PlanetCatfish.com

They're just small growths of skin. Not necessarily to do with sexual dimorphism (have you checked out our glossary? ) but they are in many cyprinids such as the minnows mentioned and indeed the good old common goldfish.

Jools

Further to what Jools said, it's quite well known that these fish are not overly social, and do not "need" companions of either sex. And keeping exactly a pair is unlikely to be a good solution. I would suggest keeping 3-4, if you have the space to do so - but do that once you have had your new tank set up and working for some time (several weeks at least)...

--
Mats

Given how long this Syno has lived without seeing another Syno, I would not add another Syno. Bunch of congo tetras for the 55gal - who's with me?

Jools

Jools wrote:Given how long this Syno has lived without seeing another Syno, I would not add another Syno. Bunch of congo tetras for the 55gal - who's with me?

Jools

I think that's a good plan...

--
Mats

Hello Everyone,

This post has some length to it (sorry). There are a few photos, some questions/concerns and things I've wanted to share with those who've been reading along and helping over the last couple weeks as we endeavor to build a new life for Nui & Li'i. Thank you for putting up with us.

• I had been planning on posting this much earlier today...

In regards the upload of the photo of Nui today with a concern that he might have ich. Now that I know of them, I can see where they are. BTW, there will likely be some redundancy as I wrote some of this earlier as well. Please just skip and excuse it (thanks). In some of them you can see how his skin looks to my naked eye. His skin has a lot of texture and color variation to it anyway and I’ve noticed the species in general do have some texture to their skin... especially where various areas/body parts meet others. But Nui’s is perhaps a little more pronounced or even lifted or raised a little more than I've seen in other photos. Likely due to his history. Here goes...

Since Mats posted that close-up image of a Syno's (his I think maybe?) mouth so I could see their teeth a few days ago, I’ve been wanting to see Nui’s teeth. But I've had trouble just peering through the glass, it hasn't been real easy to capture them on film either. Finally one came out that exhibits them beautifully. At least to me...
Just look at those bottom teeth! I had no idea... He must love me as when he nibbled my finger I only felt something there wasn't "all flesh"! I think it's interesting, they're not only many close together (I think that's what Mats told me the word "synodontis" means) but they're in rows. Like shark teeth!He could have shredded my thumb.

It feels good to see his body filling out now... even with a half-diet & sometimes less, he looks better... I wish I’d taken a shot like this of him when we first got him
His eyes look so cool here. It came out this way because he was looking up...

This one shows the possible ick again. But something else has come to my attention while reading in the archives. It was under a search “Euptera”... I found a thread discussing the Euptera’s owner’s concern over what I think he called “curling gills”. If I recall right it was Mats’ or Naturalart’s response that told him that if it were this condition, it could have come from poor water conditions the Euptera had evidently been through.
Thru the weeks I've found in the archives that there are several other Euptera (and I’m sure all species) who have suffered similar conditions that Nui and Li'i have suffered. All coming from similarly abusive situations... maybe not as drastic as Nui & Li’i’s experience but definitely as tragic.

There's a three image limit per post. I have a couple others to share with you... next

Okay, Hi Again... here we go!

This is Nui’s half of the lava rock... his hiding place. I couldn't figure out how to make him a cave in this tank. I'm sharing it because you can see how great his barbles are growing, branching out more and lengthening. I wonder why they're growing now though. Because his diet has improved I guess. You can also see his teeth and gills here.
This image was taken during the day with a flash, sorry for the blur. But I’ve posted it because it exhibits the color variation of his skin.
I’ve uploaded these photos with hopes of response from the impressive collective of expertise (naturally) in regards to a couple things I’ve pointed out. And I’d love to find out how he compares to other Euptera who’ve been raised with love, mindfulness and their health as a priority. I’ve asked myself ‘why I want to know about this.

It simply comes down to general curiosity as well as a strong sense of need to find out as much as I can, about his condition and just "Him" for himself. He can only share so much with me... like “I want to eat”. “Now!!!” & “Leave me ALONE!” & “YIKES, That was Scary” & “Oooo” or “Yum!” “I like that”. But not...”I have this problem here and if you’ll just do this it will heal” or “Stop mollycoddling me! I’m just fine”.

I truly have a googolplex of respect and appreciation for you who’ve been here to help us move along this path of rescue. I know it’s the poorest rescue you’ve ever seen. I feel so bad and embarrassed it’s taken/taking me so long. So completely embarrased that there’s difficulty returning knowing I’ve encouraged some expectation. And I know that everyone here wants badly to see Nui (& Li’i) relieved of all suffering. Sooo especially after what they’ve already been through I have reasons, but don’t feel they belong here. I just ask that you know that I’m truly going as quickly as is possible. I hate that it’s taken me this long and of course feel horrible about it.

While I can’t put him in the big tank yet, I try to spend some good quality time with him every day and night. I do it because he seems such a responsive being. I must be pretty entertaiing at times, I can be quite creative. Like, he likes it when I swiffer the floors at night... He begins to swim when I do going up and down and around that small tank as tho’ there’s a beautiful pristine stream/river/pond the size of an ocean in his mind. I think, he thinks I’m swimming, I do a slow graceful turns and circles, making a dance of it for him. We swim together... when everyone else is settled down for the night. Or just let him rub against the glass with my hand to it and he likes to come nose to nose. There’s also little Li’i... I don’t speak of her much here as this is a place for him. But I share my time with them... have to. They take notice when I’m interacting with the other. She’s not a personable... but she is a highly intelligent little one. She no longer pulls the algae wafers to and into her cave. She share with him, or rather he takes over. They share one for breakfast every day now. She’s like a dog or cat, standing on her fins facing me and just waiting for it.

