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CharlieM9 wrote:They actually are a rather funny species to get a "real" incubation time from unless you would move the dad the morning that you notice the eggs. Because at least with mine I have observed females adding to the size of the spawn within a few days, and also males even swapping eggs from two males to just one male holding. It appears in this last case as though it follows the hierarchy of dominance.

Thanks for the info, Charlie. I suppose this type of behavior does present some complicating problems when it comes to defining the incubation period for the species. I would imagine that there is an approximate number of days typically required per egg to hatch. From the numbers you and another PC member have posted on the CLOG for the species (9 and 14 days), I suspect that these shorter times are more representative of the actual time per egg than is 20 days. But even if exchange between brooding males is not considered, your observation that females do not lay all their eggs at once, but come back to the male and deposit more eggs into the clutch over a period of days, means that the average clutch time (20 days or so) may be more meaningful to the hobbyist (and to the dad, obviously, LOL), unless the hobbyist wishes to capture and separate each fry as it hatches. But that would seem to be impractical, in fact almost risky, if the stress of trying to grab out the early hatchlings might cause the dad to abandon any unhatched eggs (I'm just speculating here, because I don't know how committed and tolerant of a parent these dads are; some fish I've kept abandon their eggs (or eat them) at the slightest disturbance).

I'm curious, have you left any of the fry with the father? If so, what happens? How does dad divide his time between herding young (if at all) and nursing unhatched eggs?

Cheers, Eric

Eric, I imagine I would actually have to pry the dads lips off of the eggs. I have actually netted him and moved him to a tank to hatch the fry and release them, then, move him back. I have used both hand and net for this scenario.

After they hatch he pays 0 attention to them. He is more concerned with eating up for a couple days so he can spawn again. The females do not pay them any attention either after hatching. As Jac said earlier they may be the laziest of the lazy family of whiptails! If I find time to take a few pics I will this weekend so you can see adults and 2-3 different spawns of some kids all in the same tank.

Thanks Charlie!

The fry toward the back are about one week free swimming. It only looks as if I was able to capture 2 spawns....missed the mid size between the larger and teeny juveniles, with papa in back with another mouthful ;)! Enjoy!!!

Cool!

Jac, how is your male doing with those eggs?

It didn't work out with his first time being a daddy I'm afraid.. He let the eggs go two days ago. There were only a few eggs left.
I put them in a small fry saver and hoped for the best. I just came home from work and saw there was a little bit of fungus on the eggs.
So better luck next time I hope ;)

I found him holding a new clutch this morning

That is a quick turn around!!! Must have multiple females who are ready and willing to go! Lucky male!!!

My male keeps losing the eggs after a week or so. This is his 3rd attempt.

Hmmmm. It looks like your sand is actually sticking to the eggs. I have not seen this happen with mine. Maybe it is freaking him out causing him to think there is something bad on them and just abandon them? Have you tried tumbling them, or is he eating them?

Have read this thread with interest and am looking for guidance/help. I had 3 whiptails in my tank for a few months now and at the weekend added another 4 from the same lfs (and I believe the same brood) as he is refurbishing his set up. This evening I suddenly noticed that 1 was covering eggs on the outlet filter and 1 on glass at the other end of the tank. The one on the glass drifted away from the few eggs he was covering (possibly because my 2 angels were showing great interest?). The one on the outlet filter seem to have quite a large spawn and was not moving away when the angels approached (they did not try to get too close to him). Unfortunately I had to go out for the evening. When I returned I removed the 2 angels and attempted to move the eggs on the glass by the usual scraping method but they were obviously just marks of where the eggs had been. The other male was still sitting on eggs on the outlet pipe. The whiptails are in a community tank with 3 types of tetras and various types of Corys. Should I leave things as they are or attempt to move the eggs (and male?) to another tank. I must confess I do not buy fish to breed but because I like them. I they do breed I like to do what I can to raise the fry. Any guidance would be appreciated (including book references). Thanks.

