PlanetCatfish.com

as i said the turtle's tank is also high in ammonia, so i have to take care of it too.

i dont use any gravel for the turtle, because she's pretty messy. and the filter is a fluval 304, apparently very different from the tetra whisper power 10, the one i have for the fish tank.

i still have doubts if i should replace the filter cartridge for a new one full of AMMO-CARB.

chrisinha wrote:troi,

i dont know what "media" is (is it the bag with the carbon?), the turtle tank has a fluval 304 filter, so it's totally different.
back to the fish tank:
should i replace the actual bag of carbon? it's pretty nasty! should i do the 20% water change tonight? Should i also vaccum the gravel and try to get rid of the waste and leftovers?

Sorry, I missed this one.

"media" is the plural of medium, in this case the medium for growing you denitrifying bacteria on.

If the carbon is yucky, get it out of the filter. I think you have a "cartrige" type bag? YOu just buy the carbon already bagged? You are supposed to just throw it away and by a new one. Media bags like the net ones you buy empty at the fish store or make out of a stocking can be emptied out, rinsed and refilled.

You can replace it with either the ammocarb or the resin. I would go with the resin, myself. Do not remove and replace all the media in the filter box at the same time. You can take out some tank water, like in the bucket you use for water changes and rinse the cartridge in that if they are yucky. But old carbon has to go. Yours shouldn't be too old, so it might be ok to rinse it.

In general, if stuff looks nasty, rinse it well in tank water and otherwise clean it out. Don't do any major cleaning till the tanks settles down, just as much as it takes to get organic matter out of the tank.

Do vacuum. That tank is a little crowded, if I recall you have a plec in there, so you will have to vacuum more often than normal. Since the bio colony is not established, only vacuum deep enough to remove the uneaten food and fish wastes. If you are seeing alot of heavy wastes or any uneaten food, you probably have been feed more than the fish need. Even if not, reduce the amount of food.

Do do a 20% change. Since you have to change water alot now, make the best match in temp. you can --I use my hand to see how close temp is., but some ppl use a thermometer.

Vacuuming gets less messy and yo get less wet with practice. Hang in there.

troi

troi wrote:
I think you have a "cartrige" type bag? YOu just buy the carbon already bagged?

yep, that's exactly what i have.

ok, i just did a 20% water change. i feel so bad for the fish, especially the corys, 'cos they get soo stressed out!
i just changed the water because it's 1:20 am now and im pretty tired. i'll do the vacumming tomorrow, promise.

i opened the cartridge bag and added some of the AMMO-CARB (it's actually TWO products in ONE: it has the activated carbon + the resin) and put the cartridge back in the filter. Im definitely getting a better filter, but i have to wait till after christmas. any suggestion on a better filter, or should i wait the bio colony to get established?

i have a thermometer on the tank.

thanks!

i tested the water again this morning. it's still 2.0. im going to do a 10% water change and vaccum. the problem with vaccumming is that i usually end up "losing" a lot of water. should i use more AmQuel plus?

the fish look fine, but im still very concerned about them, especially the "sick" one.

troi wrote:If you can steal water and media from the turtle tank without stressing the turtle tank, do it. Don't take more than 20-25 per cent of the turtle water. Don't leave the turtle tank with too little media if it does not have a good bed of gravel or lotsa rocks and so forth to make up for the filter media loss. What kind of filter is on the turtle tank and how long has it been up?
troi

i tested the turtle's water this morning too, and the ammonia dropped to 1.0 ppm. im going to do a 15-20% water change and use this water to put in the fish tank. is it ok? i dont use bottom gravel, and the rocks i have in there are for the basking area's ramp, so i cant take them out. the filter is a FLUVAL 304 and it's been up for about 2-3 months.

troi, im really sorry for bugging you (and untitled) with this problem, and i really appreciate what you're guys doing for me.

I wouldn't use the turtle's water. There's no point in it, as it has ammonia already. If I may speak for troi, I think he was talking about getting something from your turtle tank because he thought it was cycled. If it's not, then there is no point. On top of that, the bacteria are not free-swimming, so there won't be any in the water itself.

Also, when you vacuum the gravel do it very gently. Bacteria also colonise the gravel and disturbing the gravel too much will kill it. For the same reason don't mess too much with the filter at the moment -- that will kill off some of your bacteria.

You say the fish look fine. If their fins are erected, they don't dart around or are too lethargic (remember, cories are a bit shy and they don't swim a lot during the day even at the best of times) or behave strangely in any other way it means that you're on the right track.

I have an extensive experience with AmQuel and it really an excellent product, even in higher levels of ammonia. It should have by now detoxified all of the ammonia and nitrites in the water and your fish should be feeling better, so things should be done gently now. Change 10% of the water with new water. Vacuum gently, but not more than once a week. Unless your ammonia levels shoot up, there's no need for more AmQuel only dose with half the amount of AmQuel. Let nature take over from you, it will.

