PlanetCatfish.com

grokefish wrote:

racoll wrote:Coming on nicely!

This might sound like a crazy idea, but I would perhaps concentrate less on the fish, in terms of the business aspect.

I would think about making the area just a nice place to hang out in, perhaps like a cafe with tables, water features, plants, decorative features etc. I would even consider not charging people to enter, but make money on providing food and beverages.

You would then, hopefully, get a lot of repeat custom from local folks who just want to chill out in the nice surroundings and admire the fishes.

Do this Viktor!

and good luck fella, you are living my dream lolz.

Or better yet, to prevent "freeloaders", you charge a $5-10 entrance fee, which is also a voucher for refreshments. So if the guests just want to see your fish, then they have to pay. If they want a cup of coffee and a piece of cake, they get it "included in the price".

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Mats

MatsP wrote:

grokefish wrote:

racoll wrote:Coming on nicely!

This might sound like a crazy idea, but I would perhaps concentrate less on the fish, in terms of the business aspect.

I would think about making the area just a nice place to hang out in, perhaps like a cafe with tables, water features, plants, decorative features etc. I would even consider not charging people to enter, but make money on providing food and beverages.

You would then, hopefully, get a lot of repeat custom from local folks who just want to chill out in the nice surroundings and admire the fishes.

Do this Viktor!

and good luck fella, you are living my dream lolz.

Or better yet, to prevent "freeloaders", you charge a $5-10 entrance fee, which is also a voucher for refreshments. So if the guests just want to see your fish, then they have to pay. If they want a cup of coffee and a piece of cake, they get it "included in the price".

--
Mats

+1 this

A local public aquarium in my home town charges about $26.50 entry, and that includes an educational tour. (Granted, this is a large public aquarium). They have a yearly option which is about $38.65, and that gets you unlimited entry, plus discounts in the cafe` and 15 or 20% off for a person that accompanies them.

That could be a possibility - either have a one off fee for people to drop by or have membership. Membership can be charged at a rate of 1.5 - 2.5 times the single entry fee; by having it 1.5 times the entry fee - most people will be inclined to just get it as it's better value for money. If the service does provide cake/coffee, then you may be inclined to give them anywhere between 20-50% off the cost of this for yearly members. (Ensure that the discount still allows for some gross profit).

Not being familiar with the area - but as a perspective, I would be quite happy to pay $5 to sit around with a hot chocolate/coffee. $10 would be cake and coffee. If you get public WiFi that allows for low browsing (no downloading/high content), you may get students camping there. (Unsure if this is a wanted thing or not though ) Just ensure your price balances against the economy - minimum wage in US being $7.25 [source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wa ... ted_States].

For Australian's, a fee of $26 is a little expensive for some, however our minimum wage sits at $15.51 [source: http://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay/national ... fault.aspx] and it is a large coral aquarium, sitting at 2.5 million liters; so their price is justified.

Jumping back to the food business - I think snack food would be a good thing to start out with. Just going on Australian small business wholesale prices, (not familiar with pricing in US), you can buy cans of coke for 55-70c per can, on sell these for $1 - 2.50; chips, about 50c-$1.50 a packet (depending on size), on sell for $1 - $5.. etc. That's another way to generate profit, and as I mentioned, having a discount on items in the Cafe (10-20% off, depending) will make people be more inclined to sign up for a year pass.

Just some ideas. Wishing you luck! I'm looking forward to how this will turn out!

Viktor, you got water in them tanks yet? Kudos to your endeavor!

Ladies, gents, thanks much for the helpful ideas and support. Nope, the ten 240 gal tanks still sit the same, not plumbed, as you see them on the pics above... and, unfortunately the rainy season is here, so the stands are almost always wet. The 3/4" plywood is treated so no rotting but it started to distort/sag in places. One tank's bottom pane cracked because of the heat - there is no canopy over the fish-house yet and the sun is merciless. Two 4500 gal 13'x13'x4.5' tanks have been made by Dolphin Fiberglass Products and are awaiting delivery any moment.

Building the business from scratch and on a shoe string can be very long and stressful, if you let it. The trick is not let it. I've despaired plenty of times but so far rebounded.

After 1 year of laboring, there is still no telling if we'd ever open. There are problems on every corner one turns and if they cannot throw money at the problems, as in hire professionals to handle the problems, whether technical, legal, construction, municipal, code enforcement, etc., they have to solve the problems themselves or with a minimal professional help.

Two biggest obstacles atm are obtaining a Conditional Land Use permit (essentially a re-zoning process) that would allow our intended commercial activity in an Agricultural zone and a "greenhouse" permit. My "greenhouse" fish-house structure has to withstand 160 MPH hurricane wind according to the new code with the canopy still on it. So, whatever I built roughly according to the old code (pre-March 2012; the canopy detaches at 70 MPH and only the cage structure has to withstand 140 MPH wind) has to be rebuilt and/or heavily reinforced.

The Land Use permitting has hit plenty of snags. Having gone through 3 hearings, there are two more public hearings scheduled. Usually, it is a 1.5 year roughly $30,000 process, to give you a flavor.

