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Bijn wrote:Do you know where these undiscribed Trachelyopterus originate from?

Not 100% sure, but I believe they originated from Argentina.
That's probably why I skipped the (second) Ruinemans shipment of Trachelyopterus galeatus from Argentina, although these turned out to be a different species - you can tell!

Are you talking about Trachelyopterus sp(3) or the other Trachelyopterus sp (not in Clog) and how big are they?

Could be a nice addition to my second subtropical tank.

The.Dark.One wrote:

Marc van Arc wrote: -I'm in doubt wrt the

Trachelyopterus fisheri

pair

I would like the above two species but getting them to me might be a problem?

Hi Steve,

Alas, the same thing that prevented me from getting the Spinipterus to you (while still alive!), will also prevent this to happen. I would actually be very pleased for you to have them, but I'm not going to ship.

If it's any consolation to you, I think I'll keep the fisheri over here after all. It may be too much to bid all woodcats farewell at the same time and I like these best of all my mottled brown "woodies".

Bijn wrote:Are you talking about Trachelyopterus sp(3) or the other Trachelyopterus sp (not in Clog) and how big are they?

Could be a nice addition to my second subtropical tank.

The not in Clog species. Have a look at , add an adipose and there you have it. Also wrt size.

How do they behave? Are they like mini-galeatus or are they less boisterous.

Actually they are a bit timid, but at the same time easily capable of staying perfectly healthy in my setting.

No problems Marc, I understand.

I'm in dubio. They would be a nice addition to my aquarium but they also look a lot like my galeatus. Shouldn't I wait till I find a species that is more different? Or do they behave different? More free-swimming like the fisheri?

Bijn wrote: Shouldn't I wait till I find a species that is more different? Or do they behave different? More free-swimming like the fisheri?

That's something I can't decide for you....
And to answer your second question: they are less visible than T. galeatus.

Wrt fisheri: mine are also less visible since female 2 went away. For some reason they seem to know something has changed.

If they are shy mini-galeatus I'll skip them. Space is limited here, I have to choose wisely.

Here is the male fishere very active, the female only moves when she's "attacked" by a snail.
I hope you keep them but if you don't...

here's an idea: I don't know what species you both have, but you might "pool" them together, so you both end up with less species per hobbyist, but in larger groups

this has several advantages:
-more chance of breeding them
-better for the fish, more interaction between speciesmembers
-a tank with less species, but species in groups is much nicer to watch than a "collection tank"
-the tankfurniture and maintenance can be aimed better at specific needs when you have few species
-higher visibility!

Well said, Alex.

--
Mats

MatsP wrote:Well said, Alex.

--
Mats

Totally agree

That could have worked as we do have species in common, but my galeatus are already gone and my single T. intermedia goes to Kruseman.
On a previous occasion Bijn had already told me he was not interested in more galeatus (he has 5 atm) and that was the reason they ended up in a LFS (where they found a good home within 2 days).
The only species that remains is T. fisheri and if I'm going to say goodbye to them, they will most likely go to Bijn (as I understood from his last message he was interested). I think, however, that they are going to stay here.
Too bad shipping to England is a no go, for I'm sure Steve could have provided some of my woodies a very good home.

But if I understand correctly, I should keep all 5 flat heads instead of just 2.

sidguppy wrote:here's an idea: I don't know what species you both have, but you might "pool" them together, so you both end up with less species per hobbyist, but in larger groups

This isn't really relevant for the moment. I have 3 Species at the moment. From 2 (T. intermedia & T. galeatus) of them I have 5 individuals. Only my fisheri pair could use some extra "friends" but this is currently not possible.

But I do agree that fishes like this are best kept in groups.

Bijn wrote:But I do agree that fishes like this are best kept in groups.

I agree if you mean more than one individual. No doubt about that.
I'll add, however, that these groups do not have to be large. Groups of 3 to 5 will do perfectly fine in an aquarium setting.
Large groups may cause trouble. I remember that my T. intermedia (14 specimens) and T. gyrina (10 specimens) group were constantly fighting amongst each other, causing severe damage from time to time. A group of 9 A. coracoideus showed the same behaviour, although far less frequently.

Marc van Arc wrote:

Bijn wrote:But I do agree that fishes like this are best kept in groups.

I agree if you mean more than one individual. No doubt about that.
I'll add, however, that these groups do not have to be large. Groups of 3 to 5 will do perfectly fine in an aquarium setting.
Large groups may cause trouble. I remember that my T. intermedia (14 specimens) and T. gyrina (10 specimens) group were constantly fighting amongst each other, causing severe damage from time to time. A group of 9 A. coracoideus showed the same behaviour, although far less frequently.