Dear all, this is a crazy world of fish you have. I’m completely taken with it and so thankful to have been the one to have found these two survivors So thankful, so glad we found PlanetCatfish to help us as I don’t think we would have made it. I say this in all serioness, not as an embellishment of gratitude. When I arrived here, Nui and LI’i’s little bodies were shrunken to e bone with concaved stomachs, so depressed. Nui’s with a couple small folds of flesh in the area as well. We had no kits to test their water and when they came their numbers were bad. Not even as bad as they had been but highly toxic – poison. Nitites Ammonia Nitrates all so high, pH so low. I was sheduled to change their water every three or four days. Everything pended my ignorance, intuitiveness and what little I could get read. But mainly by their breathing and physical movement or lack thereof. I was thinking remember worrying I was doing too many changes – aiming if possible to do change it only every 7 - 10 days. The woman I met at Petco (via telephone that terrible night) told me that when I got it right I’d only need to change their water once a month and that there could be even longer periods in-between. I call that night terrible because it was the first time their water was tested – when I was told by phone “the fish in that water are already dead” – that terrible horrible night. I couldn’t do a thing either, hands were tied. The Petco “free water test” and phone call were being facilitated by my neice on her by-weekly trip to the otherside She was also was picking up the vac-tube for me that night. That was our situation leading up to the google search that finally led us to PlanetCatfish.com.... searching under “supterus urgent help needed please” ='d http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=121

I know I've made you...

But you always give me



Thank you

Nui, Li’i & GF & Family

*our family includes husband & four cats

Okay you guys... (and all, Hi Gina),

I'm on my way out the door in a couple minutes. Hope you enjoy seeing this fish you've given so much of your time and heart to. We really appreciate it. Today the silicone comes. Last night my handyman came over to bring me the wood/plastic wedges for the stand. But then in troubleshot the stand and Oka wants me to pick up a large piece of marine plywood to secure the "yaw"???? Shouldn't take but some minutes tho'

It's Happening!!! i hope,
GF

BTW... I've been changing the water around midnight usually. Nui seems to like it though it isn't Li'i's time. But she has a nice dark cave to sleep in while we work and play. And last night PLAY he did!!! I took out maybe 50% of the water. And when I picked up his rock to put it back he swam under it and wouldn't stop it. Wouldn't let me set it down. He was tasting it and rubbing his belly on it. (and its pretty rough)... When I finally could set it down he started like playing in the water. I even have a shot of him partway out of the water kinda jumping over the middle area where the her tree meets his rock.

I let him play in this shallow water for over an hour. He played the entire time! Is this typical? It almost made me think he'd prefer shallow waters... I'm not thinking of it for him. But maybe its just something in his blood. Need to do this with him more often now. I wish I had a video... I do. Okay, I need to get it out.

Well Gahttah Bounce,
Have Good Days and Nights where ever in our wide world you are...
And Thank You....
GF

Hello Saturday PlanetCatfish.

We have the silicone to seal the tank. The store had sold out when I arrived, tho' I'd called ahead and asked for a hold. Thankfully, the employees were very kind and found a box of a household silicone safe for aquariums high up in the rafters. My husband had spent 45 minutes searching. Then I went in and spent over and hour looking behind other similar looking products etc... finally I asked for help and then they went through it all. And when we gave up one looked up in another area and saw the number!! It was a Godsend.

Didn't get home till 10 pm and had to work all day yesterday. I haven't been able to do much until today... I have a couple questions before doing it... hopefully someone is here that can let me know what to do...

1. There is an old whitish seal around the base sides that is has lifted on the sides only. Shall I remove it first to include it in the reseal?

2. When I look real close I've been able to discover very small think pieces of old silicone stuck, that i can peal out. Shall I pull it out from the seams? Should I make sure every little piece is taken off? The pieces are so small I hadn't even noticed when cleaning the glass there.

3. When reading under resealing in Tank Talk a few different products are listed. Acetone, alcohol and mineral spirits... I think. I have all on hand here at home. Which is best? And, then how best to clean it off after things are completed?

4. Re: moving Nui..."Critter Getters" was mentioned as a means to move and transition Nui to his new tan. I've been unable to identify what that is? I've seen them using plastic bags in the stores and at carnivals. We moved Nui up in a ziplock (gallon).

Thank you in advance to anyone helping with these questions.
GF

1. Any silicon that is a bit loose, remove it. If it pulls off, then remove it.

2. Remove within reason - you are not making a surface for an operating theatre at a hospital, but try as best as you can.

3. Acetone, as long as it's pure acetone and not nailpolish remover.

4. Using a plastic bag or a bucket will be fine. I don't know what a "Critter Getter" is, I think it's a trap that you can trap fish in.

--
Mats

MatsP wrote:1. Any silicon that is a bit loose, remove it. If it pulls off, then remove it.

2. Remove within reason - you are not making a surface for an operating theatre at a hospital, but try as best as you can.

3. Acetone, as long as it's pure acetone and not nailpolish remover.

4. Using a plastic bag or a bucket will be fine. I don't know what a "Critter Getter" is, I think it's a trap that you can trap fish in.

--
Mats

Thanks Mats,

I have nail polish remover... now that I think about it I can see why. It's really fumie. I have alcohol and also mineral spirits... will one of those do? If not we do have a little general store that tries to carry construction supplies and such. I'll call in the a.m.

I should get to the resealing tomorrow. I'm wondering about substrate? Haven't seen much on it. There are rather large river stone about 1" - 1.75" etc. This tank was for oscars. Will these do for Nui until I get better? Scott, is going to reinforce the stand tomorrow. We bought some marine plywood and had it cut to size (entire stand) which he'll screw on. Just wanting to avoid potential issues this tank and stand are showing. Wood around base is spliting and looks water rotted in areas. Plus the center support plank on the back is splitting from the screw down.

