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Ok, so let's drop Aquahome, and do pier instead.

• BAS - Arrive 12.30, leave 13.30
• Pier - Arrive 14.00, leave 15.00
• MA Wigan - Arrive 15.15, leave 16.15
• Aqualife - Arrive 16.30, leave 17.30
• Hotel around 17.45.

Timing for the driving is based on Google Maps. If anyone has a better way to estimate driving time, I'm happy to take advice and revision suggestions.

I rearranged the order a bit, which gives us more time in each place too. The total driving time is slightly shorter until the last shop - then we add about 15 minutes driving back to where we were, but I think that's an agreeable solution. Aqualife also closes at 18.00, so we can actually afford to spend another few minutes in one or another place.
Link to google maps

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Mats

Sounds good Mats - well done for sorting the running order -im easily pleased (as long as we don't get a car locked in a car park )

Hopefully everyone will be ok with this but remember not everyone will be happy as "you can't please all of the people all of the time" - C'mon everyone, get onboard

*cigar in mouth, grinning inanely* I love it when a plan comes together.

I'll be there in BAS, Mats I owe you a beer for planning skills.

Jools

Jools wrote:*cigar in mouth, grinning inanely* I love it when a plan comes together.

I'll be there in BAS, Mats I owe you a beer for planning skills.

Jools

Tell my boss that I've got planning skills ;)

[Problem with planning at work is that there are more unknowns than "which of these 4-5 shops can we manage to visit in before 6pm" - and I tend to be optimistic about the amount of work I can get done in a set amount of time].

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Mats

It'll all go to hell in a bucket when we get lost, breakdown or can't tear ourselves away from somewhere. Plans are just that, they're not mandates. If we get half a dozen folks turning up at BAS around 12:30, I'll be impressed.

If you want to go nuts, work out a car share deal... (I AM KIDDING)

Jools

Jools wrote:It'll all go to hell in a bucket when we get lost, breakdown or can't tear ourselves away from somewhere. Plans are just that, they're not mandates. If we get half a dozen folks turning up at BAS around 12:30, I'll be impressed.

If you want to go nuts, work out a car share deal... (I AM KIDDING)

Jools

Half a dozen people will be a good crowd - more will just get messy. And yes, I know about plans with timing and the fact that it can lead to "let's reprioritize" - I have planned motorcycle rides around Wales and Ireland, and on occassion we have arrived MANY hours later than expected, even without getting lost or delayed beyond "this road isn't quite as good as it looks on the map" or "that town is much larger than the map says". I think we should PLAN on sticking to an hour in each shop - then we follow our feelings as to whether it makes sense to visit all shops, or cut it short at some point.

Car share deal - no way, I am not even going there. If someone wants to share car, sort it out betwen yourself. I'm driving to Bolton, and plan on following for the rest of the shop visits (or leading, if I really have to - but I have no idea of where I'm going beyond what map/sat-nav says).

I'm happy to meet with someone who happens to be along the same route [most obvious route from around Guildford, Surrey to Bolton], but I'm not going to even try to optimize the car usage in any way.

Edit: PM me if you feel that you can benefit from "car-sharing" with me.

--
Mats

... that's why I said just kidding.

Jools

I have yet to be let down by my trusty SatNav when finding shops. (hope this isn't tempting fate )

Having chaufferred Mats once (& Chrysichthys) i'd have no hesitation about volunteering to do it again & can say Mats is a great "car buddy" - no back seat driving! & a wealth of knowledge on a massive range of topics, both fishy & non-fish related!

To accommodate for the long distance travelers we have moved the Friday evening dinner back a little, from 7.00 pm for 7.30 pm to 7.00 pm for 8.00 pm. This should give everyone a little more time to get them selves booked in and freshened up.

Ian

Let us just face facts, sour grapes, well Mr I Fuller has done everything he can possibly do to scupper shops that don't sponsor his CSG, or as stated in the other CSG thread anything that don't make money for him.

Question is it his CSG?

I have met the man in question, and a few others who have also, yet only one who has anything positive to say about him.

Am I wrong

Take care

Dave

Mongo wrote:Let us just face facts, sour grapes, well Mr I Fuller has done everything he can possibly do to scupper shops that don't sponsor his CSG, or as stated in the other CSG thread anything that don't make money for him.

Question is it his CSG?

I have met the man in question, and a few others who have also, yet only one who has anything positive to say about him.

