PlanetCatfish.com

KungFish wrote:No need for them to pop up, I already have a chance to buy them

Any updates?

I will probably buy 2 of them. However, I have a large number of fish being shipped to me soon (including 3 "canero black" I mentioned in the thread of the same name), and I want them to get settled in before I buy more fish.

your numbers per species baffle me. For a fish that isn't common in the trade, why only get 2? you should try to breed them to make them more readily available for US hobbyists. IMO, i would have gone with one species of catfish and a larger group (say 6+) in hopes of breeding, rather than 2-3 specimens of 4 species. Just my 2 cents.

I have absolutely no experience breeding fish. A rare species with undocumented breeding hits probably wouldn't be a good place to start.

nvcichlids wrote:IMO, i would have gone with one species of catfish and a larger group (say 6+) in hopes of breeding, rather than 2-3 specimens of 4 species.

I think that both approaches to stocking are good, but in this particular aquarium, I wanted diversity. And, had I known about the availability of the acsi before I ordered my other fish, I would have made accommodations to allow for more. However, I found out about them afterwards, thus not having space for a medium-large group, which would have been ideal.

I appreciate your 2 cents. :)

Two things wrt the S. asci:

- I had 9 specimens once and all were males...... I had never seen a female until The Dark One posted a pic, which should be somewhere in this thread. Two specimens may look too few, yet they should be okay

but:

- I noticed you want to keep them in a diverse setting. Please note that these fish are very shy ime, especially when accompanied by larger (cat-)fish, which may result in starvation of S. asci. So keep a close watch and also feed at pitch black in case you have food competitors that only feed with lights on. Feeding with lights out at least reduces the amount of food competitors.

Luckily, there will be no fishes larger than the acsi in my aquarium. In fact, most species (all except cardinal tetras) in my aquarium are going to be a bit shy. So, being the largest of a group of shy fishes, the acsi will probably do well, if I get them.

And I do plan on feeding in both the day and night, to allow the nocturnal fish to thrive.

In that case I see no problems. Give them some time to adapt and they will show up at feeding time, no doubt.

Update on my auchenipterids:

Ageneiosus sp(4) : female again improving compared to last week and nips at food; male slightly better than very bad, but still not eating
Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus : one female "beyond repair"; four specimens fine and eating
Ageneiosus atronasus : all seven fine, grouping and eating
Spinipterus sp(1) - Auchenipterichthys coracoideus - Auchenipterichthys punctatus : all are doing fine

Needless to say that I'm still worried about the Ageneiosus sp(4), but I was told that recovery from poisoning may take months instead of weeks (let alone days, as I initially hoped for.....).
I also made a rather stupid mistake wrt the sick fishes: instead of looking at hollow bellies, I should have looked for "sharp" backs. The backs of both fish are still fleshy, which indicates they still have some reserves.

Good news Marc.

Here my Tatia strigata has been scattering eggs again.
I put them in a drifting container and hoping this time I can raise some young with floating dried artemia.
Today the eggs allready have "tails"

Now that is what I call very good news. Pls keep those wrigglers alive - even if it means you can't go on holiday shortly

I must add that I am being helped - yet again - tremendously by ex-forum member Sidguppy in my efforts to keep my fishes alive. Not giving him the credits he deserves would be absolutely rude.

I commend you for trying your best to save your fish! I once spent $70 trying to save one sick tetra. So many people would not even try!

jodilynn wrote:I commend you for trying your best to save your fish!

Thanks again, but misfortune has (re-)entered my tank - just like yours.
Things have apparently been too much for some auchenipterids, thus giving the dreaded Ich(*) a chance to spread. And spread it did....
Not the first time this has happened, but - especially in my current mood - the last time as far as I'm concerned.
After 44 years the end of my hobby seems awfully near. It's therefore very tempting to let things go, if you know what I mean.
Nevertheless, I'll do my utmost to save the ones that still can be saved with medication, salt, extra oxygen and a temperature raise.
If that doesn't work, it's over and done with. If it does work, it might be over and done with.

Apparently I do not have "it" anymore, so I'd better find some hobby where no lives are at stake. Also, after having head aches, belly aches and many sleepless nights since last December, I should think of myself. This really wears me out and that is not what a hobby should do imo.

@Jodilynn: I hope your fish gets well soon. Don't let the Ich spread!

* : the "old" Ich was a rather simple disease and very curable. The current Ich-strain is a killing bastard, is much more difficult to cure and seems resistant to a lot of medicins.

First victim: Ageneisosus sp 4 male.
It may sound strange, but I'm relieved, both for the fish as for myself.

