720 liter Green Phantom species tank

Seedy · Post by **Seedy** » 17 Oct 2007, 22:35

Wow...even with cloudy water one can already tell that is going to be impressive.

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 17 Oct 2007, 22:41

Thank you

I am very happy with the result so far.

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 18 Oct 2007, 14:59

Didn´t manage to sort out the lights today.

Anyway... The water is slightly clearer.

Kostas · Post by **Kostas** » 19 Oct 2007, 08:50

Yeah and the tank looks

Its looking great Haavard

Its wonderfull,i think your best since you have covered the sides too with rocks too...
Is it just the photo or do i see some exposed glass at the middle right of the tank's back?

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 19 Oct 2007, 13:02

Mightily impressive - but to be fair with the infomation provided in the past , we all knew it would be!!!

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 19 Oct 2007, 16:50

Thank you guys

Yes Costas. I haven´t covered the whole background with rocks. I think the areas of open blackness gives more dept.

The water has cleared a lot, and I have introduced the 9 Hemiancistrus subviridis. I know its early, but I have turbo cykled the tank with filter stuff and change 1/3 of the water every second day the following days, and I also test the water frequently. I will buy at least 6 more Hemiancistrus subviridis as I think 15 would be an appropriate group size for this tank.

Any suggestions on tetras for the tank? I would like some kind of large tetra that can cope with the strong currents and a temperature generally ranging from 25-29 degrees. How about Silver Dollars?

As the sun goes down I will take another photograph.

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 19 Oct 2007, 20:59

This evening:

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 19 Oct 2007, 23:10

I would not mind being a Hemiodus gracilis in this tank

Hemiodus is a genus of slim tetras, which can swim very fast indeed (When I bought mine at the LFS, we were standing with 4 people around the tank, in order to catch any jumpers. 4 of the 8 were cought jumping)

Silver dollars would be a pity in this tank: Tha rocks are set to simulate a high current river. Irt would be a pity to spoil this with roumd fishes

Dread · Post by **Dread** » 20 Oct 2007, 06:22

You may want to try Nematobrycon palmeri, aka Emperor Tetra, Rainbow Tetra, and rarely "Royal Black" Tetra. They grow to about 5cm (2 inches), and are able to handle current very well, and they look fantastic, in my opinion.

Mimagoniates microlepis would also work very well. These fish get abit bigger than Nematobrycon palmeri (about 5.2cm, 2.05 inches), and may look even better! From Brazil , Rio da Fazenda, Ubatuba , Sao Paulo, incase that is of importance.

Tetragonopterus argenteus may also be a good idea. Grows to ~11.5cm (~4.53 inches). Not very attractive in my mind, but they grow relativly large for Tetras, I believe. I don't know much about them aside from their natural waters have a pH around 6.8, hardness of about 10gH. I'm unsure where these waters are.

Astyanax bimaculatus Look similiar to Silver Dollars (sort of), and get to be about 15cm (5.91 inches). All I really know about this species is it's distrubution is set as "Peru , Tingo Maria National Park , Huanuco" according to Fishbase.org, and the average pH of their native waters is 7.0, hardness 12gH.

I believe all good choices. However, I am new to the Catfish scene, so I am unfamiliar with the habits (and distrubution) of most Catfish. I'm not sure if you want a geographically accurate tank, so I'm unsure if what I've listed would be appropriate if you are. However, I have to say, I am extremely impressed with your tank! Every tank of yours that I have seen has blown me away. I love it, and have to get you alot of respect for it. I would be honoured and extremely proud to have a tank like that in my house.

Bigpig · Post by **Bigpig** » 20 Oct 2007, 11:18

Wow the tank looks fantastic.
I agree that the dark areas give more depth.
This has been a great thread to follow.
I am about to set up a new tank, not quite on the scale of yours, and you have been very inspiring, and thought provoking.
Thanks for taking the time to share your project.

happy days,
Bigpig

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 20 Oct 2007, 11:50

I really like the Emperor Tetra, and it is supposedly easy to bread. The size of the fish is rather nice to.

I will do some more googling before I decide. Maybee I find a suitable characin from the upper Rio Orinoco area.

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 22 Oct 2007, 23:51

Maybee there are no characins in the rapids H. subviridis inhabits? Perhaps I should leave the tank as a 100% species tank after all?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Oct 2007, 10:11

I'm pretty sure there are some Characin's there - The list is quite long of species from Orinoco, but it doesn't say whether it's upper or lower part of the river.

http://www.fishbase.org/TrophicEco/Fish ... ?e_code=53

--
Mats

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 23 Oct 2007, 11:00

Yeah, there are several species from Orinoco, but I wonder if any of them inhabit the rapids of the upper Orinoco. Maybee they live along slower moving stretches of the shoreline.

This will take some research. Unfortunately it is difficult because most fishbases aren´t that concrete on location. Tetras would maybe make the plecos feel safer in the tank?

I like the X-ray tetra:
http://akvaforum.no/profile.cfm?id=9146

Also the Rummy-nose tetra from Orinoco Basin. Unsure if it can handle the currents:
http://akvaforum.no/profile.cfm?id=8752

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Oct 2007, 13:08

Rummy noses are pretty good in current, as far as I understand.

As long as you have some quieter areas.

You can use "occurrances" in Fishbase to see where the fish has been captured - but of curse, the fishermen/collectors may not go searching for fish in the most turbulent areas of the rivers.... E.g
http://www.fishbase.org/museum/Occurren ... hodostomus

--
Mats

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 23 Oct 2007, 19:30

I didn´t know this function existed in the base. Thank you Mats:)

The Rummy-nose lives in Rio Casiquiare basin. Rio Casiquiare is a side river in the upper Orinoco where the Hemiancistrus subvividis lives.