I am not looking for sympathies (let's keep the thread clean), just a short reality update.

Hi Viktor,

Sympathies aside, I wish you all the luck in the world and hope your dream does not become your downfall.

Chin up it takes guts to engage in anything remotely similar to this. Without folk like yourselves, who have vision and commitment, many people would not get to enjoy the fascinating world of fish keeping, and who knows what becomes of those who see what is laid out before them. We all take our inspiration from somewhere.
Good luck and for the record, what we have here is what we have, what you have there is what you have. It should not be a factor on this thread, yes we can be envious and compare, but you could do that the world over. Well done.

Keep us all upto date with any advancement!

Cheers n Beers.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:The prices vary with the area: in the middle of nowhere in SW FL, one might pay ~$5,000-$10,000 per acre. On the outskirts of towns like Naples (my area), it is ~$10,000-$30,000 an acre. Prime lots: there is no ceiling especially in touristy, commercial spots, perhaps hundreds-of-thousands-to-millions per acre.

In NL prices differ - but land where one is permitted to build a houde on go for 200 euros a square meter if one is extremely lucky, 400 is common, 800 is not unheard of, in urbane quarters

200 euros equals today approximately 250 US $, to put matters in perspective

having 3,600 square meters in an acre, an acre of ground where one would be allowed to build a house on would, therefore, sell for 720,000 euros, or 900,000 US $.

buildable ground is rather expensive

Update: Sept 17 2012

Thank you to all for attention and support.

We have seriously lucked out and finally got our Conditional Land Use permit (essentially a conditional re-zoning permit) on Sept 11, 2012, granted by the Collier County Planning Commission + the Board of Collier County Commissioners. That was the biggest hurdle so far.

The exhibit hall (atrium / shade-house type structure) building permit is the next hurdle. We had to hire an engineer to calculate and devise reinforcements to what I've built so far. We, again, got very lucky to find a nice, reputable, and knowledgeable civil engineer, who did not make me disassemble what I put together in my highly unconventional building ways (see pics ) but build on it. So with new blueprints I will apply for the building permit now and hopefully continue building after having been approved.

Then will come the Certificate of Occupancy, including fire review, traffic, parking review, etc. and we should be able to open our doors... AFAIK ATM. Maybe this winter? Who knows. I don't dare to forecast anymore. I am usually off... well, only by a factor of 2-3

The ten 240 gal tanks still sit the same, not plumbed. The two 4500 gal 13'x13'x4.5' tanks made by Dolphin Fiberglass Products are here too, now awaiting assembly. They come in 4 pieces each.

I'll go take some pics now and post them. Stand by, please.

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temporary ponds

4500 gal tanks

Some wild life... so that this is not so dry... one of our resident baby gators (~1 meter TL)... and lilies donated by a local couple...

Fantastic to see it - great progress update!

Jools

That is so Rad Viktor I love it, your doing what I dream of doing

Overcoming the local zoning and construction codes are often the greatest hurdles any small business has to contend with. Those who control the process rarely have any sympathy and often there is a neighbor or neighbors who object at no cost to themselves but at great costs to the entrepreneur.
It can be really tough code wise when your business is located in hurricane, tornado or high earthquake risk areas.
I wish you the best and it sounds like you are having good success with the details which are often insurmountable.
The local jurisdictions sure want your taxes but then find ways to block your land use. It's this way in the USA no matter where you live.
I wish I had enough money to tear down my small house and rebuild with an attached dedicated fish room.
I have a large enough lot.

Do you ever regret buying your tanks before you have all of your zoning issues resolved?

Very nice! Wish you the best of luck these coming months with construction and getting opened!

Thank you all. Means a lot to me.

penny5h wrote:Do you ever regret buying your tanks before you have all of your zoning issues resolved?

Welcome to the forum! A wishful "yes" and a realistic "no". Yes because I wish things could be done orderly... and in the retrospect the tanks could have waited a while but not after the re-zoning is done. No because overall we had no other choice - both rezoning & other permitting and the construction of the dome and the exhibits had to be done more or less simultaneously. This is a result of having a limited legal window of time to open for business because of the way we funded our Corporation, which is with our retirement funds (check out the "Rainmaker" program offered by a company called "Benetrends"). We don't own the property (well, 3/4 of it), our Corporate Pension Fund does and the IRS has quite a few strings attached, which is rather understandable. Everything comes at a price.

Excited to see what you having coming. Good luck!!!

I just stumbled upon this. Not sure if I want to call Viktor mad or congratulate him on his efforts. All I can really say is that I wish the best of luck and really do hope this works out. If I ever find myself in the area I will certainly visit.

Anything new going on with your project. I'm on pins and needles. You have inspired me!

Wijnands, the jury (aka my wife) is still out on the "mad" verdict but all signs point to an emphatic yes and a life sentence + 117 years of hard labor. I am very grateful for your most kind comments.

