Breeding Ancistrini sp. L082

[jac]

Great pictures

Keeping fingers crossed here

[jerry58]

Hi
Will stick me neck out here sorry but I think to make them viable 2 to 3 days old eggs,shouldn't there be some sign of red veins showing by now from the embryos ,correct me if I am wrong.
Apologies if I am.
I'm not being negative its just an observation and a option.

Jerry
Pics of zeb eggs day one to three they should be the same.

[jerry58]

Hi
Sorry the other shots would not let me download on other day 4 to 5 same eggs and they hatch ok.

Jerry

[Haavard Stoere]

Its only been 46 hours since the eggs were laid. I think the veins will be visible tomorrow if there is life in there.

46 hours old eggs:

[Suckermouth]

That last picture looks like it shows the neural tube/neural crest, but I could just be making stuff up. Anyone else more familiar with developmental biology wanna comment? Because that's a FANTASTIC picture.

Wishing you continued success, sir! Thank you for sharing this with us.

[Haavard Stoere]

Thank you

Could this be veins forming around the yolcsack?

[Farid]

hey havaard


congratulation live from zurich

farid

[jerry58]

Hi Haavard
I have been looking at your eggs for some time now and at the stage they are at(it is hard to explain but here goes)think of the egg as a hard ball on the outside and a very very soft one on the inside now this has a embryo on it so when you look at it the inner soft egg should stay aprox three quarters touching the out side ball and the embryo should take up most of the rest of the area.In your pics looking at them the inner egg is not touching as much as I would expect of a egg that was ok now this means 2 things to me .
1 The egg was not developed fully from the outset.
2. The egg was ok and the embryo died at some stage and we are maybe looking at the egg drying up from the inside so to speak.
When as in the ones I have posted the embryo forms and grows thus consuming the sack inside and taking up the space keeping the inner eggs sack more to the sides and this carries on till they break out of the egg and hatch then obviously use the sack up completely.
This is the only way I can explain it.
The top pick of the last 3 looks a bit behind in maturity than the others weather it died at a different stage not sure.
In the last pic its the crater under the head don't look right to me maybe more drying up inside or deteriorating.

Saying all that as you say wait till tomorrow and longer and see what happens.
Good luck.
Jerry

[Farid]

@havaard,
to me these eggs look fine,
the little worm is the embrio...it might move it's tale in a few days time if everything goes well...
the inner ball ...jolk sack is always a tigny bit smaller than the whole egg...i use this space in bewteen to open eggs if any fry have problems hatching...like pseudohemiodon platicephalus species...tere is always a bit of space between the head and the jolk sack (you'll see later) ;)

as jerry explained...
it might happen thea if the jolk sack is not a huge as it should be... your fry might be a bit smaller than...

farid

[Haavard Stoere]

Thank you Jerry and Farid:)

All 5 embryos have developed a lot during the night. Here are three of them

[Richard B]

From a novice (breeder/biologist) point of view, that last pic looks like a winner in the success category - well done again Haavard

[Haavard Stoere]

Thank you Mats:) I have gone through the 3 stages of grief several times the last couple of days, and now I actually believe I can pull this of at my first attempt. All the issues regarding fry development made me try even harder to see inside the eggs resulting in quite a nice series of pictures. 5 eggs after 3 days is not much, but it should be sufficient.

[MatsP]

I think you meant Richard, but I also believe you are on the right track indeed.

--
Mats

[drpleco]

Very nice work on this, Haarvard! L082 is one of those "holy grail" fish, that's rare, beautiful, and still not successfully spawned in captivity. Congrats!

BTW, with all of your great photography of fish, egg development, and aquarium design, plus the breeding and design skills, it'd be great to see a book written eventually.

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Haavard! That is some amazing images!!! I'm lost for words on the last shot!
I hope to learn more from you're photographing skills! It's definitely catfish art!


Cristoffer

[jerry58]

Hi
I think I have been going through some sort of grief as well with you,but the pics now look a much healthier now veins are showing,well done for sticking in there when things seem to be getting more doubtful .
Just out of interest are these eggs the same eggs as in the pictures before?.
I know from when I look at my eggs the veins showing is a check point to tell me all is well and trying to judge it when you even know the start time and full story is sometimes a bit confusing and just from pictures is also probably is even more so.
Just goes to show what a few more hours development in an egg can change the outcome.
Great stuff!
Best of luck from now on for you and your nearly new arrivals.

