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panaque wrote:Just thought I'd post some pics of my C. perugiaes here. They seem different from the one in Martin S's avatar. Many more, smaller spots and no markins in the caudal.
First a rather gravid female. This was taken a few days ago and today she is sitting on a nice clutch of eggs.

C.perugiae female.jpg

And here is the father (that's his reflection on the right, not another fish...).

C. perugiae male reflection.jpg

Hope you like
Cheers
Frank

Nice fish! Yes, they do look different from mine.
Here's a recent pic (taken from another thread):

I seem to remember something about the spot size being a possible identifier to the fish being , but Marc is better placed to give more details on this subject - I'm still learning!
Here are some with a very nice yellow colouring (probably what wild fish look like) from an earlier post by Yann:

Yann wrote:

Martin

Martin S wrote: I seem to remember something about the spot size being a possible identifier to the fish being

Centromochlus altae

, but Marc is better placed to give more details on this subject - I'm still learning!

.
I really like the markings on your fish and certainly looks an option.

Martin S wrote: Here are some with a very nice yellow colouring (probably what wild fish look like) from an earlier post by Yann:

.
The markings on Yann's fish are more similar to mine but also different in that the spots are a bit larger and wider spaced. There's bound to be some intraspecific variation though and age might have something to do with it as well. I suppose I should make an effort to raise some of the current clutch and take pics at regular intervals.
They are great little fish. Mine take all sorts of frozen food but only if it is at the surface so anything that doesn't float I feed by hand. As long as it is dark they are not at all shy and happily take the food from my fingers.
Cheers
Frank

panaque wrote:

Martin S wrote: I seem to remember something about the spot size being a possible identifier to the fish being

Centromochlus altae

, but Marc is better placed to give more details on this subject - I'm still learning!

.
I really like the markings on your fish and

Centromochlus altae

certainly looks an option.

That's one of the two males I have. I should try and get pics of all four. I'll wait for Marc on that - i'm not sure if it has ever been confirmed, but it was recently split out from C.perugiae in the Catelog.
See this thread for more discussions.

panaque wrote:

Martin S wrote: Here are some with a very nice yellow colouring (probably what wild fish look like) from an earlier post by Yann:

.
The markings on Yann's fish are more similar to mine but also different in that the spots are a bit larger and wider spaced. There's bound to be some intraspecific variation though and age might have something to do with it as well. I suppose I should make an effort to raise some of the current clutch and take pics at regular intervals.

Yes, that would be a useful reference. My LFS has a batch of juveniles at the moment, which came in at about 5-6mm and are now just less than 10mm - they look almost identical to my adults with regards markings and colouring.

panaque wrote: They are great little fish. Mine take all sorts of frozen food but only if it is at the surface so anything that doesn't float I feed by hand. As long as it is dark they are not at all shy and happily take the food from my fingers.
Cheers
Frank

Mine really prefer bloodworm to anything else (which seems to apply even more so to the smaller Tatia sp2 as well). The sp2 are less bothered by the light - like yours my C.perugiae will not come out until tank lights are off, whereas the sp2, if bloodworm is added, they will feed in the middle of the day as soon as they 'smell' their dinner.
Martin

The more I'm diving into this issue, the more confusing it gets. I now even believe that there are two species sitting under C. perugiae in the Clog.
The one with the tiny spots - which seem to form rows towards the belly - which is supposed to be the true perugiae and the one with the more reticulated pattern, which might well be C. altae.
But then there seems to be a third species, namely the "big spot" which can be found in the link provided in the above posting.
Perugiae is from Equador (mind you, the name has nothing to do with Peru, but with the Italian scientist Perugia); altae is from Colombia.
The origin of the big spot is unknown to me.

Thing is that I have the first two species combined and what strikes me most is that they ignore each other completely. My intention was to get some females for my 5 perugiae males, but I got the "altae" instead. These females are left alone by the perugiae - not by their own males - while the perugiae males still quarrel amongst themselves from time to time. That seems an indication for two separate species imo.
I'll keep a close watch and will let you know how things get on. That still doesn't give us a correct name, I know......

Any observations or additions welcome.

While looking at my tanks tonight through a magnifying glass (see below), I found out that you can tell the sexes from Entomocorus apart even if they are small. Mine are all a little over 3 cms, yet 2 specimens already have longer ventrals than the others. It's difficult to see as these fish are constantly moving around, but I needed more visible specimens for comparison - which is a no go during day time.

