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Posted: **14 Oct 2008, 02:25**

Hi Marc....

I would abond in Sid sense... possibly territorial...

hey maybe I could help you with the perugiae...currently have 100 fry of these at different juvenils phases... and sadly what I thought to be a pair of Tatia intermedia finally ended up being 2 males... so I am in search of females...

Cheers
Yann

Posted: **14 Oct 2008, 09:28**

I think it is for a different reason. As they are constantly trying to mate in a rather aggressive way, there's a lot of "damage". I've seen torn out eyes, completely ripped of pectoral spines and some serious (lethal) flesh wounds. As they are the largest Auchenipteridae in the tank they can only cause that to themselves. There are plenty of hiding spaces, so I don't think that's the problem.

Yann, if you are ever near Eindhoven feel free to pick up a female intermedia.

Wrt perugiae: I'll know more after next Thursday. I won't say anymore, because I've found out that announcements of fish to come bring bad luck, causing the arrival of no fish at all. Thanks for your offer anyway!

Yann wrote:And I am 6 days away from receiving the "surprise"!!!

Did the above work out or did I just miss it?

Posted: **14 Oct 2008, 21:33**

Hi Marc!!

Thanks a lot...would sure love to come there...we ll see how I can arrange something...
Well if you want some juvies perugiae... ;) I ll bring some along...

Regarding the surprise...well it is just as you said in your last message...it brings sort of bad luck...they will come someday...once the swiss veterinarian will stop annoying the shop owners with the news laws regarding the selling and keeping of pets...so far the import has been delayed for the reasons stated...but hopefully things will clear up and they will come soon...there are a few surprise in there...and one belongs to the Auchenipteridae familly.

Regarding Annoucement of fish brings bad luck... the aulopygia never came to me....maybe next time.
I found the same bad luck regarding spawning...I always had bad luck when I annouced a spawn occur...always ended up eaten or something, but each time I keep my mouth close regarding spawn...they always hatch and grow successfully....

Cheers
Yann

Posted: **16 Oct 2008, 19:39**

So let's start off with the things that didn't (quite) work out.....
The I intended to buy were after all and the 4 females I ordered through my LFS turned out to be 3 males and just 1 female, which adds up to a total of 8 males and 1 poor little girl. The LFS owner was also not amused for he had faxed a paper containing the sexual differences and was assured by the wholesaler that it was no problem at all to get 4 females......

Did anything go well? Indeed, very well.
I got home today with 2 , probably a pair. I hope these doradids are able to clean the bottom to such extent that there will be no more food left for the snails, thus causing these to decrease significantly. Moreover, I could have them for half price. I also met Bas Pels in that shop, which was nice for I hadn't seen him for a long time.
See next two pictures.

But the major surprise came at the beginning of the day. When we were on our way to buy a windjammer for my friend's motorcycle, we sort of came across an LFS that is rather irregularly on our visiting list. We decided to have a stop and to my utter happiness there were 9 .
It was actually the first time I saw them for sale at an LFS. All 9 are now over here

PS: the windjammer was bought as well

Posted: **16 Oct 2008, 19:57**

Indeed, it was nice to meet Marc again

He was even so kind as to show me the Tatia - Wow nice fishes

The other 2 Rhinodoras are now mine (I already got 3)

Posted: **17 Oct 2008, 12:09**

Bas Pels wrote:The other 2 Rhinodoras are now mine (I already got 3)

In which case everybody is happy, including the seller.

Posted: **17 Oct 2008, 22:46**

Yesterday evening the creutzbergis wouldn't eat, but this evening they made up for that. Like tiny racing cars they went through the tank, triggered by red mosquito larvae. In such a hurry that it almost seemed they had forgotten what they were up to. In the end all specimens had at least eaten something.
I'll feed again shortly in complete darkness to make sure they - and the perugiaes as well - get some more food.

Posted: **18 Oct 2008, 21:02**

According to the Tatia Revision (Sarmento & Martins, 2008) T. creutzbergi is no longer valid but a synonym for Tatia gyrina.
That's one for the Cat-eLog.

Posted: **19 Oct 2008, 21:24**

Just two snap shots.