Question: is there a reason for aquarium stands having open backs? The ones I've looked at do. Even, like this one, with cupboards.

Thanks again,
GF

Hi,

When the API Master kit came in, I should have returned it and asked for a replacement because it was clear one of the bottles had leaked. Instead I cleaned it up and used it chalking it up for a loss because I needed it so badly. I can't run to the store and do these things... Well, now that I'm down the line here, I'm noticing that my Ammonia No. 2 bottle is lessening much further along than No. 1. I'm planning to order one tonight. I've come across the Seachem Ammonia Alert NH4 Aquarium Monitor (Test 1Year). Is this something I should get in place of a test?

I suppose while I'm on the topic of test kits, is there any other(s) that I should have on hand? Even if it's something used only now and then – if the need for it can be critical, I'd like to have it. Because as I said, I live in the sticks.

Thank you for your time,
GF

[quote=andywoolloo]Maybe he was truly sleeping upside down in peace all those times during the day and not near death. Sorry. I need to stop watching him apparently cause his upside down antics really truly make me mental. [/quote]

Andy... hello,

I found this post on a search. I found Nui floating or sleeping upside down yesterday morning when I woke at about 6 a.m. It was an extrememe moment to say the least. He responded as soon as he saw me and/or heard me. I did an immediate water change taking out a large vile of water first to test afterwards. Shifting out about 35% brounght out a good change. Nui responded well, showing signs of curiosity and put himself under the conditioned water as I returned it and swimming back and forth beneath it and putting his face straight into it. The nitrites went off up to near 25 and I think I know why.

While at Petco the night before I was replenishing the frozen brine shimp I give him for threats (just a pinch now and then). While at the freezer I saw bloodworms so I got them for him thinking they'd be healthier source of them. I didn't give him much, I switched to the freeze dried for his dinner. I knew that food waste would ruin the numbers but I didn't know fresh food would increase the nitrites? There could be another source, I had also given Li'i steamed zucchini that day. I removed both within a couple hours. Since then I have found the nitrites to go up a little each time. And I'm doing two water changes a day 60% - 75% for one and around 40% for the other. At least that's the last couple days.

Is sleeping upside down a sign of death? I so thought I'd lost him or was near it. I'm worried.

Thanks Andy if you have a mo to share what was happening and why your Euptera who was doing it. It does look like a comfort position. So does it when he props himself up the tree in the leaves and kinda hangs there. Is this norma? Have yours or have others' done or do this also?

Closing, time for me to do a water change, cook dinner, feed the cats and the ferals, etc etc etc.
Warm Regards on another cold night,
GF

PS: Speaking of cold nights... I don't have guard for the heater and Nui likes to rub the hot water bags so I continue with the bags. But I'm thinking I can make a guard out of bamboo which is plentiful. I found instructions for one out of pvc pipe which is expensive (for me) but bamboo's free and lovely. Would this be alright?

The reason stands are open at the back is to allow hoses and cables, etc to pass through the back up to the tank. It clearly doesn't have to be open everywhere - it's just how manufacturers make it, as that means the customer doesn't have to cut/drill holes to get stuff from bottom of cupboard to the tank. But as long as you have a reasonably big hole (5"+ in both directions), most things should be able to pass up to the tank itself.

Now, if your stand is in poor condition, I'd be careful to make sure it's OK to take the wight of the tank. A 55g tank weighs about 500 lbs. So it needs a good amount of strength to not bow [that would cause uneven pressure under the tank and possibly crack the bottom or separate sides from bottom] or collapse [with obvious consequences].

So make sure the stand is sturdy in all directions, and that none of the loaded surfaces can "bend". For a 55g tank, some 2 x 3 or 2 x 2 would probably be sufficient - strategically placed. Along with some plywood, that is.

--
Mats

MatsP wrote:The reason stands are open at the back is to allow hoses and cables, etc to pass through the back up to the tank. It clearly doesn't have to be open everywhere - it's just how manufacturers make it, as that means the customer doesn't have to cut/drill holes to get stuff from bottom of cupboard to the tank. But as long as you have a reasonably big hole (5"+ in both directions), most things should be able to pass up to the tank itself.

Now, if your stand is in poor condition, I'd be careful to make sure it's OK to take the wight of the tank. A 55g tank weighs about 500 lbs. So it needs a good amount of strength to not bow [that would cause uneven pressure under the tank and possibly crack the bottom or separate sides from bottom] or collapse [with obvious consequences].

So make sure the stand is sturdy in all directions, and that none of the loaded surfaces can "bend". For a 55g tank, some 2 x 3 or 2 x 2 would probably be sufficient - strategically placed. Along with some plywood, that is.

--
Mats

Mats (((smiles))), Thank you...

Okay got it, we'll put hole in the back on the side vs center I assume and make it at least 5" wide. Thanks thanks for the idea of using smaller wood pieces as supportive cross beam type things to shore up where necessary. Oh.... yes! The vision I have of a crashing tank with these angels in it has me looking for signs of potential disasters. Everywhere. When I get the tank off it tomorrow I'm going to give it a good bit of test to it with some pressure in obvious places.

Regarding hoses and cables... Cables are electrical power cords, is that right? And hoses would be air tubes, syphons and such? This brings me to another question... 'I have so many not knowing anything and not learning enough – so sorry' while speaking of hoses. How to fill a 55 gallon during water changes. Tomorrow we'll use the 5 gallons. I have two for the tanks only. Currently I'm running two gallon size pitchers back and forth from kitchen to parlor and six or seven becomes a little work out (for me that is). And running the 5 gallon to the lu or outsIde to empty with the old tank water isn't easy for me. Scott does it when I catch him but otherwise it's me. And it's difficult.