Jerry

[Haavard Stoere]

Haavard! That is some amazing images!!! I'm lost for words on the last shot!
I hope to learn more from you're photographing skills! It's definitely catfish art!
Cristoffer

Thank you Cristoffer Using external flash is probably the single most important thing to produce high quality images routinely. I use the cheapest ones called "portaflash". They are usually around 100 euro each. I highly recommend external flash.

Very nice work on this, Haarvard! L082 is one of those "holy grail" fish, that's rare, beautiful, and still not successfully spawned in captivity. Congrats!

My thought as well. It is becoming more and more difficult to be the first when it comes to breeding the really "Hot Looking" plecos. There are plenty of unbred plecos, but they are usually more plain looking.

Just out of interest are these eggs the same eggs as in the pictures before?.

There are five eggs. Three of them are single, and two are joined. The single eggs can be any one of the three. I actually made photographs of all 5 and they are all at the exact same stage of development.

[dconnors]

That is good news to hear! Can't wait to see how they develop! Congrats!

[Haavard Stoere]

Can't wait to see how they develop! Congrats!

Thanks:) I believe Wednesday will be D-day. I have raised the temperature slowly to 29 degrees the last couple of days. It just felt right considering the origin of the fish.

[DJ-don]

those eggs are devoloping nicely!!!
firast the Hemiancitrus now these!!!
i would luv to read an article on all these spawnings!!!
keep us updated

[Cattleya]

Salü
Congrats!

= Good news for the L-wels-days 2011
= Speaker


udo

[Jools]

This is one of those threads that reminds me why I started this site in the first place. We're all up and down with the highs and lows of this drama and supportive of it's every turn. It occurs to me that a lot of first spawns from a group are reported as unsuccessful and I think it's mainly extreme diligence that has saved anything from what was looking like a sad situation.

Well done, and I hope to read much much more.

Jools

[Haavard Stoere]

Thank you all for kind words

I am sad to announce that four of the eggs have hatched prematurely. Their egg-sack are leaking badly, and I am about to destroy them. This problem may support the theory that the eggs were old/bad from the beginning. I have seen this leakage problem in both L200 and L240. When it occurs it is usually around 75% that hatches early starts leaking. Those that hatch later usually makes it.


This is the one I have left. Last hope to succeed in this first try.

[Birger Amundsen]

Sad to hear that Haavard.....

[Haavard Stoere]

Sad to hear that Haavard.....

Its not over yet

Today I have made 2x99% waterchange and added just 2 drops of methylene blue. The egg has picked up some dirt from the punctured eggs, so I will try to clean it with a soft paint brush.

[Haavard Stoere]

Cleaning the eggs with a soft brush didn`t work because the egg bounced around. I carefully rubbed it between three fingers.

[hotchiliz]

The egg has picked up some dirt from the punctured eggs, so I will try to clean it with a soft paint brush.

I carefully rubbed it between three fingers.

Omg...these "techniques" is so unbelievable.
Have you tried using a pipette to "clean" the egg by squirting water at the eggs??
It somehow is quite effective for me and the impact of the water is not as bad as using a soft paint brush.

[Haavard Stoere]

Have you tried using a pipette to "clean" the egg by squirting water at the eggs??
It somehow is quite effective for me and the impact of the water is not as bad as using a soft paint brush.

I also use a pipette, but the residue from the failed eggs was kind of sticky, so I had to rub the egg to get most of it off.

[dconnors]

Simply amazing! I hope that egg hatches for you. I was also wondering if you could post a pic of the tools that you use for handling eggs (brush, pipette, etc.) I have no idea how you are able to do this, you must be a fish wizard!

[MatsP]

When Haavard said in another post "I just do water maintenance", that is obviously only a small part of the true effort that he puts in.

Haavard, sorry to hear that you lost most of the remaining 5 eggs. Good luck with the surviving one, and here's to getting another spawn soon!

--
Mats