Penny, it's a big carriage pulled by one little, rather sickly donkey (me) so you will have to learn to contain yourself Joking of course. You want juice? Here is some more A few weeks back I'd finished drawing the blueprints and submitted an application for a building permit. Yes, I said the building permit - sometimes I put the carriage in front of me. You have already caught me doing it once before

I thought I didn't need a building permit because one doesn't need the permit generally when putting up a greenhouse in the agricultural zone and so I was semi-happily tinkering for over a year. Moreover, I was just modifying the existing screen enclosure. Local newspaper Naples Daily News decided to write a column on our efforts and of course they snapped a photo and published. The County Commissioners saw the pic and the signs of construction going on and this is how I got caught. Turns out when a greenhouse is attached to a house and is not going to be used for agricultural purposes, one needs the building permit. It took a good effort to clarify this info alone. The County was nice enough not fining me and just told me to get a permit at this stage but I am dealing with lots of different County employees and departments and who knows what will happen and when.

As mentioned above, the next big hurdle was finding not only a trustworthy and reasonable civil engineer but one that would not make me disassemble a year's worth of work (and $10,000 in materials) but build on it, which means a knowledgeable and experienced engineer willing to cope with the County if it challenges us. Luckily, with vital help we found one. The engineering drawings alone would have cost $4000 but he was compassionate and let me draw myself under his supervision. Two months and $2000 later I had all I needed to submit an application featuring the calculated reinforcements to what I had built so far. These things happen left and right when you "wing it" as I was doing with my highly unconventional, self-invented building techniques, which the engineer had to calculate. You don’t build greenhouses with ½”x10’ EMT (galvanized steel conduit) pipes and stainless steel hose clamps (a steel ribbon + screw type) and other homemade fasteners etc on top of an existing commercial aluminum frame. When one of my good neighbors saw it he had a bewildered look on his face and muttered something about a monkey puzzle

The 55'x55'x22'tall structure has to withstand 170 MPH hurricane wind load... of course I assume that at some point, perhaps 70-100 MPH, the plastic and the shade cloth will rip or detach altogether. I need to be able to take off the coverings before the hurricane or cut it off if there is little time. Not for category 1 or maybe even 2, but for 3 and up for sure. The problem is that the rating=wind speed often change suddenly. For instance, the latest big one in mid-2000's - hurricane Wilma - was coming as category 1 (~75 MPH sustained), so my neighbors left the plastic on their greenhouses. Within 100 miles from us, it gained strength of category 3 (~125 MPH). No time to do anything. Ripped all greenhouses, mangled some.

BTW, the 95% shade cloth, 95'x65', was $1300 and the plastic, same dimensions, from Reef Industries (should serve 5-7 years at least) was $2200. This is much more than peanuts for us.

Anyway, atm I am waiting to hear from the County on the permit – approved or not. If approved, then construction. Then inspection by the County that I did everything as the engineer designed. I’d dearly love to have the cover on before the end of Nov (which I don’t think is happening). It’s a lot of repetitive, hard labor to keep the temporary fish-holding ponds warm enough during colder nights, sometimes weeks.

WOW! That's amazing. One step forward, two steps backwards. I can't wait to see it up and running. Sure you feel the same way! Would love to come see it some day. Do you do private tours! haha

P: WOW! That's amazing.
VJ: Thanks. Your enthusiasm is contagious.

P: One step forward, two steps backwards.
VJ: It's more like zigzagging in the vague direction of the goal, ducking gunfire but stepping on the land mines...

P: I can't wait to see it up and running. Sure you feel the same way!
VJ: Sure I want it but i choose not to think about it. If I allowed myself feeling that way much, I'd be locked up a long time ago I try to practice what I preach and contain myself Besides, men are known not to be directed by their feelings - ratio first, feelings second.

P: Would love to come see it some day.
VJ: Would love you to see it some day too. Don't expect much though, it's a tiny start-up on a measly budget.

P: Do you do private tours! haha
VJ: Let us open first and put the first dollar on the credit side of the balance sheet. All the bells and whisles can be added later Sure we'd do private tours but if we have a customer /a family an hour, all tours will be private But seriously, yes, of course. Why not? Even if you wanna get married under water in our prospective 30,000 gal tank surrounded by monster fish, that could be arranged too. Small business can't be too picky about how to make a buck (safely for the conscience, the customers, and the fish, needless to say).

Well I will be your first customer. Let me know and I will contribute the first dollar to the balance sheet


Penny

Viktor,
I just got all caught up with your project and I see it has it's ups and downs. I'll offer a few tips that I learned the hard way. I've been down a road like this when I finished building my house after 2 builders went bankrupt trying to build it for me. I found the couty to be very helpful and I can tell you most times it's easier to ask first then beg forgiveness.

If you need help with construction for your tank stands let me know I'm free and I could make you strung foundations for those tanks. Just from looking at the pictures I can tell you the stands for the 240's are not going to work. You need a support structure for the rim of the tank and you need more braces to keep the legs from racking. The other thing is you need to weatherproof the wood so it won't absorb moisture or you will have major failures within a couple years.

Feel free to email me any time.

Hey Viktor ,Your luck is turning .You left N.Y. before the big [in their terms ]storm hit you just may beat the local government too .Luck to you .
Mule

I was just checking in to see if there was any other news on your progress. I think about your project all the time. So used to watching tv shows that have instant gratification from foundation to completion in 30 minutes or less