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Janne wrote:You see, I told you they will breed again and than again ;) Can you provide me with the correct water parameters... everything, and I will try to explain for you why the eggs leakage and or are to early hatched. I have had that problem a few times too and it's always the water (me to lacy not keeping the water on top).

Janne

That would be super. I will do some measurements of ph, conductivity, gh and nitrate, but I will have to find me equipment first. I rarely do tests.

Today I am down to around 60 frys as I removed all the ones with visible problems. I left a single pair of siamese twins. They are much smaller than the other ones and seem to be joined in the abdominal area. If possible I will raise them.

Haavard wrote:I left a single pair of siamese twins. They are much smaller than the other ones and seem to be joined in the abdominal area. If possible I will raise them.

It happens sometimes but is quite uncommon, I head one fry with 2 heads (4 eyes and 2 mouths) that survived for a couple of months maybe reached 2,5-3 cm before it died.

Janne

Janne wrote:

Haavard wrote:I left a single pair of siamese twins. They are much smaller than the other ones and seem to be joined in the abdominal area. If possible I will raise them.

It happens sometimes but is quite uncommon, I head one fry with 2 heads (4 eyes and 2 mouths) that survived for a couple of months maybe reached 2,5-3 cm before it died.

Janne

please show us some pictures! i've never seen a siamese pleco before. i remember when i was 12 i had a baby guppy which had 3 eyes and 2 tails! then it died after a few weeks

It died shortly after I last posted, so I have no pictures. The rest are doing fine.

Today I counted 55 as I moved them to the raising tank:

Fantastic! Great job, Haavard!

That is a really cool pic! Congrats

Haavard Stoere wrote:Today I counted 55 as I moved them to the raising tank:

pic of the thread!!!

DJ-don wrote:pic of the thread!!!

It may be right now, but I would guess that pic-of-the-thread will be when there are a whole bunch of these guys feeding in a grow-out tank.

Haavard: Great work in keeping the water/fish in good condition and getting the spawn.

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Mats

MatsP wrote:

DJ-don wrote:pic of the thread!!!

It may be right now, but I would guess that pic-of-the-thread will be when there are a whole bunch of these guys feeding in a grow-out tank.

Haavard: Great work in keeping the water/fish in good condition and getting the spawn.

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Mats

well i should have said so far then but you know what i mean ;)

DJ-don wrote:well i should have said so far then but you know what i mean ;)

Of course I do! ;)

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Mats

Hi Haavard

To say congratulations would be an understatement! Truly amazing what you have accomplished.

Are you willing to have some of your juveniles shipped to California someday?? I would be interested if so.

Mark

Fantastic achievement, and WOW those are what you call macro photo's!!

The catelog needs updating though as the images of the eggs and the fry are there and for breeding it says no reports.

Haavard, don't forget to document the spines on the fry under the development... it would be nice if all these fry show exactly the same as the first fry, then we maybe have a new genus ;)

Janne

Janne wrote:Haavard, don't forget to document the spines on the fry under the development... it would be nice if all these fry show exactly the same as the first fry, then we maybe have a new genus ;)

Janne

This fish is pretty clearly a new genus from the adult already, from what I've been told. Not that this ontogenetic trait is not interesting as well.

Milton wrote:Not that this ontogenetic trait is not interesting as well.

I have bred quite many genus within Loricariidae and have never seen this before, I agree it's quite obvious anyway at adult size they belong to a new genus and if they do and will be described... use some of Haavards pic in the description ;)

Wouldn't be nice describing a new species and have the whole development from fry to adult?... probably the first time ever in this family anyway.

Janne

Now that I look at it, my use of double negatives is probably confusing. I think those spines are quite interesting!

The only other description I can think of that talks about captive breeding is the one describing the Celestial Pearl Danio (Celestichthys margaritatus, now Danio margaritatus), and there were not pictures of its development.

Of course, most scientists, as they mainly work with preserved specimens, will have a hard time describing any breeding behaviour or fry development. In personal discussions with various scientists, they are quite impressed with our knowledge of the fishes behaviour, both "normal" and "breeding" - for example, Mark Sabaj didn't know that multiple females may spawn with a single male in Loricariidae.

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Mats

The behavior of a fish is likely to be just as fascinating, if not more so, than its phyical properties.

MarkSmith wrote:The behavior of a fish is likely to be just as fascinating, if not more so, than its phyical properties.

I don't disagree with that - it's just that the typical scientist that works with describing new species, etc, are often restricted in when they can get round to actually describing the fish - it can take years from the finding a "new species" until it is actually described. And as we are all aware of, without a lot of experience and large number of tanks, it's quite difficult to keep some of our fishes in a tank in captivity - that is assuming you can even get them out of the country in live form in the first place. So I can see why it's much easier to keep them in 70% ethanol than to keep them alive in water.

They get to see the live fish when it's getting caught in the wild (if they are lucky enough to get to go on the collecting trip), and then they may see it in preserved form some years later.

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Mats

Very true.

It is quite interesting to see firsthand, or read, accounts describing fish behavior in situ, and to learn about their behaviors as they are witnessed. Of course, we do as hobbyists, get to see some of these behaviors in our aquariums, especially if we are observant. It is just another facet/dimension about the natural world, and truly adds to our enjoyment of it.

Thank you for sharing such a neat project.Your fish keeping skills are very impressive.I just ordered 8 large adults.This will be my third attempt at actually getting L082's.The first two times i received L201 and LDA33.This importer promised me these are the real deal.We will find out on Monday.This information will help me greatly when i finally get some,TY.

Hi Haavard

Might you have any updated information for us on the status of the juvenile L82s?

Thanks in advance!

Hi Haavard:

I hope we are not being too nosy, but might you have any updated information for us on the status of your captive raised L82s?

Thanks once again!

It's so sad Haavard won't answer anymore..
He was my hero!!

brechtvh, why won't he answer any more? Is there any news about/from him?
There is another topic about his sudden disappearance. But unfortunatly (or fortunatly "No news is good news") no info about him:(

PS: He was my hero too!

For all of you who miss håvard and wonder where he's been and what he will do, I have the following message from him: he has a great time and he just send around 100 L-82 to a farming outside Norway, and he carries on like never before but think it was just too much for him too much mails and everything so he pulled back a little. But I hold on and try and get him active again