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The three T. dunni I have held for Martin S were definitely very shy, even for Tatia type fish. But I have seen examples where fish are really shy when young, and get less shy with age (and the other way around for that matter), so I would very much agree it's not a good identification sign.

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Mats

I'm keeping one specimen of T. dunni and I can only confirm this is a very elusive species.
It is in a rather small tank here a.t.m. and it's the largest fish in there but it never ever shows itself.

I have to say the the colouration of my dunni (got it from Marc) is darker and plainer than the ones posted . I don't recognize the elongated bodyshape as well here.

kruseman wrote:I'm keeping one specimen of T. dunni and I can only confirm this is a very elusive species.
It is in a rather small tank here a.t.m. and it's the largest fish in there but it never ever shows itself.

I have to say the the colouration of my dunni (got it from Marc) is darker and plainer than the ones posted . I don't recognize the elongated bodyshape as well here.

I'd agree with the above. I never see my three except when I feed small pellets after lights out - they will come out and feed but I never see them whilst the lights are on.
Martin

The.Dark.One wrote:

Jools wrote: @Steve, have you got another similar species of Taria thr shows a different cranial morphology?

What do you mean?

I'm just trying to find out how different other species are. I've had another good look at my (super shy) and there is the beginnings of an extended upper caudal fin, and the cranial shield looks very similar, but, really, it's a 10th of the size of Richard's fish and showing now signs of growing. If they did get this big, I'd expect them to grow at the rate of a for example.

Jools

They were supplied to Pier as Tatia sp. 'Paim'. And they are from the Piamotes river. I don't know if the 'a' and the 'i' are the right way around. I don't know where exactly that is but I think Steve said that known glanidium species were not from that location.
Neil and I suspect these fish are a glanidium species... The males particularly are very elongated - see Steve's photo earlier. The dash dash pattern on these cats is quite different to the T Dunni in the c-log.
So they remain a bit of a mystery fish.
These fish are not shy about coming out when the food goes in. They hunt at all levels and feed from my fingers.

wrasse wrote:known glanidium species were not from that location.

That's the key word. It may well be an unknown/undescribed Glanidium species.

Nevertheless, the species that comes to mind first wrt behaviour & looks (not pattern!) is intermedia imho and certainly not dunni.
And of course the elongated upper caudal lobe in males is a feature that can be seen in other Tatia as well.

My two specimens of the elongated fish are very shy. I've not seen them eat yet but they must be eating when it is dark because I can see rotund bellies on them. So mine are acting differently to wrasse's so I don't think behaviour is informative for ID purposes here.

In terms of identifying them as Glanidium please do not be misled by the image in the clog that is identified as Glanidium sp 1. Other described Glanidium species are not as elongated as that fish and the elongation is not an identifying character. The difference between Tatia and Glanidium is osteological (some bones on the cranium/cheek) and internal (the anal fin support structures). I think the fish captioned as Glanidium sp 1 is a Tatia.

In terms of size of known dunni, the revision of Tatia list specimens 10cm SL (the size of my female) so I don't think size is helpful here.

The things that are putting me off definitely thinking they are adult dunni (as Luisa states they are) is the pattern, but that is known to be variable on dunni and some other Tatia. The jury is out for me.

I can't find anything on a river named Piamotes or Paimotes?

Incidentally, G. sp(1) is, I think, this elongate species. So, would be happy to replace that pic with new ones of this fish......

Jools

The.Dark.One wrote:I can't find anything on a river named Piamotes or Paimotes?

No, I couldn't find it either. I heard Ingo asking Neil about it and what river did it flow in to... we don't know yet...

Jools wrote:Incidentally, G. sp(1) is, I think, this elongate species

It's that image that influenced me... I reckon its the same fish, a male.

My greedy female

Jools wrote:Incidentally, G. sp(1) is, I think, this elongate species. So, would be happy to replace that pic with new ones of this fish......

Slightly off, but I don't think the copyright of the "PC picture" is correct (see page 90 of this thread; top half of page)?

Try Piamontes.

I have asked the Exporter for some catch location details .. so at least we know where they are definatley from.

The only sensible location for Piamontes I could find was in Colombia. It is here. Given the map below this is within range for . That said, it's still a big leap.

sojapat wrote:I have asked the Exporter for some catch location details .. so at least we know where they are definatley from.

What would be great would be a red dot on this map:

, source: A systematic revision of Tatia (Siluriformes: Auchenipteridae: Centromochlinae).

Cheers,

Jools

Hi I got an answer ,They are from a small tributary that feeds the Rio Nanay..Peru ..Piam is not a reference to a river as first thought .

Hi Neil

My work PC wouldn't let me do a red dot for some reason but I think that places the dot (in grey on the image) inbetween the solid dot and the open dot. I have put a circle around all three.

Smack bang in the distribution for T. dunni.

This map is great info .

