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Bas Pels wrote: I can not think of any reason why you would keep them together. Both are similarily available, similarily prized, so an argument 'I wanted to expand my group of 4 L200, and could only find, or afford, L128 just is not valid.

But perhaps I'm missing something??

I think that may be Euro-centric. In my neck of the woods (west coast of Canada), the L128 are much much harder to get and are pricier. Only one importer has brought them in. I wanted a group of L128, but there were some L200 available, so I got some to cut my teeth on how to keep them alive. When I got the L128, I was loathe to give my my 2 L200 since I had already had them 3 months and they were beautiful to look at and were less shy than the L128. I had fully intended to sell the L200's, but they were readily available, so I would have had to take a loss to sell them, and since I liked the fish, there was no reason to sell at a loss when the fish are in a 125 gallon and in no way crowded in the diverse habitat I have provided.

In general, I would agree with you and Mats on the bastardization thing. If I were trying to breed them, I would definitely separate them, and plan to be doing so this summer, moving the L128 to a 100 gallon by themselves to see if I can get some breeding action. But at this point, I don't have the space or time to do so.

Either way, I've found this debate to be healthy until it got personal, and I would urge everyone to "clean it up" a bit and continue on with the debate, but leave the "baggage" behind.

I don't post here very much but I lurk constantly so here is my 2 cents:
Frankly I admire those who buy a group of fish, L200 or otherwise, and are disciplined enough to keep them in species tanks, provide the exact water chemistry including seasonal changes, and make every effort to breed them. The older and more experienced I become in this hobby, the more I move in that direction. Unfortunately family/time/money doesn't allow me to do everything I should be doing for my fish as listed above. I'm certainly not disciplined enough to have a species tank or get the water chemistry exact (I use tap water) but I don't compromise on water changes and some other things. I think we all know what the ideal setup for the fish would be and we should strive to provide that within our own means. Purity within a captive breeding group is important from a scientific perspective as well as within our hobby. The common bristlenose is a perfect example. It sure would be nice to have the pure strain of the original fish alive in the hobby. Unfortunately, we may never know the exact background of the fish.

Back to the original topic:
I keep a group of 4 of what I would consider Hemiancistrus Subviridis (L200) in a 4'x18" tank with 3 powerheads and 2 eheim canisters (they love the current). I originally bought 3 L200s from Snookn21 on aquabid (good seller) a year and a half ago for my community tank. I lost 1 fish in the first couple months but the remaining two have done really well. In my transition to a tank more dedicated to the L200s specifically (see above), I purchased 2 more from Snookn21 for a total of 4 fish in the tank. I removed all the plants and I have only wood, rock, and sand in the tank. The first thing that struck me after the addition of the new L200s was the change in behavior of the original 2 fish. They are much more active and quickly formed a social hierarchy. To anyone keeping single specimens of these fish: I found them much more fascinating to watch with more of their own kind. The other thing I noticed was the color difference. The original 2 fish are nearly fluorescent green. The new fish are more of an olive drab green. Their spots are slightly different too. They are still attractive fish but it makes me believe there are definite differences in color based on collection location. I have seen L128s in stores here rarely, but the true ones definitely look much different than the fish I have. Another interesting observation, to me anyways, was that the olive colored fish have brightened up somewhat and are getting more difficult to tell apart from the other two just based on color alone. It will be interesting to see if this continues or if they stay a duller green. Anybody else notice a brightening of these fish over about a 3 month period?

When I started this thread I really had no intention of things getting personal, but back off Bas! Take another read and as I said to Mats, don't force your opinions on other fishkeepers "why would you keep the two fish together" you asked. 10 of one or the other looks better than a mixed group, you said. YOUR OPINION! And who are you to shout it at others and have a go at me a the same time.

Mats, apologies on the presumption regarding your fish shed/room. But other than that all I've said and grid to do here is be open minded about the link between green and blue phantoms and discuss it with other fishkeepers.
And at the end of the day, you knew I had L200s and I advertised looking for more and pretty quickly in our conversations you were offering to sell me your spare L128. Quite ironic huh?

Anyway, back to the real discussion or call it a day because this is tiresome!

And if Bas can say Bastard, I'll say Bollocks!


keep it cheery gents

2wheelsx2 wrote:I think that may be Euro-centric. In my neck of the woods (west coast of Canada), the L128 are much much harder to get and are pricier.

I looked at a exporter's list the other day, and L200 is indeed about half the price of L128 at similar size (same number of fish per bag).

I haven't seen many places where L128 are for sale at the moment - Pier, some branches of Maidenhead Aquatics, Wildwoods would have them. I don't remember seeing any at Wholesale Tropicals several months back - but I could have forgot what I saw, of course. L200 are a little bit more common, and several months back, my LFS could get just about L200 (small, medium and large sizes), regular Ancistrus, Chaetostoma and one or two other species from their regular supplier. L128 and most other exotic plecos were NOT on that list - now, this is not exactly the "pleco wholesaler of the year".

In other words, L128 are not COMMON in this country (and probably not in the rest of Europe).

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Mats

Flyfisher wrote:And at the end of the day, you knew I had L200s and I advertised looking for more and pretty quickly in our conversations you were offering to sell me your spare L128. Quite ironic huh?

Yes, and you also said that you had only males of your L200 - I offered a male. I don't think males will breed. I took it that you wanted a male L128 for the very reason that you already had L200 males, and that would allow you to avoid breeding...

And I haven't said you can't keep a group of males together, or a group of females. Just no mixed sexes where there are males of one and females of another species that are closely related - that applies whether they are Hemiancistrus or any other genus.

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Mats