This one is yet another bunch of eggs from the T. intermedias (middle of picture)

And this one to prove that the T. creutzbergi/gyrina are fond of larvae. But man are they fast! I took about 20 pictures and this was the only one I could use...

Posted: **22 Oct 2008, 00:50**

Hi Marc...

Sorry for the import...well at least you still got a female...
really nice finds!!!

So cool these Tatia gyrina... lucky you... I am jealous...
You gyrina pictures look similar to my Tatia sp (2)...the day coloration is different as you can see on the cat elog page...all pictures were taken during day time...but once the lights are off... the coloration look very similar to Tatia gyrina... the brown laterly line...but no brown dots at all...I really shall try taken a pic of the guy at night...would be interesting to compare!!

Cheers
Yann

Posted: **22 Oct 2008, 23:05**

Hi Yann,
I take it you saw this: http://www.ufrgs.br/ni/vol6num3/v06n3a22.pdf
Have a look at the description of T. gyrina. There are differences in colouration according to Sarmento. Have a look; at the other Tatias as well

.

Article provided by HH.

Posted: **25 Oct 2008, 00:58**

Hi Marc!

I had a quick read on it, but I did ask Luisa Sarmeto-Soares' opinion on the fish, here is her answer:

Hi Yann, Thanks for your contact. The catfish you have really seems to be Tatia gyrina. However, the spots are larger than usually observed in these fishes! The small anal-fin, visible in one of the pictures you sent, are compatible with the one of T. creutzbergi. Live specimens of Tatia gyrina have the lateral stripe somewhat faint, in comparison to alcoholic ones. The change in coloration you experienced seems not to be rare. I heard reports of colleagues collecting in Amazon that observed similar condition at night in other auchenipterids.

Cheers
Yann

Posted: **06 Nov 2008, 15:15**

I am now the proud owner of three

I picked out a male and two females, and my LFS has at least another 5, which I intend to purchase over the next few months. I picked the female I had already photographed, one other of a similar size and the male, although slightly slimmer, was the only definite one there. Of the remaining fish, there seem to be more females than males, and most of these are much smaller.
With the move from my Juwel tank to my new 30x18x18 happening this weekend, I will try and get some better photos of the females and some new ones of the male.
Martin
[Mod edit: Change Tatia sp(2) into Centromochlus romani --Mats]

Posted: **08 Nov 2008, 09:27**

Martin S wrote:I am now the proud owner of three
Centromochlus romani

I already knew you had a few auchenipterids, so this is not a welcome to "Club Auchenipteridae"

, yet it's good to see someone has a very special species. I truly hope you'll be able to get some more in the near future, for I doubt that this will become a regular imported auchenipterid.

[Mod edit: Fix quoted species. Used to say "Tatia sp(2)" --Mats]

Posted: **09 Nov 2008, 12:17**

Marc van Arc wrote:
Martin S wrote:I am now the proud owner of three Tatia sp(2)[/] (now
Centromochlus romani
)

I already knew you had a few auchenipterids, so this is not a welcome to "Club Auchenipteridae" , yet it's good to see someone has a very special species. I truly hope you'll be able to get some more in the near future, for I doubt that this will become a regular imported auchenipterid.

Thanks Marc
There are at least another 7 specimens, and I intend to buy them all over the next few months! Will try and get some more pictures as and when I can.
Martin

[Mod edit: Fix up old CLOG tags by replacing the tags around the old name with italic and adding the new species name in brackets --Mats]

Posted: **13 Nov 2008, 22:30**

even made it to the Netherlands! 34 specimens were offered by the wholesaler; 5 are from now on living with me.
They were offered btw as E. benjamini from Bolivia, but when looking at the tail they have to be E. gameroi.

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 00:53**

Hi Marc!!

Were they imported out of Bolivia??
Cheers
Yann

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 11:01**

They are offered as such, but it's a long way from Venezuela to Bolivia

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 20:17**

Though you chaps would like to see what I picked up today, sorry for the hurried pictures but had to share. Five fish, and two pairs. I think they are and they are even more beautiful than the pictures suggest. Otherwise, they're just like any other .

Jools

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 20:23**

Hi Jools!!