So – I saw a great hose set up for aquarium purposes on Amazon. Filling and syphoning I suppose. Is this how everyone does it with big tanks? I've been quite stressed wondering what I could do to alleviate some of the labor intensive process. Along these lines another concern arises in regards conditioning water. If I were to use water directly from the tap, how do you condition it on the way to the tank? Not possible is it? Unless the articles are true and the Aquasana or Brita filters really do remove 99% of the chlorine from the faucet water. How do you do it? I haven't found an article that explains this. This due to my thickness not the online information, I'm sure.

Further in these same regards is the natural process of conditioning the water... As an example in the thread I quoted above by andywoolloo and Euptera floating or sleeping upside down. Part of the discussion took place around conditioning water. One person was discussing the need to let the water dechlorinate on its own. I assume by letting it stand for 24 hours and I've seen this mentioned elsewhere, repeatedly. I know this would be best, well best would be rainwater as Jools suggested early on here. I still need to get this set up and a barrel for the catchment. How is this done for the large tanks?

Thanks all... Googols of Thanks Always,
GF

Cables = power cords for heater, lights, filters and other things that sit in or on top of or on the back of the tank. Hoses would be airline, but also if you have an external "canister" filter, that would need a drain and return hose to pump the water through the filter and back into the tank. So, to give you a decent chance of doing what you want/need, I'd suggest two holes of about 5" x 5" - not right at the edge, but perhaps 3-5 inches in from either side.



About getting the water ready for the tank:
I don't "age" or "mature" the water, and I know many people agree here and some disagree. I use a good quality dechlorinator (there are several "good" brands here. I use API Stress-Coat, but Seachem Prime and Tetra Aquasafe are other popular ones, and at least a dozen other products "do the job" - the key point here would be to find something that you can get without ordering from some company halfway across the world that charges three times the cost of the product in shipping. It's a good idea to find one that ALSO treats water that has Chloramine - most do, but it's worth reading the fine-print). Leaving the water, with an air-pump and air-stone keeping it from going stagnant, is not going to hurt, when doing several tanks with large changes, this becomes unpractical - I do about 600 liters (150 gallons) of water changes each week.

For filling the tank, I've got two different methods, depending on the source of the water.

Method one is to use a big bucket and a pump, along with a suitable size hose to reach the tanks. I also use a "builders bucket", which is approx 4 US gallon, to fill the big bucket. But my kitchen is literally 4-5 short steps from where I fill the big bucket.

Method two is to use reverse osmosis water, which is stored in the loft. This I fill using gravity through a long hose.

One trick that Jools gave in a thread called something like "tips and tricks", which is to get a U-bend-thingy for a washing machine waste-hose. Don't know if you can find them in the US, but here's a picture from a Screwfix, a company here in England that sell these for what comes to about $5 in US money.

(You only want the plastic "u-bendy" bit, not the actual hose - but I have yet to find a company that sells the U-bend bit on it's own [at a better price than the kit package above]).

You then fit the hose you are filling the tank with through the U-bendy bit. Like this: --
Mats

Is sleeping upside down a sign of death? I so thought I'd lost him or was near it. I'm worried.

Mine invert all the time, mostly at rest periods, they are often found in both right side up and upside down, i consider upside down euptera to be chilling so to speak, relaxing , kicking it.

not a worry.

Hi Everyone,

Still staying on track... little slower than expected as life happens. Scott was looking for a post I'd told him of here and logged me out accidently. When he tried to log back in he received a msg "...exceeded log ins..." (paraph'd). Gadz you need to be a cross Picasso/Asimov to break it.

We're doing the resealing tonight then it will be ready for a water test Wednesday night. Right now I'm trying to find out the best option for cleaning the silicone area – given what we have on hand. We've lots of: alcohol, vinegar and mineral spirits. I'm sure there's a thread here someplace.
No ne
The tank's level perfect and Nui has big eyes and dorsal for it. He spends his time nearest it now when I'm working on it as if he knows exactly what it's for. Him! And Jean (my cousin from Tahiti) went diving and brought Nui a huge rock for a cave. Have to figure out how to clean it well enough to use. There's lava in their tank now so I know there's a way. But the rock is big and guess what? It looks much like my fav center piece in Mats Tank No. 1! I didn't even tell Jean about it or show it to him. I did share that I'd like something bowed if possible so he could get under it, that's all. He brought back this other Krakatoa looking wonder. So excited for Nui. He also found a perfect coral for Li'i with a tunnel hole all the way through it. The coral we get on the beach here is very often old old old and sometimes pretty large. This one is. So I don't know if it will be alright even in the 55g. I haven't been able to get the concept across to him about pH and the corals.

I found out why my pH is spiking up there in the high. The estate's executor has had some new filtration put on the house system. I didn't know it could do that but my taps now gone from 7.0 to 7.6 I'm working very very hard at keeping the ammonia out of there. And here I thought it was my little abalone shell. I need to get a couple barrels soonest to set up a small catchment for them.

Did I mention the frozen bloodworms? I think so. Well I've had trouble with Ammonia levels ever
e. I've got the Nitrites out now at least 'knock on wood'. Last night, on my third water change fo r the day the idea came to mind that it could be my filter... media. I cleaned the sponge. I've been trying to wait thinking I'd have more bacteria to transfer on Thursday. But the well still smelled and there were worms in it. I pulled out the bio bag and it was really bad. At least I think it was bad... in my condition, it could be great! Now that I'm aware of that lack though, I at least try to offset the mistakes. In this case by bagging/sealing and refrigerating the bag. After photographing it so I can show you later to ask question. That way I'll be able to interpret/identify for myself.