Am I wrong

Take care

Dave

Off topic - I don't want any more posts on this bunging up this useful thread, take it to the speak easy if you wish to have a discussion around Ian's running the CSG - I'll happily contribute there - as I'm just about old enough to remember what the Northern Area Catfish Group was like before Ian took over the chair. I don't think I've met you Dave, but I do have positive things to say about Ian. I also have a terrible habit of being even-handed.

Jools

Firstly I would like to apologise to all reading this thread as it has now moved away from its original topic, but I feel I have the right to respond to Mongo's post, to as they say "put the record straight". If anyone would like to have a pop please feel free but do it in a PM, then I will have no need to pull any punches.

Mongo wrote:Let us just face facts, sour grapes, well Mr I Fuller has done everything he can possibly do to scupper shops that don't sponsor his CSG, or as stated in the other CSG thread anything that don't make money for him.

Actually Mongo (Dave ?), I have not as you say done everything to scupper shops that don't sponsor the CSG, or anything that does not make money. I merely asked conventioneers to support our sponsors and at the time of writing two of the shops mentioned (not by me by name) do not currently sponsor the CSG. This may or may not change in the future, I and rightly so, ask members of the group to support those that support us. Make money! I certainly try, the more I can accumulate by sponsor, donation or advertising means the lower I can keep the convention tickets. As an aside we are probably the only society in the UK that has free entries to our Open Show and give out substantial exhibitor pack. Who do you think plans and organises this. Also before anyone thinks or says otherwise, I along with the rest of the committee do pay for our tickets.

Have you ever tried to organise a weekend convention? How much do you think it cost to get speakers in from Thailand the USA and Germany? Where do you think the money comes from? The ticket prices for members is very reasonable and it's the members that the convention is organised for, we could keep it as a closed shop, but wouldn't that get the critics on their pedestals. Non members do pay a little more, but we (The committee, not me) think that it is good value for money, but for you to discover whether it is or not would mean attend the event for your self and not relying on hearsay to base an opinion on.

Mongo wrote:Question is it his CSG?

In a word no, but I am passionate about the group and as Chairman I am the one that is in the driving seat. Now if you, or anyone else for that matter, would like to take over be my guest, it is hard enough coming up with ideas and ways to improve what we do without outsider criticisms and here I would suggest join, if your not already a member and make a difference by getting involved. However that would mean making a commitment and some time involvement.

Mongo wrote:I have met the man in question, and a few others who have also, yet only one who has anything positive to say about him.

Opinions! Everyone is entitled to the, but usually the negative ones are make behind backs and not face to face. I have been in the CSG driving seat for ten years and quite frankly I am getting a little tired, mainly because of the outsider, non involved, negative people who are very quick at mud slinging.

Mongo wrote:Am I wrong

Why ask, make your own mind up.

Ian
Chairman
Catfish Study Group

Mongo wrote:I have met the man in question, and a few others who have also, yet only one who has anything positive to say about him. Am I wrong? Dave

Man, I hate to stick my nose where it doesn't belong (believe that and I have a bridge I'd like to sell you), but I am not going to let you slam a good friend in public. Your incredibly bad manners, alone, deserve a rebuttal, but we'll put that aside for now and just deal with your fallacious comments.

I have been in this hobby for 52 years. I have seen a lot of yokels, come and go - never to be heard from again. No doubt that Mr. Fuller will never win any Mr. Congeniality contest, but the only people you will find that will bad-mouth him are those who resent his knowledge, proficiency and his inability to put up with crap from people who talk a good game, but never have anything positive to contribute to a project, or the public discourse, surrounding one.

When I see him on iChat at 1 AM, his time, when I know he has work the next morning and I ask, "Hey, old man. Why aren't you cranking Z's?" - the answer is always the same. "Working on CSG stuff," with a smile added to signify that he is doing something that he loves doing.

There isn't an organization that would not benefit from one or more persons who share his enthusiasm and dedication to the task at hand. He will always go above-and-beyond the call-of-duty, whenever necessary. What have YOU done, sir, to advance this hobby, in any way, shape or form? Please elucidate. Is that silence, I hear?

Yes, I will gladly and proudly admit that I hold Mr. Fuller in high-esteem and consider him a good and loyal friend that I can always turn to in time of need and know that he will be there for me. Maybe it's because we have both been around the same block, more than a few times that we have such simpatico. Not sure. I dare say there are many others who feel the same way. I am sure of this - he certainly does not need me to fight his battles for him. I am merely reacting to your blatant denigration of a good man, a dedicated fish keeper and a true icon in our hobby, one, I would dare say, that you are not worthy of carting his turkey baster.

