 to mature the tank... it was only a thought, I can wait for new tap water to mature, just thought that might of sped things up?

I will deffinately put in the wood from the 125

[apistomaster]

I am not the most conservative of fish keepers.
I regularly start tanks with fresh substrate from an established tank, the furnishings and the an established filter plus 25% old water and call it good.
I do this sort of thing not only with catfish but wild discus all the time. If wild discus can handle it so can any other fish.

That's a great looking piece of wood, btw.

[slakey]

I won't be moving the substrate over as it's light coloured and the 300 will be black sand

I'll move over the 3 bits of wood, plant pot, both hydor ario 3 air pumps and the plants and rock

Should hopefully have alot of bacteria that I need to boost things.

But still no luck with the new carpet turning up =/ Hopefully it will soon.

What else should I put in the tank though? As it will be very understocked.

So far going in from 125:
Pair of Rams
3 Three-Lined Corydoras
1 Black Peru Corydoras
2 Kuhli Loach
10-13 Guppies, which I will try and get rid of.

What I'd like:
Atleast another 10 Three-Lined Corydoras or another 7.
Maybe 4 more Black Peru Corydoras.
3 more Kuhli Loach.
Maybe some otto's?
Possibly try a pleco.
And I may try get another pair of GBR's or a pair of golden rams.
*Any other suggestions are welcome*

[MatsP]

I would also rinse the filter sponges of your 125 in the 300 tank. It will make the water gungy, but once the filter sucks that up, it will be a good base for the fish. I would do this in the hours immediately before moving the fish, as the bacteria will starve if there is no production of ammonia in the tank, so with no fish, they would have not nutrition.

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Mats

[slakey]

Ok thanks for that.
I'll fill the 300 up with tap water and then rinse the 125 sponges a week before putting in the fish from the 125?

[MatsP]

Ok thanks for that.
I'll fill the 300 up with tap water and then rinse the 125 sponges a week before putting in the fish from the 125?

I'd still use old tank water to fill the new tank (at least to a part), and definitely do rinse the sponges shortly before (like hours, not days) you put the fish in.

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Mats

[slakey]

Ok.
Well some good news, the carpet is coming Wednesday YAY!!!

So after that's been fitted I can start putting water in, and my 125 is due a water change on the Thursday, so I could do it weds night, then I have part tank full.

Or should I wait to put in all the sand?

[MatsP]

You probably don't want to put sand into the water - whilst that is POSSIBLE, I personally prefer sand first, water later if at all possible. It's hard to not get started immediately with something, but I think it'll be worth the wait to do it right. Last thing you want is to have to empty the tank after it's been put in place. Also, before you fill the tank, make sure it's level, it's both aesthetical and technical reasons for that - a leaning tank obviously looks pretty naff, but it also puts more pressure on one side of the tank than the other, which can eventually cause damager to the tank and leaks - not a good idea to have 300 liters of water on the floor and fish flapping on the sand in the tank when you wake up one morning (that's certainly not "how to make friends with and influence your parents" )

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Mats

[slakey]

Yeah I'll make sure it's level.
Just got to figure out where all the wood will go now :/ have quite a few pieces in there atm and still got the wood from the 125 to go in... And I think I'll chuck the Marsh Root since it won't mix in well with the other pieces.

Picture to come later.

[slakey]

The pictures:







The pictures we're taken with my camera phone, so sorry if they're poor quality.

[MatsP]

I would probably try to push the wood as far back as it would go - it looks better if you have empty space at the front of the tank.

You may also want to stack a little bit higher.

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Mats

[slakey]

Yeah will do, but when I put all that in, I didn't put it how I wanted it.

It will more the likely look different to that once the tank is filled.

As for the wood in my 125 *which will move to 300* should I try clean the algae off and clean the algae off the terracotta pot?

I've currently let 4 pieces of wood soak in boiling hot water for a whole day. I suppose I could fill the bath partially up with hot water and let them soak til the water goes cold?

How long should I soak them for? Should I soak them while the tank is still going through cycle, or should I put in the wood during the cycle?

[MatsP]

If you are just soaking Mopani to leach out some of the tannin, then I would just soak them in a suitable container (builders bucket or a bin for example) and drain the water after 24h. No need for "hot" water or anything like that. If the water is really brown, then drain and do another 24 hours.