I have some other questions that can wait. I would like to know where best to find threads discussing i behavior? I'd really really like to learn about this fish, what to expect, what he's doing, if he's okay. Like the other morning when I found him floating against the glass upside down!!!!! Freak. Or just chat with someone who has them, loves them... I've fallen in love with this Syno. BTW, I went ahead and put the heater in their tank today. I began thinking it just wasn't logical to think a heater set at 78° or even 85° would burn flesh! Maybe fish flesh...? Nui loves it. Spends much time by it. Li'i tried to suck and hang on it... didn't last. Was too warm for her tender mouth I'm sure. But their wise. If I'm wrong in this line of thinking please please correct me. Also I haven't immersed it completely afraid to put the dial under.

Thanks all for all you've shared and to those who may continue doing so...

GF

Smelly and worms indicate that you get food picked up by the filter. Try feeding a little bit less.

And the heater itself gets very warm, it can get "hot to the touch", and in my experience it's certainly capable of burning fishes. And it seems like fish can be a bit "dumb" at times. If it's a real worry, you can get a commercial heater-guard, or DIY.

DIY instructions: get a piece of plastic tubing, say 1.5" PVC or ABS water pipe (usually white). Drill two reasonable size holes (or a set of smaller holes, say 1/8"-1/4" or so if you have small fish that might find it a "good place to sneak in"), holes should be placed at the bottom and at the top. Plug the bottom of the pipe, and leave the top level or slightly above the water surface (with the upper hole(s) still below water surface).

--
Mats

GF, glad to hear you're still at it. A 'kritter gitter' or "kritter keeper" by Lees is a 'small' mobile clear plastic enclosure genrally used by small animal and/or herp (reptile/amphibian) folks here in the States. Similar to a breadbox in shape, there are various sizes. There is a fully louvered, fully detachable top with a smaller hatch in the center. This hatch is for putting ones hand in to secure the 'critter' to remove it from the enclosure without having to take the whole top off. There is also a swinging bar handle for carrying. You mentioned Petco, just ask someone in smallpets or reptiles to show you one. I'd be surprised if they don't have them. If all else fails, as mats said: a bucket will suffice.

Most of my synos sleep in odd directions, don't worry he'll break you in.

If you're filling from the faucet a "Python" is the way I go. Which is probably what you saw on Amazon. As long as you have a threaded tip on your faucet for the directional 'valve' it saves back breaking work and time. If you're filling from a 'rain-barrel' or some such, a good strong waterpump and vinyl tubing might fit the bill. And to drain from the aquarium: gravelvac on the inlet and let gravity feed it out to your favorite flower and grass beds. The plants will thank you.

I would strongly resist putting corals and shells in your tank. This animal comes from rivers and lakes in central Africa not the ocean. It flourishes in relatively soft water compared to a marine environment. I'd also check the substrate you have them in now. From the pics it looks like dolomite or some other calcium rich substrate. These types of substrates help to 'stiffen', harden, or some like to say 'buffer' your water. Again, not necessarily what you want for this cat. I would go with a basic neutral, round-pebbled, fine or coarse sand (not from the beach) in your new tank. Maybe you can put the 'well-wishes' and shells on the lower shelf and tell friends when you get your saltwater tank they will go in there. Just my 2 cents.

I do kind off agree with Jools: If this cats been by itself for most of its life, then it may very well not be interested in having a buddy of its own kind to live with. But theres also the personality of the fish involved to take into account. At any rate I would be very cautious with introducing another eup.

And another thought concerning Petco: I just found out they are having a sale on 40 gallon breeder tanks for $40.US. Thats a super deal. I don't know if this extends to Hawaii stores, but if your current tank doesnt work out, it wouldn't hurt in inquire. The only problem is the sale only last until Sat.1/15!

Doesn't Hawaii have a fish club?

googol lucks

naturalart wrote:I would strongly resist putting corals and shells in your tank. This animal comes from rivers and lakes in central Africa not the ocean.

I'd suggest this depends on the water used to refresh the tank. In my case, I have to add these things to even keep the pH around 7.0. This is indeed a riverine Syno in the wild, but I think it comes from a hatchery, not from Africa.

Jools

Good point and possibility Jools. If the water GF is putting into the tank is poorly buffered, say in the case of rainwater, then by all means buffer it however necessary. But, as far as tapwater goes, I recall her saying that her water system was causing her ph to rise.

Hatchery or not: so if we were sure Nui was a 'hatched' fish; wouldn't it be wise to err toward a softer water environment anyway, unless we know the particular parameters of the hatchery? I, for one, am not familiar with these commercial hatcheries. Are there some general parameters most of them have in common? Are most of them located in a particular area, in close proximity to one another? Jools if there's any of this type of knowledge you could expound on concerning these 'hatcheries', I and I think most syno owners would be most appreciative.

And another thought that flashed across my mind: Are there any recent studies of the longterm effects of 'hardwater' on 'softwater' fishes, or vice-versa? I vaugely remember reading some stuff long ago of how Angelfish 'stunted' when raised in hardwater. I know P. scalare is pretty flexible now.

Apologies if I'm going to far off thread.

It's interesting you know.. I've been doing some research about Nui.. I did not realize that Eupterus came from the same family as what we commonly know as upside-down catfish.. I mean it didn't occur to me.. so it would make complete sense that he would enjoy being upside down from time to time. Also, that they are a very hardy (no kidding!) fish.. and the thing that I found the most fascinating is that they tend to be loners (so I wouldn't add a friend to his new tank Goldenfeather) and that they can live for up to 20 years!.