I know that there is tension at times, especially among the various "site-owners," but I chalk that up to the passion each of them feel for their projects that they all dedicate an inordinate amount of time, energy and financial resources into, for the benefit of the rest of us lowly fish keepers. There will always be disagreements and no two strong-willed individuals are ever going to totally agree on every point. That's part of what makes the world go 'round. In the end, though, I believe they are all prepared to "lift a pint" and let bygones be bygones because ultimately, they realize it's not about their egos or their stature in the hobby or who has the most/best content or "hits" - it's all about the body of knowledge that they are attempting to amass for our mutual benefit.

All of these people, especially Jools and Ian deserve all the respect and appreciation we can possibly afford them.

For you to slam Ian in public is simply a low-class move, which I personally resent, strongly.

Neither Ian or Jools will be pleased that I have entered the fray, but where I come from we don't sit idly by and allow our friends to be trashed in public.

Get a clue, get some manners and do something positive in your life. When Ian does something to you, personally, then - and only then, should you see fit to open your pie hole to cast aspersions about him.

I will gladly entertain any feeble attempt at a rational retort, via a PM. I only posted this publicly to show you what it feels like to be trashed in public. Of course, Jools, at his discretion may see fit to delete or move this post, entirely. I respect his call on the matter, without question. - Frank

OK, so we've had a question and corresponding reply. If there's nothing more to be said, I'll just leave them here and let's get back to talking about the shops. Meantime Dave, if you've any more comments, start a new topic.

Jools

Sorry for steering a little off course with your thread , In the past we have supported the CSG financially sponsoring as have BAS , In the current climate it is hard to find money to sponsor the event , I have however got one of the speakers to travel to do the talk from Thailand ...He wasnt going to reply to the invitation by Ian Fuller until I said it might be nice for him to talk at this event .So in effect how am I not helping the event ?
Personal comments are being made as some of our customers are offended by the statement made by Mr Fuller telling people not to support our shops .
It is not the call Mr Fuller to tell people what they should do , I have some nice customers that are really angry that he is trying to damage our buisness!
In fact some of them are so sickend by it they are going to not renew the membership to the CSG ,
On a nicer note ,
The trips to India ,Laos and Thailand have been very interesting with some nice new cats
Beautiful glyptothorax ,chaetoglanis,akaysis,to name a few ....
These fish should arrive in the next week / 10 days .
And as we lived in a free country last time I looked see you lot soon

sojapat wrote:The trips to India ,Laos and Thailand have been very interesting with some nice new cats
Beautiful glyptothorax ,chaetoglanis,akaysis,to name a few ....
These fish should arrive in the next week / 10 days .

Sounds good - do you know the Glyptothorax species?

Any info on the Chaetoglanis - i can't find any info on this?

Give me a shout when they're in - i'll be there in a shot

Can I just point out that it was my intention to visit Pier whatever anyone said... I can not drive 300 miles to get that close, and not visit the shop. The fact that you (Neil) have in the past sponsored the show is a good thing, and helping to get speakers is also a very good thing. On the other hand, Ian is in his full right to point out that you are not a sponsor this year [although he should probably have mentioned that you did help with the speaker!] and that there are other shops that ARE sponsors that wasn't on my first draft of the list.

So, I will also visit the two shops that have sponsored the show. I think that is fair.

Finally, I think it would be a shame if anyone didn't renew their CSG membership (or, in my case, don't sign up for one) because of this rather trivial issue. A shop that sponsors some event is of course worth mentioning. But one that for whatever reason can not do so, is just ANOTHER shop, and it has to stand on it's merits as that. In this cae, Pier has a reputation as a good shop.

My main problem is that even with some new tank-space, I'm still fairly short of space for new fishes...

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Mats

Re Fish ,
Chaetoglanis zonatus looks like a bumble bee corydoras x dorad,new in the hobby
Glyptothorax GOLD (Burmese) these are big sized and 80% gold colour .
Glyptothorax Laos Nice high gold undescribed 5"
These are just a few of the things of interest ... Really there are around 70 boxes coming in the next days .
I will put it on here when the fish arrive.
Ps ,Mats I apprecate what you are saying but my livelyhood is not trivial too me and my family ?
If someone attacked your families income would you be pleased by this after helping them ?
See what im saying ?

Chaetoglanis zonatus looks like a bumble bee corydoras x dorad,new in the hobby

New in the hobby and new on the net can't find mention of it anywhere.

Sorry wrongly spelled Caelatoglanis zonatus
I think the first time into Uk but I know some have gone to Germany last week.

Ahhh that is better, got it now...thanks

Now I really wish I would have gone to that convention even just to go see this order among all the other things as well.