The main point about soaking wood is twofold:
1. Make it heavy (water logged) enough to sink - that's mainly the case for non-shop bought wood - most shop bought wood is dense enough to sink anyways.
2. Remove any excessive levels of tannin that would discolour the water. I haven't found that my tanks discolour much from shop-bought mopani wood.

It should not make much difference if you are doing it during cycling or not - but I though we had discussed/agreed avoiding cycling by washing the old filter media in the new tank-water? [You should let the water "settle" for at least 24 hours before doing that, and remember to use a dechlorinator].

Cleaning algae is up to you. A little bit just makes it look natural. Huge amounts makes it look untidy.

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Mats

[slakey]

Yeah I will be washing the 125 sponges in 2hours? before adding the fish in.

But I won't be able to put the fish in the same night that I fill it up will I?

Also I was told by a lady at my LFS that if you can keep the water warm or hot the better :S

[MatsP]

Yeah I will be washing the 125 sponges in 2hours? before adding the fish in.

But I won't be able to put the fish in the same night that I fill it up will I?

Also I was told by a lady at my LFS that if you can keep the water warm or hot the better :S

Correct, you should leave the tank at least 24 hours after filling it before you put fish in (or wash the filters). If nothing else, it will show that your thermostat is working correctly and you don't end up with "cooked fish" (it has been known that thermostats in the heater is broken such that the water ends up being very warm - although, of course not quite ).

Yes, I'm sure keeping the water warm will increase the amount of water introduced into the wood, and the amount of tannin released - but I still don't think release of tannin will be big from that type of wood.

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Mats

[slakey]

You'd be surprised both times I've emptied about 2-3hours after putting boiling water in, it's came out orange quite badly aswell.

So the plan is, fill the 300 with tap water and 50% from the 125, wash the filter media from the 125 in the 300 and put in dechlorinator, then test the next day and if all good add the fish?

Or should I wait til the ammonia kicks in and goes back down?

[MatsP]

The way I would do it is:

• Fill in water from water change of the 125.
• Add up tap-water (with declorinator) to fill up the tank.
• Wait 24 hours.
• Wash filter media in 300
• Wait 2 hours.
• Add fish.

There should be nothing to test, since the water will be ammonia free until you put the fish in.

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Mats

[racoll]

then test the next day and if all good add the fish?

I wouldn't add all the fish, only a couple, so the amount of bacteria you have is in proportion to the amount on ammonia released by the new fish.

There will still be a cycling period, but by building up the stock gradually and using muck/decor from the old tank you should avoid too many problems.

You'd be surprised both times I've emptied about 2-3hours after putting boiling water in, it's came out orange quite badly aswell.

You can wash/soak/boil the wood as much or as little as you like. Personal preference really.

[MatsP]

I wouldn't add all the fish, only a couple, so the amount of bacteria you have is in proportion to the amount on ammonia released by the new fish.

There will still be a cycling period, but by building up the stock gradually and using muck/decor from the old tank you should avoid too many problems.

If we wash the media from the old filter, along with the tank being significantly larger, I'd have said that it should be safe to move all the fish at once.

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Mats

[slakey]

:O Wow really?

So wash the media and add the 62.5 *roughly* water from the 125 and then move the fish in or wait 2hours then move them in?

[MatsP]

:O Wow really?

So wash the media and add the 62.5 *roughly* water from the 125 and then move the fish in or wait 2hours then move them in?

If you want to be able to see the fish when you release them you would need to wait a while (the washing of the mucky sponges WILL cloud the big tanks water - if it doesn't, there's something wrong). You don't want to wait several hours, as the good bacteria needs ammonia to feed off. So you can't wait too long.

And you definitely should not do this the same time as you've just filled the entire tank.

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Mats

[slakey]

Sorry I'm feeling dumb today lol

What shouldn't I do after I've just filled the tank?

[MatsP]

Here's a repost of my earlier ordered list of things to do:
quote="MatsP"]The way I would do it is:

• Fill in water from water change of the 125.
• Add up tap-water (with declorinator) to fill up the tank.
• Wait 24 hours.
• Wash filter media in 300
• Wait 2 hours.
• Add fish.

There should be nothing to test, since the water will be ammonia free until you put the fish in.

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Mats[/quote]

Whether you follow my advice and add all the fish, or racoll's and just move some fish, and then move the rest after a few days is up to you, really. racoll makes a good point that the ammonia may spike if you move all at once.

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Mats