Unfortunately, I won't be adding one to my 55 gallon as they don't seem to get on with cories very well, and I will never stop having cories since I'm totally smitten..

Looking forward to the next update!

Gina

ginagv wrote:Unfortunately, I won't be adding one to my 55 gallon as they don't seem to get on with cories very well, and I will never stop having cories since I'm totally smitten..

Clearly no one told my - they get along with (as in ignore) the corys in my big tank. Some synos may have problems getting along with corys, but I think most of them aren't bothered (tiny corys, such as newly hatched fry, would of course be seen as "snacks", but that is hardly unique to Synos - or Corys for that matter).

--
Mats

I don't remember where I read it.. I know it was not here.. but the Eupterus would not get on with the cories.. Now your decora may have a more tolerant nature..

Does anyone one else keep Eupetus and cories?..

Can you tell Im totally confused at this point about what I want to add to my 55?

Gina

I ve never had my eupteras with anything but themselves so I do not know. They do enjoy the common pl*co tho and he seems to enjoy them, except when they want some of his fruit and veg then it's a bit of a push and shove thing.

Hi All...

What a great surprise to find this thread moving forward. I'm so glad to have learned from everything you've shared. Naturalart, it's great you ask about hatcheries because I've been wondering this very thing. The reason is that Nui has become very very expectant of his half hour a nite in 5"/6" of water. When I take down the tank water down for a change. I lift his hidee rock like a floating island and he just rolls and rubs underneath it. He becomes an entirely different fish in this low water level environment. He swims all over on top and over everything he can and scoops across the glass at the surface to scoop up any remaining worms from his dinner. It is fascinating! So is my effort to take photos with my left hand while holding up the lid with my other and also the island for his pleasure swim.

It always brings to mind the idea that he wants to be in shallow river waters. Playing and hunting along the shoreline. ??? Maybe it's something like my furry cat who always paws off the top of her water bowl before drinking. Some left over dna embedded habit from her big cat days in ancient Africa at the local water hole where she'd have to remove debris from the day. So maybe like her, Nui's experiencing some DNA response? Unless he's actually from the wild. Evidently his owner traveled the world yearly collecting weird things. Maybe Nui was one of them?

All that happy stuff said, we sprang a leak. The bottom seal. I missed a spot that should have been obvious I think and I'm kicking myself in the butt tonight. We have a day to dry it out at least that area which I can manage with my blow dryer I think. And then another two days to wait for the dry time and then time for the filling and conditioning... argh. Also, I have the other bio bag I removed from the wormy filter in my fridge. I took a photo but haven't downloaded it yet to show you. I don't know if I should leave it as it is for the 55 or wash it in the old water? And will it be okay as it is in the fridge and sealed? I also have all the gravel I've removed this way. All of it unwashed, straight out of the tank and sealed up and chilled. Also I took a fall today and am a little bit slow because of it and am not even feeling like continuing this very arduous schedule. We're both Nui and I looking so forward to this 55. I will buy new from now on. Lesson learned.

Thanks for thinking about tanks, tank mates, and substrate etc. I don't know what I'd do without you all. As you know...

Yes... there's a great sale on tanks at Petco ($1 per gallon any size tank they have) and I'm kicking myself again for not picking one up. I'm not going out there but maybe I can get them to hold me one. I'd like to at least get a 20 for Li'i maybe. They had a problem today I think. She can evidently get pretty large herself. I think Nui scared her or possibly hurt her as she's been in her cave since this afternoon and she doesn't usually go to bed until around 9 pm. I'm sort of worried, I've seen her in there and she looks alright but something's happened? As he gets stronger and more secure he becomes more territorial. He's actually very bossy. He now decorates he own tank. Last nite I'd put Li'i's cave-tree back wrong and when I returned I found him going nuts trying to move it. He was butting it with the back end of his body. He does this now when he doesn't like something. Like the vac/tube which he now despises. And since I've had them the rock and tree go next to each other in the tank's center leaving space for him to swim around the sides. Nope! He didn't want it that way. When it came time for me to put it back the other night he positioned himself in the rocks place and wouldn't move. Not until I set it down when space for him to swim or hangout in between them. And then he was happy again. He's becoming old bossy thing.

This all bears weight on my mind as I try to think of putting him with other fish. Part of me believes he'd be very happy alone and then another part kinda feels he'd like some others with him. Things for him to observe, watch, play with maybe? But he and Li'i only played (it seemed) up till today? I like the plecs... I've been checking them out. Scott likes the Bristle Nose I like the ??? spotted one with pretty eyes. Well they all have dreamy eyes. I have to depend on all of you on this decision. They have several common plecs at Petco here and that's it. They advertise that these are small fish on the tank sign. Is this true? I hate to think of people buying fish and ending up not wanting them later on. I'll say something of it if it's not a small fish. Because most people here just think they can throw them in the streams. There are over 60 streams I cross on my way to the other side/store. So they're easy access for people and like kittens the unwanted fish get thrown out the car door. At least that's what I've heard.

Only saying "If"... if I were to want more or another fish, would I need to import fish? Is that a common thing and okay for the fish? If we do decide to get Nui a new tank mate I don't want to wait too long before I introduce them. Also, I don't know if I feel secure introducing a single baby into a tank with him? Is this a valid fear? If I don't intro something soon tho' I'm afraid he won't want anyone with him... could this happen? Except Li'i maybe. But after today, she might be happier alone without him.