Perfect

I am unsure whether the fish can thrive in my tank, but I will give it a try.

This is also a very nice fish from Rio Casiquiare:
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Species ... p?id=46280

Kostas · Post by **Kostas** » 24 Oct 2007, 08:16

The tanks looks wonderfull now that has cleared

How much current do you have in the tank?
Other characin species you could put are Copella vittata and Copella compta...In my rivertank i will be putting a large group of the Copella compta when i manage to find them...

Copella vittata are much easier to find however and from what apistomaster says,Copellas do well with the current...
Rio Casiquiare is a side river that joins the Upper Orinoco with the Upper Negro...I would consider these fishes as inhabiting both upper Orinoco and upper Negro...

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 24 Oct 2007, 10:58

Leaving the black areas to give depth is an awesome idea, especially combined with spot lighting which would also give a cool ripple effect on the rocks.
See this video.
Click here to watch Xingu-tank
It's not a very good picture as it is a bit dark, but believe me its fab in real life.
Matt

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 24 Oct 2007, 20:38

Thank you for all the tips on tetras. I will consider the options carefully.

Thought I should explain some more about the technical stuff surrounding the tank and how it works.

The tank sits in the bottom of an industrial sized rack, that will hold another tank of the same dimension on the "topfloor". My friend Andreas who is a welder made it for me in 80x80x8mm steel. The canister filter on the left side is an Eheim 2280. I have two of them. One for each 720 liter.

Lighting is 12x18 watts T8 daylight.

Left side has the input and output from the canister filter and an Eheim Compact 3000.

Right side has an Eheim Compact 3000. All the pumps sirculate the water in an anti clockwise direction.

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 24 Oct 2007, 22:35

Kostas wrote:The tanks looks wonderfull now that has cleared
How much current do you have in the tank?
Other characin species you could put are Copella vittata and Copella compta...In my rivertank i will be putting a large group of the Copella compta when i manage to find them... Copella vittata are much easier to find however and from what apistomaster says,Copellas do well with the current...
Rio Casiquiare is a side river that joins the Upper Orinoco with the Upper Negro...I would consider these fishes as inhabiting both upper Orinoco and upper Negro...

Copella vittata? I could not find it in fishbase. Copella nattereri have the exact same location as the Green Phantoms:
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/species ... =nattereri

Seedy · Post by **Seedy** » 24 Oct 2007, 23:43

So nice to look at!

A couple of questions:

Are you concerned about splash/humidity issues with those lighting fixtures being open and the tank without a top? I would be afraid they might start to corrode.

Also, how will you be replacing water in the tank when doing water changes and top-offs? I assume you must have something similar to a "Python" for removing water since this is a lower tank.

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 25 Oct 2007, 01:32

Seedy wrote: Are you concerned about splash/humidity issues with those lighting fixtures being open and the tank without a top? I would be afraid they might start to corrode.

The tank is completely covered with glass. I just took it off to show you the currents and the pumps.

Seedy wrote:Also, how will you be replacing water in the tank when doing water changes and top-offs? I assume you must have something similar to a "Python" for removing water since this is a lower tank.

I connect a 20mm hose to the left powerhead to change water. I use the same hose to fill it up.

Seedy · Post by **Seedy** » 25 Oct 2007, 02:02

Do you match the water chemistry/temperature and treat with any water conditions in some kind of holding tank before adding or is it "out of the tap"?

Perhaps you are on well water or they treat the tap water differently where you are?

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 25 Oct 2007, 14:33

I like the way the current from the canister filter is running over the rocks and the fact that they are coming out of the water, very real.
Matt

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 25 Oct 2007, 21:40

Seedy wrote:Do you match the water chemistry/temperature and treat with any water conditions in some kind of holding tank before adding or is it "out of the tap"?

Perhaps you are on well water or they treat the tap water differently where you are?

My tapwater is very clean. Ph is about 7-7.5 and gh is about 3. I use seasoned water from other tank when setting up new ones. When doing partial water changes I always use unseasoned tapwater. My tapwater is so clean that I have no reservations changing as much as 50% in one go.

grokefish wrote:I like the way the current from the canister filter is running over the rocks and the fact that they are coming out of the water, very real.
Matt

The pictures were taken during a water change. The outlets are normally submerged to reduce noise.

Seedy · Post by **Seedy** » 25 Oct 2007, 22:29

I take it that they don't use chloramine in Norway?

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 26 Oct 2007, 00:23

Seedy wrote:I take it that they don't use chloramine in Norway?

We use some clorine, but very little in my area. I actually use my sence of smell to determine the amount of clorine in the water. When I smell clorine I change less water. This is very seldom though.

jopbgon · Post by **jopbgon** » 26 Oct 2007, 03:01

Wow bro you're my hero!!!

how about some more pics of the tank and fishes

,congrats the best tank I have ever see!!!!!

Kostas · Post by **Kostas** » 26 Oct 2007, 10:11

Ooops

Sorry,i wanted to write Copella nattereri,the one you found

I like the tank and its stand very much,quite compact

The lighting idea is very good too...
It looks great with all this current on the surface and as grokefish said,the water going over the rock adds to its beauty...Its funny how tanks sometimes look better when you lower their water during a water change,my tank too with my L190 also looks much better when i lower the water as one of the spraybars gets way out of the water and the water entering the tank from the water surface along with a lot of bubbles,as well as the increse of the current(as the pumps/filters still work and the water to circulate decreases)make it look much more river like

Again,congratulations for making such a beautyfull tank

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 26 Oct 2007, 10:25

Thank you

I will make some more photogaphs as the work progresses. I need to collect some more rocks for a couple of cave structures for the foreground. Looking forward to see some algae growth on the rocks. They look a bit sterile in the newly setup tank. The sand I use is from a local beach. It matches the rocks very nicely.