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On topic pls, brethren Doyle

You are right of course Marc... he's really bad for doing that
I'm sure Steve and I will post pics of the new woodcats asap... Neil also might help with that

Lovely, looking forward to them.
But as you reacted so seriously, I'd like to say that the above was intended as a joke.

Marc van Arc wrote:On topic pls, brethren Doyle

Marc van Arc wrote:Seriously, if they are 10-12 cms and they are able to sex them, I'd like to give them another try. So pls fill me in on any news, either by phone or by mail.

Just found out they are way too expensive, so that's going to be a no go...

Thanks Arjan for your time to find things out.

There is a small group of very young Tatia intermedia wildcoughts in my tank.
The group will be expanded next week, so that I have a total of 6 or 7 individuals of 3cm max.
Later on when the are sexable the group will be reduced to 1male /3 females when I'm lucky ofcourse .

They are a few weeks in the tank now and was seeing them swimming in the dark for the first time today, without feeding them.
The days before I didnt see them swimming when the the lights where out without feeding.

They swim like crazy when feeding , even with the lights are on and during feeding they're trying to push away Brochis splendens that are twice there size.

Hi,Its hard to show the good looks of fishes when you lot bought all the best ones .
I tried to take a photo of Mr Wrasses fish but it was rushed .
The best of the male fishes are with Richard ,Steve and Ingo .
Here goes. The pic of the male is crappy ,and this is Richards female.


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Uploaded with ImageShack.us

That female pic is great!

Mine female was bigger so not as well coloured or patterned as that one but still very nice:



The male (20cm TL!):




These are very similar to T. dunni.

Wich Tatia is on these pics ?

Phyllonemus wrote:Which Tatia is on these pics ?

That's still unknown Riny, it's a yet undescribed species afaik.

Very nice species btw!

@ Steve: hope they are not as elusive as T. dunni

@ Neil: what name (if any) were they listed as?

I've just heard back from Luisa Sarmento-Soares (co-revisor of Tatia). She thinks they are fully grown Tatia dunni. She is basing it on colour, pattern, and the shape of the anal fin in the male.

They seem quite shy but towards each other they show aggression by jaw locking each other. Something unusual in most auchenipterids.

Marc van Arc wrote:

Phyllonemus wrote:Which Tatia is on these pics ?

That's still unknown Riny, it's a yet undescribed species afaik.

Very nice species btw!

Thanks Marc, it's a very nice specie indeed.

The.Dark.One wrote:I've just heard back from Luisa Sarmento-Soares (co-revisor of Tatia). She thinks they are fully grown Tatia dunni. She is basing it on colour, pattern, and the shape of the anal fin in the male.

Of course Mrs. Sarmento is an authority, yet I'm surprised she determines on the above mentioned 3 features. That does not seem very scientific imho.
What strikes me most is: what happened to the protruding lower jaw? Your large specimens do not seem to have it, or is it less visible in the pictures?

Hi Marc

I must admit that when I first saw them my first reaction was that they were dunni. The cranial morphology is also the same. However, perhaps time will tell. I have some small dunni so lets see what they grow up to.

This is a close up of the head of the male:


Female:

Does the revision show a size of the T. dunni? The Cat-eLog says 120mm, but from what I can tell, your fish is a fair bit larger than that... [I'm trying to understand if we should update the max size of the T. dunni entry based on the revision...]

--
Mats

I would be very cautious indeed about linking these fish with Tatia dunni. T. dunno perhaps. But they're in the catelog at present as Glanidium.

Jools

The male is 15cm TL. According to Luisa T. dunni are known at this size, although the specimens are not used in her revision. I'm not 100% convinced they are dunni, though I am leaning towards that at the moment. According to Luisa they are not a Glanidium. The thing that is putting me off thinking they are definitely dunni is the markings. In dunni the elongated blotches on the body are pale, whereas on these they are black. In the revision, it says:

Color variation. Tatia dunni usually has faint irregular bands and spots over body. Some T. dunni, from the Peruvian Amazon, have a dark brown body and mottled anal fin (INHS 43890). Large specimens from the Purus river, in central Amazonia, usually have a completely dark body (INPA 17182)or a lightly spotted coloration (INPA 17184).

If they are spawned then we will see what the youngsters look like, and this will help.

Compare the cranial morphology of young male dunni:
http://www.scotcat.com/thedarkone/auche ... dunni4.jpg

And males of this fish:

Have to say, that is a very convincing comparison Steve.

Its the extreme elongation of the males of these fish and the longer upper caudal, as well as the colour and pattern, that I suppose throws doubts for me.

As an aside, I'm finding these fish have adjusted to tank life beautifully!

wrasse wrote:Have to say, that is a very convincing comparison Steve.

Its the extreme elongation of the males of these fish and the longer upper caudal, as well as the colour and pattern, that I suppose throws doubts for me.

As an aside, I'm finding these fish have adjusted to tank life beautifully!

Yes, the cranial morphology is very similar although there are some slight differences.

The caudal lobe doesn't mean much to me but the elongated body does perhaps signify something, as well as the dark markings. I'm going to take some pics of my dunni again and see what they look like now (although they are still quite small).

Mine seem to have settled although not seen them eating yet.

It has been over a month since I had the "jaguar fight." The loser still looks rough, but I am confident s/he will make it. That said, s/he has not eaten in at least a month. I keep trying both frozen bloodworms and live earthworms without success. Suggestions?
-Shane

Shane wrote:Suggestions?

water change and raise temp into the 80s. Only offer small live earthworms.

Well, it will be fun multi-threading. So, @Steve, have you got another similar species of Taria thr shows a different cranial morphology?

@Shane, are they still in the same tank?

Cheers

Jools

Jools wrote: @Steve, have you got another similar species of Taria thr shows a different cranial morphology?
Cheers

Jools

Hi Jools. What do you mean?

Best Regards
TDO

Water changes have been to the order of 30-40% every three days since I moved it to the hospital tank a month ago. I am not keen to put the two fish together again after all I did to keep the loser alive after their last fight. That of course puts me in a second dilemma as I am currently dedicating 50 gallons (between two tanks) to just these two fish.
I'll try raising the temp as suggested and keep trying small earthworms.
-Shane

Couple of quick shots from tonight in Jools fishroom

Blimey, it's snail city!

Blimey, it's snail city!

He needs the calcium. His wonderful Scottish water will dissolve a snail shell in a matter of months if not weeks.
-Shane

Just a few shots of these cats. Note the greeny-gold colour and dash-dash pattern.



They are feisty when the food goes in!





They have settled well and are quite greedy!



Richard

Richard, great pics !
Wich Tatia specie is this ?

Great shots and very remarkable as well. To me an important reason that this is not dunni. At least, not the dunni I know: elusive, as good as invisible.
(In-)visibility is surely no valid field for determination, yet I'd like to know from people who keep dunni: have you ever seen them behave as the ones in Richard's pictures?