I'm so glad to see you all back again. I'm glad to see Gina here and really appreciate your research. I need it... Nui needs it I mean... because of me.

Boy I've really gotten off to a tripped up start on this year. Wish us luck on this next round with the 55...
A Googolplex Thanks, GF

PS: I apologize for the scattered post here...

Sorry about the leak...

As to the "playing" when the water is low, are you sure it's not just the fish being stressed and trying to find a way "out"?

Regarding the filter media in the fridge:
If you are storing media from your filter, I would recommend cleaning it in tank-water BEFORE putting it in the fridge. The good bacteria you want adheres to surfaces very well, so it shouldn't wash off. But you get rid of lots of unwanted other "stuff".

Common plecos are indeed a problem in many tropical/subtropical regions. There are "wild" plecos (several different species, including smaller Ancistrus, if I remember correctly) in Hawaii, and the only likely source is aquarists releasing the fish (I'd think throwing fish out through the car-window is a bit exaggerated, but there's been instances in this country of aquarium fish being dumped/released in water-ways by ignorant aquarists).

When you say "import", do you mean "import from another country" or "from outside Hawaii"? I'm pretty sure that there is aquatics stores on Hawaii that are better than the PetCo and their immediate competitors. Of course, I don't know how difficult those are to find, and if you are in a remote part, it may not be easy to find such a store.

--
Mats

Sorry to hear your leak situation. Usually when I buy used I want to see that it holds water, so I will ask the owner ahead of time if it can be or is filled with water before I get there. I would think that if you paid Petco over the phone with a credit card they would hold a tank for you.

I wouldn't touch anything labeled a common pleco, particularly at Petco. For a 55 I would get an Ancistrus species. 1) they wont out grow your tank. 2)They are great 'work horses' as far as cleaning the glass and other surfaces. 3) And as long as it can have its own favorite hiding spot, there wont be as much territorial stuff going on. Even better if you can get a female, and there is greater size differences between it and the syno. I would add: as MatsP said, if its possible, I would purchase at a more reputable local tropical fish shop if you can. You may end up with a better quality fish.

What I would do is go on an expedition and catch one of those wild Hawaiian ancistrus MatsP mentioned. But thats just me.

"If" you were going to get another buddy for Nui, I would wait until after Nui is settled in his new digs for a least a few weeks-a month. Then I would proceed very cautiously and slowly. I would think maybe any fish under say 4" might be too small to handle any bullying? Maybe let the cats get to know each other through a divider for a while? See how they provoke each other. After full introduction: ripped and torn fins, body scratches, not good. Perhaps a different species of syno might be the ticket, one that has different habits/needs and is not in direct competition. Again, 2 synos of the same species, not necessarily a good number. eups can get relatively big, and the older a fish is the more set in its ways it can be. But I have seen 2 older fish introduced together and they 'jelled' very quickly, but that is the exception.

Above all else: quarantine, quarantine, quarantine!!!

googolplex

Hi All...

• The tank is filling tonight... Yeah!!!

Naturalart wrote:And another thought concerning Petco: I just found out they are having a sale on 40 gallon breeder tanks for $40.US. Thats a super deal. I don't know if this extends to Hawaii stores, but if your current tank doesnt work out, it wouldn't hurt in inquire. The only problem is the sale only last until Sat.1/15!

I did it! I bought a 40 gallon over the phone like you suggested. It's a breeder? Is that okay? It's all they had except a 55 gallon but I decided I'd like a 40. I'll pick it up Monday. Now I need a stand. I'm wondering if a dresser or an old old baby grand (finish in really bad shape) would work.

MatsP wrote:Sorry about the leak...

As to the "playing" when the water is low, are you sure it's not just the fish being stressed and trying to find a way "out"?

Nope, I'm sure... it's playing. He definitely has his ways of expressing dissatisfaction. But this is play, he swims around upside down all lackadaisical and rolling around like a slow motion torpedo.

• *side story: we were on the ocean last summer watching a humpback family. Towards the end of this 45 minute period of watching them breach I began to sense an irritation. I don't know how or if I really did but I felt like they were done with us floating along side them. The largest, the father I think did a major and last breach for us. He was quite a ways away but on the ocean with them, when something that size is in the air beside you, it's close. As he breached, he corkscrewed at the same time. Nui's turning/rolling (in the water) remind me of this whale.

BTW, last night when he was doing this... sticking his nose in a hole upside down; I saw inside his gills. It scared me as the flesh inside there is blood red. Is this normal? I was wondering if his tender flesh within is inflammed from the long exposure to bad water and continued instability under my care? And then I remembered cleaning fish from the ocean and that inside the gills are layers of a fibery flesh that is blood red. Do you think this is what I saw? I grabbed the camera but didn't see it from that direction again.

You've a valid concern Mats. Nui did show signs of being a very unhappy fish last night. He was frustrated and like swam up the glass. Does that make sense? I had decided to take some pictures of the things I've collected out of there (to show you all) and wasn't paying attention to him. I set up the little container on the stand right beside him so he could see I was close. After a few minutes he started swimming back and forth against the glass right where I was working really fast and radical like. Then he swam up the glass! Kind of flipped back into the water.I stopped and went back to hanging out with the tank only and he stopped. Went back to swimming. When he's swimming in a way that I think is enjoyment, it is a leisurely swim vs what he did last night to get my attention. And I'm sure he'd love to find a way out of that small thing. He will, very soon now.

Regarding the filter media in the fridge:
If you are storing media from your filter, I would recommend cleaning it in tank-water BEFORE putting it in the fridge. The good bacteria you want adheres to surfaces very well, so it shouldn't wash off. But you get rid of lots of unwanted other "stuff".