I needed that glass because I had some trouble in tank 1 and for a few days I was afraid I could join the "disaster to report" topic. It was Ich; a nasty one for several auchenipterids looked as if they had been dragged through flour. Luckily I got away with it without any victims and the tank seems stable atm. Raising the temprature, some salt, an oldfashioned yet good medicin and some phone calls with Alex took care of this happy ending.
And of course several times per day a very close watch. Hence the magnifying glass

Whew! Glad there were no casualties

definitely

once all the spots are gone, dose for 1 or 2 days then start lowering the temperature -gently!- and after that a waterchange is in order.

but you MUST dose those 1-2 days after the visible signs are gone, because the freeswimming stadia must be mopped up.

At the weekend, whilst working at my LFS, I spotted three Columbian tetras (Hyphessobrycon colombianus) - all relatively large, but all big enough, or so ! thought, to not end up as dinner for . I'd guess the largest one is 2.5", and very chunky, the second one, slightly smaller at about 2". The third one was (and I say 'was' in past tense) the smallest at about 1.5". I wanted some mid-water movement as most of the time, it looks like an empty tank, and as my LFS had sold out of Congo Salmon (Phenacogrammas interruptus), I decided the Columbians should be big enough and fast enough to stay out of harm's way...added fish Sunday evening, along with some live shrimp - Monday morning, only two left A real shame as they are very active and not skittish at all. I have a lone rummy-nose in there that I have been unable to catch and that has avoided being dinner - if i could catch it without dismantling the tank I would have done!
I would like some more large tetras, but they are gong to have to be at least 2" (and very chunky)!
Martin

Martin S wrote: Monday morning, only two left

I would like some more large tetras, but they are gong to have to be at least 2" (and very chunky)!
Martin

Whoops Perhaps even a bit bigger than 2" i'd say

have you thought about some of the less herbivorous distichodus or citharinus or maybe barillius species?

Richard B wrote: Whoops Perhaps even a bit bigger than 2" i'd say

Yes, although the T.wallacei is, according to Marc not a fish that will take chunks, so it needs to be small enough to fit in one go, otherwise it should be left alone.

Richard B wrote: have you thought about some of the less herbivorous distichodus or citharinus or maybe barillius species?

I'm sure I'll be OK with the columbians, and fully grown Congos, but will look at your suggestions - thanks
Martin

Richard B wrote:have you thought about some of the less herbivorous distichodus or citharinus or maybe barillius species?

Having checked these out, they are all african or indian in origin - I am trying to keep my stock to only south american. I know it's not a true biotype, but I like it that way!
I also realised that the Congos are from Australia, so they are out of the window too now!
Thanks anyway
Martin

I thought congos were African???

Richard B wrote:I thought congos were African???

So did I. And so does fishbase:
Africa: Congo Democratic Republic.

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Species ... p?id=10660

--
Mats

MatsP wrote:

Richard B wrote:I thought congos were African???

So did I. And so does fishbase:
Africa: Congo Democratic Republic.

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Species ... p?id=10660

--
Mats

Sorry
I did a search for 'Congo Tetra' and it came back with three hits - I took one of the countries from there in error without looking at the actual fish record. Doh!

Try larger rounded species, like Poptella (still valid??), Gymnocorybus bondi, Tetragonopterus. Not as huge as Metynnis, leaving the plants in peace and peaceful. Richard suggested Distichodus; pls don't. These are terrible fin nippers, which will obviously cause disaster amongst auchenipterids. For the same reason, don't choose any (South-American) Anostomus or Leporinus species.
If you don't mind keep me posted on any Characin you'd like to keep and I'll help you out with advice.

Marc van Arc wrote:Try larger rounded species, like Poptella (still valid??), Gymnocorybus bondi, Tetragonopterus. Not as huge as Metynnis, leaving the plants in peace and peaceful. Richard suggested Distichodus; pls don't. These are terrible fin nippers, which will obviously cause disaster amongst auchenipterids. For the same reason, don't choose any (South-American) Anostomus or Leporinus species.
If you don't mind keep me posted on any Characin you'd like to keep and I'll help you out with advice.

As always - thanks Marc.
I'll take a look, but am in no hurry at the moment to add anythign else.
Thanks again
Martin

Marc - i agree that lussoso & sexfasciatus are nippers but i haven't had that problem with noboli or affinis - have you similar or opposite experience with these or other distichodus?