I can imagine that .
Still hoping for the best: may all other fish and hobby survive.

My beloved Midnights have caught some horrible bacterial infection, my smaller female died, and my male and other female are in my hospital tank. They looked a tad better this morning but not so good again tonight .

They aren't eating, but I am trying my best. I have a towel covering most of the tank to keep it dark for them and I stole a cave out of the 55 for them to hide in (it was kind of funny I went past the big tank and my 3 Kuboti loaches and my Redtail Shark were sitting where the cave had been like, wth???).

I am hoping they pull through, I am so heartbroken right now ...

After 44 years the end of my hobby seems awfully near. It's therefore very tempting to let things go, if you know what I mean.

Please don't give up. I am too heartbroken and overwhelmed right now, as I am treating the 40 gallon for ick and the 10 gallon for the bacterial infection. Water changes and more water changes, the 40 gallon cube is just a bear to work with (I am short and have short arms and the tank is so darn deep!), and of course I have my other 8 tanks to worry about, I can't fall behind on their maintenance, plus I have a couple other small tanks I was going to set up...my son keeps bugging me ...

Yes, when things go wrong, it is very tempting to say oh the heck with it I'm DONE, but when things are going ok and I get to see all my lovely little friends and get the excitement and joy of going to the fish store and finding something new and exciting, or watching a little bitty fish grow into something magnificent...well, I have to focus on that. I have to get my pleco better somehow (she did look a little better last night when I saw her, only a few bumps, and she was ornery enough to chase off my Olga Corys when they got too close to her), and I have to try my best to save my Midnights, I've waited 30 years to keep those fish again, and I want so badly to sit in my son's room, quietly watching them zip around like little UFOs in his tank, and feel that happiness they brought me again.

If you need some inspiration to keep trying, go over to the African Catfish forum and read the "Rescue of a Synodontis ill treated" thread. Start at the beginning, and make sure you click on and look at the first picture. Then look at what Stine has done. I hope it makes your heart as happy as it did mine.

So I will try my best to save my sad little Pleco, and probably rehome her to my 55 gallon that I can keep at a warmer temperature for her. And I will see my Midnights quietly zooming around my son's tank again.

"Have faith...believe..."

Two more victims: the old Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus female and a large Ageneiosus atronasus female.
I'm pretty sure none of the atronasus will survive.

OH, Marc I am so sorry!

I did add salt last night after the water change, my male's color has improved however there seems to be a small bloody cut on it's belly but it looks like it's under the skin?

He's still a bit pink, and his eyes look a bit cloudy, but his respiration has come down considerably and looks to be approaching normal. Fins are still clamped. My female looks normal, color is great, fins down a bit, but she's starting to look a bit thin.

Sigh...

If you're doing a daily 25% water change, pls beware that you re-add 25% of the medication that disappears with the water change. The same goes for the salt.
Ime you should refrain from water changes during a treatment, unless the instruction leaflet tells you to do so. After the cure you could restart regular water changes.
You have also added an extra airstone. Have you also raised the temperature a bit?

Hang in there, because this method pays off. Over here the A. punctatus and the Rio Nanay Angels are as good as healthy again - and if someone had told me that 4 days ago, I would have thought he'd/she'd gone mad. Even the atronasus seem to be on their way back to recovery - as well as my hobby!

Good luck saving your fish. If you have any questions, pls ask.

Marc van Arc wrote:Even the atronasus seem to be on their way back to recovery - as well as my hobby!

Great news to start the weekend!

kruseman wrote:Here my Tatia strigata has been scattering eggs again.
I put them in a drifting container and hoping this time I can raise some young with floating dried artemia.
Today the eggs allready have "tails"

Only a few survived, but have grown. They're all black and laying on the bottom of the container all day.

kruseman wrote:Only a few survived, but have grown. They're all black and laying on the bottom of the container all day.

That's a big surprise! What are you feeding them?

I feed them with dried artemiacysts.

I am glad to hear things are looking up Marc. I was terribly disheartened to hear you were thinking about throwing in the towel. Look at it this way, you've been in this hobby for longer than I have been alive (albeit not by much ) and that is something to be commended in my book!

Me...been a long, sad couple weeks. I lost one of my tiny Gouramis last night. That makes the 4th fish in two weeks. My one platy is acting weird, and sadly I think at least one, if not two, of my w/c Olga Corys isn't going to make it. My ancient, blind Betta is becoming increasingly lethargic and is no longer feeding. I am still battling to save my two remaining Midnight Cats.