I think 2 things are geting mixed up here:

1 for territorial fish each fish needs a certain territory. If a tank suits a group of 5, a group of 10 would require twice as much room

2 Assuming #1 is not a problem, a group of 10 would be better than a group of 5.

Firstly, a group of 5 will contain 2 males or 2 females. Some species are much more agressive towards the same sex, and we all know 2 is a bed number

Secondly, not all wild cought fishes are happy in a tank, and quite often some individuals adapt better than others - in the same species. If I happen to have only 1 fish in my group which is happy enough to breed - no breeding will occur. Therefore, the larger the group, the better the odds of breeding

But, # 2 only applies for a tank big enough for a large group.

A tank which only fits a mall group better contains such a small group

Bas Pels wrote:A tank which only fits a mall group better contains such a small group

That's the whole idea.
I'm not saying these large groups don't work in the wild (as I've never been there I would never say such a thing), but the groups were indeed too big for my tanks.

I do not agree with this on the Zamora Cats; they had to compete with at least 35 larger Auchenipterids in that set up, so all 9 had to fight for what was left of hiding places.

I think many of the scrapes were caused by other fiercer fish than Auchenipterichthys.

this is not an aggressieve species at all; but like most catfish it does need ample hiding space.

when there are such hiding places and no larger catfish in the tank it's not uncommon to see them sharing a cave, piling up on each other; something many other Auchenipterids do not.


i agree that in the much smaller second tank those groups of Tatia were too large; but there's 2 other issues at work here: it was a really small tank (about 1/6th of the showtank) and Tatia is much more territorial to species members than Zamora cats are.

I thought they had all died, but all of a sudden the Ageneiosus marmoratus which were mentioned some pages back popped up in a Dutch shop.
I currently don't know whether they are marmoratus or polystictus, nor anything about price and numbers, but I hope to hear from that shop soon.
Surprise: I am not going to buy any as they would not fit into my new set up.

In the light of things said at the top of this page, I decided that the fisheris will go to Bijn, so they can join his couple and form a small group of 4.
I also decided NOT to split the flatheads (T. sp 3), but to keep all 5 of them.

Alex said he knows someone with a group of Lios and hopefully my female can join that lot.

These changes should have taken place before the beginning of November.

To anyone interested:
Utaka fish shop Amersfoort has 3 , gender (yet) unknown, 15-18 cms, 59,95 euro per fish.

I've put this here because I'd like the catfish lovers to have a head start as opposed to the regular fish keepers or even the monster fish keepers -)

Update

Marc van Arc wrote:Due to a further down size of auchenipterids, available around last week of October:

-

Trachelyopterus sp(3)

No longer available; will keep all 5 myself

-Trachelyopterus sp.
No longer available (Bijn)

-

Liosomadoras oncinus

No longer available (friend of Bijn)

The fishes from the small tank (

Spinipterus asci

,

Tatia intermedia

&

Tatia dunni

) have already found a new home (Kruseman).

Trachelyopterus fisheri

No longer available (Bijn)

Hemiloricaria melini

, 1 male/3 females
No longer available (Utaka FS)

Marc van Arc wrote:To anyone interested:
Utaka fish shop Amersfoort has 3

Ageneiosus marmoratus

, gender (yet) unknown, 15-18 cms, 59,95 euro per fish.

I've put this here because I'd like the catfish lovers to have a head start as opposed to the regular fish keepers or even the monster fish keepers -)

Good to mention this, Marc.

These fish should find a good house with a responsible owner.

Taken this night.

After almost 2.5 weeks, I'm happy to say that the 3 new Ageneiosus cf atronasus are doing fine.
They currently live in the guppy breeder/Q-tank and enjoy lots of juvenile live bearers.
In due course they will go to the large tank, but given their size the 25th of October (large tank overhaul) will be too soon.

My remaining auchenipterids and characins are going to enjoy the company of a group of Guianacara owroewefi.

The Ageneiosus cf. atronasus is a beautiful fish. Glad to hear that your group is doing fine!

Thanks.

Marc van Arc wrote:After almost 2.5 weeks, I'm happy to say that the 3 new Ageneiosus cf atronasus are doing fine.

After 4 weeks I'm quite unhappy to say that one has died...
Cause unknown; the only thing I found was a skull. One other specimen I saw today seemed in perfect shape.

First 2 or something similar, then some .