Birger

sojapat wrote:Re Fish ,
Chaetoglanis zonatus looks like a bumble bee corydoras x dorad,new in the hobby
Glyptothorax GOLD (Burmese) these are big sized and 80% gold colour .
Glyptothorax Laos Nice high gold undescribed 5"
These are just a few of the things of interest ... Really there are around 70 boxes coming in the next days .
I will put it on here when the fish arrive.
Ps ,Mats I apprecate what you are saying but my livelyhood is not trivial too me and my family ?
If someone attacked your families income would you be pleased by this after helping them ?
See what im saying ?

Cheers for the info - sounds fascinating - can't wait till you tip us off they've arrived

sojapat wrote:Sorry wrongly spelled Caelatoglanis zonatus
I think the first time into Uk but I know some have gone to Germany last week.

Jools

sojapat wrote:Sorry for steering a little off course with your thread , In the past we have supported the CSG financially sponsoring as have BAS , In the current climate it is hard to find money to sponsor the event , I have however got one of the speakers to travel to do the talk from Thailand ...He wasnt going to reply to the invitation by Ian Fuller until I said it might be nice for him to talk at this event .So in effect how am I not helping the event ?

Just to get the facts right on this rather irksome return to the subplot, Pier have support the CSG to exactly what financial total for all the folks reading? If I'm correct its £50 to date? Right or wrong? Just want to be sure so we know what all the fuss is about.

Back in the free world, personally, I'm delighted with your help getting Kamphol over, it's brilliant and I am sure all attendees would fully agree. However, the point was over not supporting the CSG financially as opposed to helping the CSG with the speaker line-up. We should not forget that without Ian Fuller, Kamphol and all the speakers over the years wouldn't have as wide an audience to enthral.

Jools

sojapat wrote:Ps ,Mats I appreciate what you are saying but my livelihood is not trivial too me and my family ?
If someone attacked your families income would you be pleased by this after helping them ?
See what im saying ?

Neil,

Your livelihood is clearly not a trivial issue to you and all our jobs are very important things to all of us. Being in a job where I earn good money but can be sacked any given month I don't hit my numbers, I understand the pressure that requires to be dealt with every week. However, it's not about you, it's not about your family - we were discussing CSG members, and some sort of boycott of the CSG around a £50 sponsorship tiff last time I looked - I think that's trivial and agree with Mats usage of the word.

That "some people" think Ian is trying to damage your business is their issue (in my view borne out of myopic gossip absorption) and frankly they should post a separate topic on it and have the debate here if they've got something to say - but not clog up this topic! As we've discussed recently, I'm a great believer in getting the facts out in front and then having the debate. As to damage to your custom, I am quite sure this bit of nonsense has more people turning up to see what all the fuss is about!

Overall, I think you're laying it on a bit thick. I don't get what you're saying in the text quoted here and I, being as open and even handed as I can be, think most reasonable people are beginning to read a bit of paranoia into these posts.

How about we keep it fishy? I've was rather enjoying reading about the fish coming in.

Jools

sojapat wrote:Glyptothorax Laos Nice high gold undescribed 5"

Kamphol sent me some pics, and I'm sorry to say these are not undescribed, but Glyptothorax horai.

Silurus wrote:

sojapat wrote:Glyptothorax Laos Nice high gold undescribed 5"

Kamphol sent me some pics, and I'm sorry to say these are not undescribed, but Glyptothorax horai.

THANK YOU HH for posting in this topic about fish! I've added a species entry for this species in anticipation.

Cheers,

Jools

I did not cast the first stone !
Nor am I paranoid .. Just Annoyed ..
I have no problem with the CSG or its members .
I do not think that Mr Fuller's (Chairman of CSG)comments were acting in a very proffesional manor considering that we have supported the group .
I promise to keep it fishy next time I visit .. Ta Ta

As someone with no bias (unless anyone thinks otherwise?), i can say i am a CSG member, i appreciate all the work that has gone into organising this event & applaud those involved.

I am also a Pier customer - i know the range & quality of fish they have & will continue to go there - i will go most places for the right fish. I would offer my opinions if anyone asks me - it is then up to the those given the info to 'trust' it or not.

Let's keep it fish-orientated!

Silurus wrote:

sojapat wrote:Glyptothorax Laos Nice high gold undescribed 5"

Kamphol sent me some pics, and I'm sorry to say these are not undescribed, but Glyptothorax horai.

No pics or ID of the other one, at all?

"Glyptothorax GOLD (Burmese) these are big sized and 80% gold colour ."