Really nice find!! Yeap looks like they are Centromochlus reticulatus

Cheers
Yann

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 21:39**

Yann sent me a PM about a "new" species from Bolivia that looks very much like E. gameroi, but has a slightly different tail pattern.
From my 5 specimens I saw 3 tonight. Two look exactly like gameroi, but one has a different tail pattern. Besides the horizontal stripe it also has a vertical black marking at the beginning of the tail.
Yann, is this what you were referring at?

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 21:44**

Talking of finds today - I helped out at my LFS late night, and when there, managed to bag what I believe to be a single specimen of ! Came in as a one off, and I left it bagged and have just got home and it's floating in my tank. Size is about 5", so fully grown. Colouring is darker than the catelog images - more dark brown than the paler tan, although it may change color once it's settled in. I'm not sure if it's a good idea, but think everything I have is big enough to not be food. It was impossible to say no to such a very kind gift! Of course, my concern is the smaller fish not getting fed so will have to keep an eye on things at feeding time - worse comes to worse I will have to find him a new home, but I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
I will watch it over the next few days and try and get some pictures to confirm ID, but just thought I'd share my 'find'.
They also had some very small C. perugiae - and when I say small, I mean small - around 1cm!
Martin

Just took a couple of pics in the bag to get the ball rolling...

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 22:01**

Hi Martin,
Indeed a great find. I had been looking for them for about 30 years when Neil helped me out last Christmas.
Yet I have to warn you. These are very keen hunters, especially towards the surface. If you are going to keep it with the perugiaes and the spec 2, I think you are taking an enormous risk of losing some of the small auchenipterids.
Mind you, this is not meant to scare you, but a well meant advice to inform you that this is not the best of combinations imo.
Hope you don't mind me saying so.

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 22:08**

Hi Marc
No, that's just the sort of advice I was after - it's not been let loose as yet, but I now have no choice. It may be that he will have to go back to the LFS until I am in a better position to house it. I have to admit, that was my biggest worry, and am concerned but until the morning there is nothing I can do. It's a shame you are not closer, as would happily have passed it straight to you as you have the space and experience to give it a decent home.
I thought you had ? I believe mine is a T. quadrifillis - is there any obvious differences? I have added a couple of pics above - hope it helps confirm ID.
Martin

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 22:12**

Yup, that's Tetranematichthys wallacei alright. Doesn't stop at 5"; mine are about 17 cms atm and will have a go at anything that may fit their gapes....and completely harmless towards non potential preys.
I felt I had to warn you because I know you are very happy with the perugiae and spec 2 and I wanted to prevent major disappointment. On the other hand I understand very well that you were tempted by this brilliant species. A very sad situation really. And although it won't work out, thanks for the intended offer.
I would have been very happy to house it.

The main difference between the two species is that quadrifilis is found is a very small and rather remote area, whereas wallacei is widely spread. Thus scientists concluded that the exported species is wallacei. I don't think people like us could tell both species apart

, but I could have a look into the article.

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 22:14**

Hi Marc!!

interesting this specimen, but doesn't look much like the bolivian type...which would be a bit opposite...instead of having extre black marking on the caudal fin, it has less...at the end the fish (from Boliva) look somewhat intermediate between Entomocorus gameroi and Entomocorus benjamini

Nice find Martin...

Cheers
Yann

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 22:18**

Oh bugger!

I looked on PC quickly before saying yes and thought it was the smaller quadrifillis...the darker colour threw me. Think it will have to go back tomorrow

as I do not want to lose the smaller T. sp2 and C. perugiae.

Yann wrote: Nice find Martin...

Thanks Yann

Martin

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 22:31**

Yann wrote:interesting this specimen, but doesn't look much like the bolivian type...which would be a bit opposite...instead of having extre black marking on the caudal fin, it has less...at the end the fish (from Boliva) look somewhat intermediate between Entomocorus gameroi and Entomocorus benjamini

You mean something like Entomocorus melaphareus?

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 22:35**

I replied before having a look at your pix. This has to be E. melaphareus according to the description. Do you have that paper? If not I could sent it to you.

Posted: **14 Nov 2008, 22:40**

Marc van Arc wrote:You mean something like Entomocorus melaphareus?

I check that species too but found this one rather distincitive, markings don't fit either...or at least I found it that way...but it has been some times already...maybe I got it all mixed up... I think I have it...not so sure but you can send it...I won't mind having it extra...
Cheers
Yann

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