Hi. This is a follow-up to my October post.
On October 24, 2011, I posted that I had heard from a contact in the trade that he might have some driftwood catfish coming available at the end of the month. At the end of October he told me he had access to the following species:

Tatia brunnea is available ... Also available are the following:
NOVIA MADERA / WOOD (Helogenes sp.)
NOVIA PIJUAYO (Liosomadoras morrovi)
NOVIA TATIA (Tatia intermedia)
NOVIA TIJERA / SCISSOR (Tatia aulopygia)

Note the spelling of L. morrowi as "morrovi."

Using the guide on page 12 of this thread, the local names above become:
Tatia brunnea
Helogenes marmoratus (not an Auchenipterid)
Liosomadoras oncinus
Tatia aulopygia
Trachelyopterus galeatus

The T. brunnea was the only species that interested me but they turned out to be T. perugiae [Centromochlus perugiae], instead.

So, I did not get any of those woodcats in the end ("Which Auchenipterids are NOT being kept by PC members?" *lol*) but I'm posting all of this anyway because I think it's interesting that a number of auchenipterid species have become available in my area of the US where none had been available just a short time before. Despite years of scouring the local shops and driving two and half hours in different directions, the only woodcats seen in a shop were two C. perugiae about nine months ago. They were not labeled correctly but I recognized them.

Now here's some good news. About three weeks ago a friend and I traveled two hours away and found some very familiar-looking catfish labeled as "Mystus." When I asked the guy, he got out his list and said they had come in as "Mystus" species but there was also a note saying "zamora." He had no idea what zamora meant but I had an inkling. Using my friend's Blackberry we got onto PC and looked up Zamora woodcats and sure enough, the species in the dealer's tank was Auchenipterichthys coracoideus. Now I know which auchenipterid I'll be getting and where to get them.

Ha, at last a woodcat for you! You've certainly deserved them after such a long wait .
But why didn't you buy them straight away? Now you'll have to drive those 4 hours again.

Marc van Arc wrote:Ha, at last a woodcat for you! You've certainly deserved them after such a long wait . But why didn't you buy them straight away?

Yes, indeed, why didn't I buy them? But you see I couldn't. I simply didn't have a place for them in one of my already operating tanks. Even though the specimens in the shop were only about two thirds of their final size (4.3" according to the cat-elog) they were very chubby and fit looking. My tanks contain many species of very small fish - tiny cyprinids, danios, tetras, livebearers, even tiny catfish - it would be only a matter of time before the populations were decimated. Also, I've got each tank the way I want it with compatible fish in "communities" that work.

So, the woodcats are getting their own dedicated tank which is in the process of setting up.

Now you'll have to drive those 4 hours again.

We enjoyed it.

Well, as long as you can keep driving I understand that you like it. Over here a 4 hour "drive" may be the equivalent of doing 100 kms and "enjoying" all the traffic jams - that's why I'm not very fond of it.

Anyway, looking forward to some pictures once you have them. And if you like you could change your signature to: "Got woodcats. Finally!".

I've had 2 Boctia
I've had 5 Gulpers soon to have 3 more
(Note these guys passed some years ago)

I have 5 Jaguars
I have 12 False Jaguars
I have 5 Hybrid Jag/False (They just kinda appeared didn't even notice eggs / fry till a few 1 inch fries were found hiding in drift wood)

I think quite a few of us would be interested in what happend in greater detail

I don't think I am well schooled in these fish, but as far as I know, the jaquars have never been bred in tanks before

Bas Pels wrote:I think quite a few of us would be interested in what happend in greater detail

Yes, please provide some pictures of the fry and some information on them

Very little info, but last time i spoke to staff at Neil Hardy, they said they used to (years ago)buy in Jaguars (Oncinus) from a guy who bred them in the UK. They indicated it was a long time ago though.

I've seen Oncinus offered for sale at 1" but do not know if these were wild caught, commercially bred or what - this would have been late 90's or early 00's.

I'm also incredibly interested in hearing about the fry and why you believe they are hybrids between the 2 species

(This was in my 420g)I'm not sure how or when it started happening, I was away hunting for 2 months (while I was gone they were only feed meaty items g/fs choice ie shrimp worms crays) when I got home I didn't notice them at first but after a major cleaning I noticed that in a few buckets were some frys some swimming; some dead. Kept the live guys and added them into my Shrimp tank where they remand till they were just over a inch then I added them back into the tank but I only have 1 survivor I had a bit of a Ick outbreak in tank and lost a few of them. I think its a Hybrid as it Mostly looks like a False jag but has alot more of colour spots then the rest.

First shot of the newest arrival from OF, Ageneiosus sp 3 "green stripe".
I've got two specimens and hopefully it'll be a pair. Will try to make some better shots once they've settled in.
Alex, thanks very much for picking them up!

These are some nice fish, I saw them in real life at Glaser.

Bijn wrote:These are some nice fish, I saw them in real life at Glaser.

That's cool, but I prefer seeing them at home

Nice, Marc!

I am happy to announce I am (thanks to Alex) the proud keeper of 2/1Centromochlus strigata.
They are in their new home for 2 hours now and have already mated.

raunchy little fish!

btw, OF also had them on the list as Centromochlus strigata, but according to the catelog, it's Tatia strigata......

don't ask me why; todays' taxonomy is so much in flux I can't keep up.