Even my husband commented about what is going on. He's like, wow, you never usually have troubles like this...

As far as the meds, they need to be added every day after a 25% water change. I also replace the salt. The LFS gave me a different medication, the one I was using may have helped with the internal infection, this one should take care of the external problems. I did not ask about raising the temp, I remember the LFS cautioning against that as bacteria thrive/multiply faster in warmer temps.

They are not eating so I have stopped putting food into the tank.

jodilynn wrote:I did not ask about raising the temp, I remember the LFS cautioning against that as bacteria thrive/multiply faster in warmer temps.

Jodilynn,
Just because bacteria grow faster at high temperature doesn't mean that bacterial infections will automatically get worse if you raise the temperature in your tanks. Think about what happens to people when we get bacterial infections: we get a FEVER! And that's designed to be a good thing, not a bad thing: Medical research shows that at higher temperatures, blood iron levels drop in humans; and this drop in iron actually hinders the reproduction of bacteria in the body, slowing their spread and giving our own immune system (which is also more active at higher temperatures) more time to combat them. In fact, a lot of scientists and doctors believe today that a slight fever is actually a good thing for a human during a bacterial infection - so let your body do its job; for my family and me, we only use ibuprofen or acetaminophen products to lower fever when the fever is having other side effects or when it's getting too high (over 100-101 F).

Likewise, research has shown that lizards with bacterial infections voluntarily choose to sit in "hotter" locations in their terraria; as a result they recover more rapidly and have a lower chance of death due to the infection if they are allowed to elevate their body temperature. There is similar evidence in fish, even though many fish don't select temperatures as hot as a lizard would. Here is a link to an older paper that examines this issue: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v2 ... 043a0.html

Also, think about this: if higher temperatures cause bacteria to breed faster, it will also speed up the fish's metabolism, including its own immune system, and that will help the fish recover.

I'm not advocating that you should raise the temperature, or should not. But I'm just pointing out that raising the temperature is not necessarily harmful to a fish with a bacterial infection.

Good luck with your fish (and Good luck to you, Marc, also),
Eric

EDIT: Here is a more recent paper on the subject. It happens to be about fish fevers and viruses, but the fever principle is the same: http://classic.rspb.royalsocietypublish ... 1.full.pdf

Well, thankfully, knock on wood, the new medicine, higher temps and the addition of salt seem to be working on my beloved Midnight Cats!

Their color is much better, especially on my male, they are both swimming around more, and most encouraging, they are eating again! Live brine shrimp are gone, frozen bloodworms disappear, and I have NEVER been so happy to see fish poop!

I am hopeful this will be over soon, I am hoping the "wrong" medicine I had given them (Metronidazole) cleared up whatever was going on internally with them (my male had long stringy white "blobs" coming out of him when I moved them to the hospital tank) and the Kanamycin took care of the bacterial infection and septicemia.

I am keeping my fingers crossed. I really do love these fish!

Marc, I do hope things are going better for you. Please remain hopeful!

Marc van Arc wrote:Two more victims: the old Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus female and a large Ageneiosus atronasus female. I'm pretty sure none of the atronasus will survive.

One other atronasus has died, but afaics that is going to be it. Which means 5 atronasus and the female of Ageneiosus sp 4 have made it to recovery - to my utter surprise.
However, once they are 100% well again, I'm going to find a new home for them. For some reason every time these are the first fishes to become ill, which made me think about the probable cause. As they are very skittish - at least my specimens are - I can only conclude that living with larger tankmates constantly stresses them, thus making them liable to diseases. So I'm going to find them a quiet place somewhere.
This may sound like the easy way out - and it probably is - but I'm not going to wait for outbreak number X.

And then I called Alex and he said: you can't possibly give them away to someone else or an LFS. They will wipe out an entire tank in case they get ill again. And because this is a very nasty Ich-strain, people will not know what's happening, nor will they know how to cope with it. You either keep them yourself and wait for the next disaster to happen or you have to put them to sleep. This had in fact been the plan, but because of their recovery I got second thoughts.
To cut a long story short: this afternoon I caught them out of the tank (very carefully, because I didn't want the other fishes to get stressed once more) and I indeed put them to sleep. Not proud of it. But relieved - to a certain extent.

Jodilynn, how are your fishes doing atm?

This may sound like the easy way out - and it probably is - but I'm not going to wait for outbreak number X

Knowing you as a keen and responsible fishkeeper it was probably not that easy to put them to sleep...
However: Of all scenarios this is apparently the least bad choice. Thumbs up for the future!