Geoff,

It sounds as if you have a species of sturisoma most likely from spawning habits. I would leave the eggs with the father in the main tank as long as you feel comfortable while also watching fry development in the eggs. When you think they look close to hatching is when I would move the eggs to a separate container. Be mindful I would start this container cycling now. With water from the main tank and maybe some substrate and plants also. This is an enormously large step that in my personal experience I cannot stress how important this cycling process is for the fry container.

I must disclose I have not bred any sturisoma sp. but have bred other cave/tube spawning whiptails and handled them this way. You may need to have a cheap, thin, soft paint brush ready to gently rub the egg casing to help the fry hatch if they appear to be having trouble. It's a very gentle and light touching of the paintbrush bristles that will do this. Pictures of the adults/eggs may help with better, more specific advice!

Thanks for that information Charlie, I have already started cycling a small tank (practice with other fish).

I have a photo and once I know how to attach it to a post I will do so. Any ideas?

Geoff

This is my spawning sturisoma.

I would just watch the egg development closely and when you think they are close to hatching use a razor blade or other instrument of choice to slide them off their current area and into a plastic container of some kind. Then just dump that into their hatching container. I would make sure there are several oak leaves in the hatching container to help allow the fry to graze all day. As having food available to them 24/7 seems to be key. If you under feed all may seem well, but a week or so later you will have large die offs within days, or the whole group of fry. If you have microworms they help a lot with feeding the fry. The repashy gel foods also help for fry.

Using something like a razor blade could be difficult as the eggs are on the outlet tube - will probably have to detach the tube to transfer to the hatching tank. Any idea how long the hatching period is? I presume I can get oak leaves on E-bay (should not have given up dwarf cichlids). I have microworms on the go - is there any particular one of the repashy gel foods you would recommend?
Thanks for your help.

I just recently spawned my Sturisomatichthys (very similar to your Sturisoma).

Mine were in a 40 gallon tank with a handful of Keyhole cichlids and some L020. My first spawn I scraped the eggs off with a blade and hatched them in a bell hatching jar. They had difficulty breaking through the egg shell but 3 of them did. I still have one survivor from that spawn.

My second spawn I left with the male and let them hatch in the tank. After hatching, the fry seemed to congregate near the top of the tank. It was quite simple to scoop them out with a brine shrimp net and transfer them to a hatchery container floating in another tank. I would just go down every 4-5 hours throughout the day and catch any I could find.

I kept mine in the hatchery container for 30 days and fed baby brine shrimp daily along with Repashy Spawn N Gro. There was also a lot of algae that I scraped off the undersides of my glass lids for them to graze on.

I just recently moved them to a 15 gallon growout tank and am still feeding bbs, Repashy, and vegetables (they seem to really like fresh pea husks).

Andy

Thanks for the info Andy - I will try your second spawn and see what happens.

Geoff

Keep us posted with the progress Geoff! Good luck!

Disaster struck today. While cleaning the external filter I managed to break the ceramic impeller shaft, which meant I had to replace the complete filter system. To my delight when removing the outlet filter, which still had some eggs on it, I spotted 1 fry on the glass and managed to transfer it to the hatching tank. Have also placed the tube in the same tank and will watch with interest to see if any of the eggs develop.

Why couldn't you just replace the impeller?

Back to the knob nose whiptails: Are they a fast growing species or more slowly growing?
I also have some H. acipenserinus around 5 cm. I'm just wondering how long it would take until they become adult or better to say to the age when spawing would be possible.

Anja

Anja,

They are rather fast growing up until about 5cm At that point is when they really need to start putting on more mass than length and growth extends to a snails pace crawl.....

Probably cheaper to replace just the shaft, but either way it is not a stock item and has to be ordered - unfortunately LFS is undergoing refurbishment and will get it as soon as he can. In meantime I now have 3 fry swimming happily in the fry tank.