Got an unusal photo of my t.wallacei last night which I though I would share - very unusual place to find it resting! During the day it is normally head down in amonst the vallis or amazon swords, so not sure how it ended up here, but later on it had moved and was back to one of it's usual resting spots.

Martin

Ha, great picture. Looking at the thickness of the barbels, you might have a male (not 100% certain yet; how long is it atm?).

Talking of which, below is a picture of the Entomocorus male I mentioned last week (picture see December 24th). You can almost see the ventrals grow.
Also there's already a hint of the genital papilla.

At last they did it when I had a camera within reach.....
The tank however was pitch black so I (and the camera) had to "guess" where they were, which made the pictures a bit blurred. Sorry for that; I'll try to improve on that.

Mating of
The male clasps the female using his barbels, dorsal spine and wraps his body around her. The grunting sounds he (they??) makes alert me that something is going on. It looks like this: This one was shot somewhat later: In this picture they have completely turned around. You can clearly see that the male has wrapped himself around the female: This last picture was shot shortly before they both swam off, still attached to each other. The female then literally shook off the male.
This mating took about 2 minutes, which is exceptionally long ime.

Marc - if it is of interest, or you may already be aware...the name Tatia sp pijuayo or novia sp pijuayo is actually

.the name Tatia sp pijuayo or novia sp pijuayo is actually Liosomadoras morrowi

Richard, is this on present shipping lists or old names ?

Birger

This was seen on a tank label at a lfs today. "L.Morrowi (novia sp pijuayo)" £25 - they were definately morrowi.

Richard B wrote:Marc - if it is of interest, or you may already be aware...the name Tatia sp pijuayo or novia sp pijuayo is actually

Liosomadoras morrowi

Although the name pijuayo was already in the "list" as L. oncinus (see page 12 of this thread), the addition sp makes sense wrt L. morrowi. Probably the exporter is able to identify it as a jaguar cat, but knows it's not the jaguar cat.
So this is of interest, thanks.

Marc van Arc wrote:Talking of which, below is a picture of the Entomocorus male I mentioned last week (picture see December 24th). You can almost see the ventrals grow.

The ventral spines have reached the anal fin by now.

Marc van Arc wrote:Ha, great picture. Looking at the thickness of the barbels, you might have a male (not 100% certain yet; how long is it atm?).

I'd say about 6"TL. I managed to catch him(?) out in the open last night - if the fish is out cruising and the room lights go on, it just drops to the tank floor and does not move - this usually happens at the rear of the tank and it's not possible to see the fish clearly, but last night it managed to land in a clear space at the front and I snapped a couple of shots off which I'll add later tonight - see below.
Martin
[EDIT]


[/EDIT]

Yes, that's a male alright: enlarged dorsal, thickened barbels and a genital papilla. Nice pic btw, for it shows something I never see: Tetranematichthys feeding from the bottom.

Marc van Arc wrote:Yes, that's a male alright: enlarged dorsal, thickened barbels and a genital papilla. Nice pic btw, for it shows something I never see: Tetranematichthys feeding from the bottom.

I had assumed the sex was male after spotting the genital papilla in the shots above, but thanks for confirming. Actually, this is a 'you've caught me out! let's just drop to the floor and hope no-one notices' shot
The tank is in my bedroom which at night is extremely dark. When I come up to bed, and turn the tank lights on he is usualy cruising the tank - as soon as the room lights go on, he just drops like a stone to the floor, and plays dead. That's also why the colouring is so pale - it's more of a fright colour than his usual darker brown.
It's just nice to be able to provide whole body shots of him.
Martin

Martin S wrote: That's also why the colouring is so pale - it's more of a fright colour than his usual darker brown.

The term "fright colour" is a bit misleading in this respect. The night colouring of many fishes is paler than their colouration during the day.
Now imagine: it's a nocturnal species on the move in search for food/prey. Then something strange happens; while doing his nightly thing, suddenly it's day again and he has to do his "play dead trick". So wrt behaviour you could call the (typical) reaction "fright" ; not wrt colouration.
Sorry to come back to this so long after your post; I missed it somehow.

Btw: a very nice example of the difference between day & night colouration can be found in Neons and Cardinal Tetras: brilliant during the day and almost white during the night. Ever seen a Neon in the morning just after lights on?

Marc van Arc wrote:Talking of which, below is a picture of the Entomocorus male I mentioned last week (picture see December 24th). You can almost see the ventrals grow. Also there's already a hint of the genital papilla (see Jan 23rd; attachment no longer available?)

About four weeks later, it looks like this: