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Martin S wrote: Think it will have to go back tomorrow

That is too bad! Is there no-one from PC near you that would like such an asset?

Hi!

Thanks Marc!!
I know why I didn't thought it could be E. melaphareus.
On the pic of the preserved specimen, found the dorsal to be quite high compare of this boilvian species
The black marking on the tail is much extended on the bolivian species
The barbels are also less developped on the species
adipose is not so developped
Black marking on caudal pedoncule is also slightly different...
There is also that longitudinal thin black line
The fish I have in picture is either a female or an untransformed male...but still find those differences compare to E. melaphareus, what do you think..
Cheers
Yann

Marc van Arc wrote:

Martin S wrote: Think it will have to go back tomorrow

That is too bad! Is there no-one from PC near you that would like such an asset?

Tell me about it
I wish that were the case - if there is anyone who would be able to help, please get in touch.
Thanks again
Martin

@ Yann:
If you don't mind I'll come back to that tomorrow.
Je suis fatigué, je vais dormir. À demain.

Yann wrote: I know why I didn't thought it could be E. melaphareus.
On the pic of the preserved specimen, found the dorsal to be quite high compare of this boilvian species
The black marking on the tail is much extended on the bolivian species
The barbels are also less developped on the species
adipose is not so developped
Black marking on caudal pedoncule is also slightly different...
There is also that longitudinal thin black line
The fish I have in picture is either a female or an untransformed male...but still find those differences compare to E. melaphareus, what do you think..

Hi Yann,

I don't do ID's using preserved specimens. I prefer live ones. The main feature of your fish (could you add a picture of it so other people may see it as well?) is the black spot in the upper caudal lobe. From there I try to match it with a known description. Not very scientifical, right? That's why I'm no good at Loricariids and Corys. Too many species, too many look-a-likes .
I don't know if it's correct to compare a transformed (adult) male to an adolescent female/male.

However, there are two important things that would vote for a "new" species:
- E. melaphareus is only known from 2 specimens
- the distribution area is way off from the area your specimen originates from.

I've just found a group of around 10 for sale, there appear to be differences among them. I will set-up a tank for them and report back!

Jools

Jools wrote:I've just found a group of around 10

Entomocorus

for sale, there appear to be differences among them. I will set-up a tank for them and report back!

Well done Jools. That'll make 3 auchenipterid species on your list. More, more!
Very nice reticulatus btw. Are the Entomocorus from Hugh as well?

Marc van Arc wrote:Very nice reticulatus btw. Are the Entomocorus from Hugh as well?

Thanks, and yes, all from Hugh.

As I was photographing them, one of the five jumped out into my 48x30x18 heavily planted disucs tank! I will leave him there for a while as it will take ages to find him and get him out with the four others. I have some C. perugiae from Rupert too, so I am now up to 4 species!

Jools

Nice one Jools!
I'm keen to see how the Entomocorus get on - am still tempted by them, but until i have decided what to do with the T wallacei, I'll need to hold fire. I've kept him/her for the moment (can these be sexed easily?), and after winning a small tank and stand in a raffle, may just move the smaller auchenipterids into that and keep the larger tank for the T. wallacei, and will also mean I can get the L. oncinus I really want to go in the same tank without worrying about them feeding on the smaller auchenipterids!
I can feel a plan coming together!
Regarduing the wallacei - any tips on feeding? Marc - what/how do you feed yours? I tried an earthworm last night (was laying on it's side looking dead as they have a habit of doing) and it totally ignored it. I feed the smaller tatias frozen bloodworm, krill and sinking bloodworm pellets, but need to make sure I get the right food the the larger T. wallacei.
Thanks
Martin

Martin S wrote:Regarduing the wallacei - any tips on feeding? Marc - what/how do you feed yours? I tried an earthworm last night (was laying on it's side looking dead as they have a habit of doing) and it totally ignored it. I feed the smaller tatias frozen bloodworm, krill and sinking bloodworm pellets, but need to make sure I get the right food the the larger T. wallacei.

Hi Martin,
Sexual differences as in most Auchenipteridae (clearly visible genital papilla and enlarged dorsal spine in males), but I think your specimen is still to small to find out. Good thing that you're able to house it yourself!!
Wrt food: that's the tricky part. During the day everything is ignored. You could put a pile of bloodworms on its nose, yet it won't budge. It will also not eat from the bottom. Thus the food has to float - or swim. I've rarely seen them eat some (large)flakes and I don't feed floating sticks (which might be an option while thinking of it right now). You could also try frozen fish (stint?), but make sure you keep an eye out in order to prevent water pollution when these are not eaten.
I mostly feed mine - some people may not like this - live and healthy fishes. These may be inbred, finless, curled up, whatever as long as they are healthy. Don't feed goldfish or ill specimens. Sooner or later they will infect your fish with unwanted results, ranging from loads of medicins to death.
At school I have a tank with guppies and such set up for this purpose. Hope this is of any help.

Hi Marc and others!!

Here is the Entomocorus species I am talking about!!

Picture credit Jp Sanchez
Cheers
Yann

Marc van Arc wrote: Hi Martin,
Sexual differences as in most Auchenipteridae (clearly visible genital papilla and enlarged dorsal spine in males), but I think your specimen is still to small to find out. Good thing that you're able to house it yourself!!
Wrt food: that's the tricky part. During the day everything is ignored. You could put a pile of bloodworms on its nose, yet it won't budge. It will also not eat from the bottom. Thus the food has to float - or swim. I've rarely seen them eat some (large)flakes and I don't feed floating sticks (which might be an option while thinking of it right now). You could also try frozen fish (stint?), but make sure you keep an eye out in order to prevent water pollution when these are not eaten.
I mostly feed mine - some people may not like this - live and healthy fishes. These may be inbred, finless, curled up, whatever as long as they are healthy. Don't feed goldfish or ill specimens. Sooner or later they will infect your fish with unwanted results, ranging from loads of medicins to death.
At school I have a tank with guppies and such set up for this purpose. Hope this is of any help.

Thanks Marc - as always very useful and informative.
Will have a think and try to quickly come up with a solution as do not want him/her to starve!
I did a search and found the info on the differences between T. wallacei and the T. quadrifillis HERE - I now see what you meant!
Thanks again
Martin

Martin S wrote:I am now the proud owner of three

Tatia sp(2)

I picked out a male and two females, and my LFS has at least another 5, which I intend to purchase over the next few months. I picked the female I had already photographed, one other of a similar size and the male, although slightly slimmer, was the only definite one there. Of the remaining fish, there seem to be more females than males, and most of these are much smaller.
With the move from my Juwel tank to my new 30x18x18 happening this weekend, I will try and get some better photos of the females and some new ones of the male.
Martin

FYI, and observation on feeding habits of the sp2.
I have been watching these over the past few weeks, and they are quite different to the C. perugiae in that they appear to be happy to feed from the ground, i.e do not head straight for the surface when food is given after lights out, and also swim round at an intense speed with the primary barbels, which are quite long in relation to the size of the fish, pointing forward. The perugiae are not quite as manic, and I have not seen them extend their barbels in the same way.
I have reserved the rest of the sp2 in my LFS, so will hopefully have a group of at least 10 in the next few months.
Martin

Martin S wrote:I did a search and found the info on the differences between T. wallacei and the T. quadrifillis HERE

Thanks for the link Martin!
I've taken the liberty of copying a part from the article:

Fishing lure
The mandibular barbels of Tetranematichthys are unusual in that the ends have "a fleshy digitiform process" like a tassel on the tips. Vari and Ferraris believe that the specialised musculature of the barbels in these fish might indicate that Tetranematichthys uses these as a fishing lure to attract prey by wiggling the fleshy tip around to make attract smaller fish.
"Motions of the elaborate distal portions of the mandibular barbel in the region anterior to the mouth in the species of Tetranematichthys may function as a fishing lure in a manner comparable to the escae that are present in various ceratioids.
"Confirmation of this hypothesis in the case of Tetranematichthys would require the observations of live specimens of the genus in nature."

I truly wonder how they came to this hypothesis/conclusion. There are several reason I'd like to mention:

- when looking at Ageneiosidae and Trachelyopterus fisheri the same thickened barbels are found and it is known that they are used for clasping the female during the mating. The difference is that in Ageneiosidae the barbels (and dorsal spine) grow back to normal proportions after the mating season, whereas they remain enlarged (dorsal spines as well) in Tetranematichtys and T. fisheri.
- as far as I have witnessed both wallacei and fisheri are unable to stretch their barbels beyond their mouth, which would make the lure quite inadequate for they would have to move sideways to get their prey.
- (both) being strictly nocturnal species there's no reason (imho) for a lure function, for no prey is able to see it in the dark. And don't even think that these species will eat during day time.
- it's not in nature of course, but in my tank they hunt like ageneiosids: skimming the surface (although apparently more thoughtful) and/or reacting on any movement of a possible prey in their surroundings.

These observations are based on numerous hours in front of my tank.

Martin S wrote:FYI, and observation on feeding habits of the sp2.
I have been watching these over the past few weeks, and they are quite different to the C. perugiae in that they appear to be happy to feed from the ground, i.e do not head straight for the surface when food is given after lights out, and also swim round at an intense speed with the primary barbels, which are quite long in relation to the size of the fish, pointing forward. The perugiae are not quite as manic, and I have not seen them extend their barbels in the same way.

Thanks for sharing this information. Your sp2 then behaves like my A. sp guyana as well as several Trachelyopterus spp. Your observation of the barbels is very good. Imo just a limited number of auchenipterids is able to point their maxillary barbels forward. And Tatias for instance, as you noticed, don't belong to that group. The fact that they are even more manic than perugiae says something. Not suitable for people with a nervous breakdown, to say the least

Really nailed a picture of the new fish tonight. It's the same species as in Yann's post. Interestingly, they can really change colour from almost silver to dark grey. I will get a picture of them doing this. The picture below is mid way.

Jools

Jools wrote: It's the same species as in Yann's post.

If you're referring to Yann's post on this page I have to contradict you I'm afraid. The tail patterns are very different and that's the key to ID-ing Entomocorus spp. afaik.

Marc van Arc wrote:

Jools wrote: It's the same species as in Yann's post.

If you're referring to Yann's post on this page I have to contradict you I'm afraid. The tail patterns are very different and that's the key to ID-ing Entomocorus spp. afaik.

Hmmm, then I have two species then. The barbles on my species are also really long, at least 33% of SL, if not more. So, what is it then?

Jools

Your picture shows an

Seems these gameroi have hit the market lately...
Good things...too bad they haven't found their way up to Switzerland!!
;)

I agree with Marc, your fish look like Entomocorus gameroi...still nice find!!!
Cheers
Yann

So today I would receive a notification whether or not the Yellow Portholes (Callichthys callichthys) from Peru had arrived. Wrong forum, wrong topic, I see you think. Hang on.
Not having much patience (or being too curious), I phoned the LFS myself. No Portholes. Okay. Anything else maybe?
Yes. A small catfish with black markings and a green-yellowish glow. Now that's interesting. A name, perhaps? Yes, Tayta reticulata. Right, I'll be there within 1.5 hours. My pupils found a very energetic and eager to leave person after their break. What happened? Fishes, boys & girls
Anyway, I've enlarged my group of big spot perugiaes with 6 handpicked females. And, as a huge bonus, among 40 specimens I found 1 genuine Centromochlus reticulatus! On the pictures below you can still see a hint of the green-yellowish glow, which - according to the LFS owner - was much more visible when they arrived, but seems to wear off pretty quickly.

Congratulations, Marc with your new Tatia.
Just being curious too: Where did you purchase them??

Arjan

Hi Marc!!

great find!!! don't you think these are actually a undescribed species rather than just a big spot variation of Centromochlus perugiae??
I am really envious...so many cool Auchenipteridae in Netherlands...;)
Cheers
Yann

kruseman wrote:Congratulations, Marc with your new Tatia.
Just being curious too: Where did you purchase them??

Hi Arjan,
Your shop as well: Aquarium Centrum Helmond. They should have 33 left atm

Btw: Fisch Profi doesn't react to emails, but I'll go anyway during the Christmas holidays. Probably makes the surprise even bigger

Yann wrote:don't you think these are actually a undescribed species rather than just a big spot variation of Centromochlus perugiae??

That's a difficult one Yann. My best bet is that - if no perugiae variety - it may be C. altae based on pattern. This has been discussed before, but there was no consensus on this issue.

Hi Marc!!

Yes this one is also a possibility...would be nice...
They came from Peru then?? Any idea where??
Cheers
Yann

Yann wrote:They came from Peru then?? Any idea where??

No specific areas are given, alas.....

Here a picture of my new C. perugiae!
After reading Marcs post I hurried to the same LFS and purchased 4.
It is hard to take pictures though...They are fast.

And an other one.

Nice fish - very different markings from my C. perugiae!
The T. wallecai has settled in well, although the rummynose and green fire tetras numbers are dwindling! Not ideal, but I'd rather lose a few tetra than my smaller auchenipterids. Will be picking up the second tank this weekend, so hope to be able to transfer all the C. perugiae and Tatia sp(2) out into that as soon as it's cycled. Not sure what else to move from the main tank, but the auchenipterids are my priority.
As mentioned, the is a real surface feeder - the tank is situated in my bedroom, and within five mintes of room lights out, there are often several splashes from obvious lunges by the wallacei on it's 'prey'. It would be an interesting thing to watch but I have never seen the wallecai move during lights on or even with the just the room lights on. Marc - do you find the blue light useful in viewing yours?
Martin