Two more points:
1. NitrAtes. These should not and probably never will be 0ppm. They are the end product of the nitrifying process and should not exceed a level of 40ppm (and some people claim 20ppm). Some of the nitrate will be used by the plants, if you have any, the rest will be dilluted when you do your weekly/bi-weekly water changes. Don't worry about it now (unless it's over 40, which it's probably not)

2. Have you used the ammo-carb? If not, I would suggest not to. They will filter the ammonia out of the water, but your tank will not cycle for the full production of ammonia of your fish, and when you do take it out later, your bacteria will have to adjust again, which means another mini-cycle. 2ppm of ammonia can easily be treated by AmQuel Plus which will make it safe for the fish on one hand, but available for the bacteria. If you have used it, don't take it out though. In about two weeks it will gradually stop working and I'd suggest taking it out in a month or so. But I would suggest using that ultra carbon you mentioned. That will filter the excess AmQuel out of your water, which I think is good, but not absolutely necessary.

I hope I'm not contradicting anything troi said . If you have more questions, I'm around at the moment so don't hesitate.

Untitled wrote:I wouldn't use the turtle's water. ... as it has ammonia already. If I may speak for troi, I think he was talking about getting something from your turtle tank because he thought it was cycled.
...Also, when you vacuum the gravel do it very gently. ...don't mess too much with the filter at the moment -- that will kill off some of your bacteria.
...You say the fish look fine. If their fins are erected,... or behave strangely in any other way it means that you're on the right track.
...I have an extensive experience with AmQuel and it really an excellent product, even in higher levels of ammonia. ...there's no need for more AmQuel only dose with half the amount of AmQuel. Let nature take over from you, it will.

Oh, no, I second all of this.

My only addition is that in using the old regular Amquell, be very careful in soft water esp--it will lower pH. When I have to use it, I add some sort of buffer. The newer Amquell Plus we are discussing here does NOT lower pH, if what the manufacturer told me can be trusted. I have not had as much pH problem with it as I did with Amquell regular--which had me working my way with great speed to the Dead Fish Societ membership requirements ;-)

troi

I also wanted to ask: how is the fish's fin doing? Still growing?

i opened the cartridge bag and added some of the AMMO-CARB (it's actually TWO products in ONE: it has the activated carbon + the resin) and put the cartridge back in the filter. Im definitely getting a better filter, but i have to wait till after christmas. any suggestion on a better filter, or should i wait the bio colony to get established?

Yes, limit messing around with the filter to what is absoluely necessary to getting gunk out and, again, use tank water not tap water to rinse the cartridge.

The Whisper is an adequate filter for a small home system. You have just done what most of us did when we started out, which is get the tank a bit overloaded too soon because of an emergency in another tank ;-).

I personally object to any filter whose manufacturer makes you think you have to buy the prefab cartridge that is over designed in the first place, costs the hobbiest more money than is really necessary for a good filter, fills up the land fills with all that plastic and in general encourages a dispo-encomony. You can adapt the cartridge so the media can be replaced with having to toss the whole thing in mother earth too often.

that said:

I strongly recommend the AquaClear hang-on box filter for any tank. AquaClears are cheap, cheap to run, have room n the box for three different kinds of stuff (carbon, sponges, buffer aragonite like I use to harden my snowpack run thru granite SOFT water, ammo resin, whatever you want, need to add.), easy to clean, last forever. Replacement parts are available from either the manufacturer or a well stocked, service oriented LFS. For your ten gal tank, the AquaClear mini should do fine. You can also take one of the (fully cycled) foam blocks out of the box, add it to another box of the same or different size and kick start a new tank.

I use AquaClears on my 100 gal over stocked Synodontis tank. Fish do so well they keep trying to make more fish.

Use a small diameter vacuum for change the water in a small tank. Lee makes one designed for "ten gallon tanks," they usually run aobut $7 at the store. Take the back flap out with a pair of needle nose pliers, or just live wiht the hassel it creates, no big deal there.

You need to know about:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Shop.cfm?N=2004
and
http://www.800padutch.com/z/thatfishplace.htm

Both have been around forever, are knowledgeable, have better than average customer service and will send you nice real paper catalogue if you call and ask them to.

But, when you can, please support your local fish store.

troi

Thank you, guys once again!

i just came back from the vet, cos my 14 year old dog had had some mammary tumors removed 2 weeks ago and it was time to have the sutures removed too! so, im heading out to the pet store to buy a stand for the fish tank so that it's easier for me to clean it.

the corys, except for the "sick' one (he does seem to be a little lethargic), are fine. their fins are erected and they are not darting around nor are too lethargic. the mollies are funny as always, the guppies following the mollies around and the pleco in his little cave. the snail has been on the tank's surface.

Untitled wrote:I also wanted to ask: how is the fish's fin doing? Still growing?

oh yes! his tail fin has grown bigger!! i'll try to take a picture when i come back and will post here later! i dont have my digital with me, but i'll try the SLR again!

EDIT: he's swimming around!!! omg!! im so happy now! you know what? we need to give him a name! im counting on you both to find him a good name!! ;)

see you guys later!!

ok, i found a crappy digital camera at home, but i guess you can see his tail fin

I think with all the talk of tank cycling and general husbandry information this topic is more appropiate for the Tank Talk Forum.

Mark