Is it okay now then? Because I didn't. I thought of leaving it for right before I put it back in, in the stockings? Hope it will be alright. The same with the bio bag I assume? I thought I'd read that I should
take the filter media (at a certain point) and transfer it to the 55 gallon filter. ??? I didn't rinse it either. But they're chilled not frozen? I also need to ask here if I should cut the bag in half and put one in each of the filters? I also bought a small power head that's on its way to help with filtration until I can get a better set up. I watched a couple DIY-sump videos on Youtube this week. Very interesting and cool thing to set up. Not real eye appealing, at least the couple I saw but fun and good for the fish evidently?

Common plecos are indeed a problem in many tropical/subtropical regions. There are "wild" plecos (several different species, including smaller Ancistrus, if I remember correctly) in Hawaii, and the only likely source is aquarists releasing the fish (I'd think throwing fish out through the car-window is a bit exaggerated, but there's been instances in this country of aquarium fish being dumped/released in water-ways by ignorant aquarists).

The spotted ones are the Anceistrus??? I like those. I really loved the yellow and black/brown one I saw and talk about dreamy eyes.

Naturalart wrote:What I would do is go on an expedition and catch one of those wild Hawaiian ancistrus MatsP mentioned. But thats just me.

I'd be into that, Scott would especially be into that, and be good at it I bet. Have you done this? Could you tell me how and what I need and need to do? I'm going to do some research to see if we have some on our island. We have a native little suckermouth we call "o`opu" (oh-oh-poo), they live in streams and climb waterfalls. Strong little mouths. Li'i reminds us of the o`opu the way she crawls around objects with her fins... like a bat kinda too.

When you say "import", do you mean "import from another country" or "from outside Hawaii"? I'm pretty sure that there is aquatics stores on Hawaii that are better than the PetCo and their immediate competitors. Of course, I don't know how difficult those are to find, and if you are in a remote part, it may not be easy to find such a store.

--


I meant from anywhere, another island, the US, Europe, Africa??? I've seen a couple sites that sell tropical fish and ship them to you overnight... they give instructions on how to open the boxes, acclimating the fish etc. The first time I was at Petco I saw a stack of boxes. The girl told me they were all fish. I was stunned to think of them being filled with this little creatures in water. Horrible I thought... but what do I know. I noticed the water they were in was blue. I asked her why and she told me it nourishes them while they travel and keeps them mellow, removes stress from their systems??? From what I've read you shouldn't open their boxes in light as it's too shocking to their systems. They advise doing it at night with a small light only someplace in the room so you can see what you're doing. But Petco doesn't care. They open them in full light. I've only been there three times, the last two I found a Chilclid dead.

Speaking of Chiclids... I've seen them mentioned with synos in threads. Are they compatible with Nui? I hadn't been thinking I'd like these other types of fish but when I was last at Petco I saw an albino one I fell in total love with. I'd live an albino. It had red eyes and pearly white flesh. Amazing looking and it had the sweetest spirit. Maybe with Li'i in the 40 gallon?

Last I wanted to bring up substrate. I was taking a photo of the rocks that came with the 55. And the camera picks up colors the eye doesn't sometimes right? I saw what I thought was black was like a prussian blue? Sure enough in daylight, it was. And it looked painted or something. I've found out since, these are what they call "Rainbow" gravel or rocks. And they're dyed or stained. There's evidently some that have a coating called "Frosty-coated Rainbow". This frosty coat evidently protects fish from possible dye leakage. I don't know if these have been coated or if coating them is okay to use. Is this something I should put in the tank? I know there's a way to prepare ocean resources for freshwater tank use, I need to find some instructions... I mention this in case I can't get gravel I like. They've got pretty colors at Petco, but I don't care for them, tho' I have a 5lb bag of deep turquoise gravel I bought for an indoor water fall project. But I don't want to use that. I'm trying to find out what color the bottom of the rivers/ponds/tributaries Nui and Li'i would have in their genetic memory. I'd like to try to match it color and texture if possible. Last substrate question, I read a blurb someplace today that said two to four inches is best because it helps the bio-filter out better this way. Is this true?

I read that I should take the width and length of the tank, multiply them and then divide the number by ten to get the number of pounds of substrate I need. Is this an accurate formula according to all of you? From what photos I've seen you have similar amounts in your tanks. Your beautiful tanks, I can only hope at this point that we'll get there. We have a couple good sized rivers here that now dry up now and then. I want to go gathering there for tank things... is this a good idea?

I need to go work on the tank again...
Sending you good wishes,
GF

There are several hundred plecos. They range from tiny fish around 1" to 3 feet or more.

The most commonly available ones are probably . They all grow to about 12" or more, so wouldn't be suitable for a 55g tank. I personally wouldn't mind if there were fewer of these fish in the trade, but they are easy to breed in large outdoor ponds in warm places (such as Florida).

I'd recommend as a good "starter pleco". They are relatively easy to look after (and breed), and shouldn't be hard to find even in Hawaii. Just make sure that you know what fish you are actually getting. Mature male Ancistrus are easy to tell, because they have "bristles" (actually soft tentacles).

And yes, fish is transported in polystyrene boxes with plastic bags inside (and "heat packs" if they are likely to be stored "cold" for any length of time) - fish come from two types of sources:
* Wild caught fish.
These clearly come from wherever the wild fish lives - South America, Africa, Asia, etc. In the case of Synodontis that is Africa, and in the case of Plecos they come from South America.
* Captive bred fish.
Fish that is bred in tanks or ponds. There are big tropical fish farms in Florida, and South East Asia has a large number of commercial breeders, in Europe there are breeders in the Czech republic. Hobbyists contribute a tiny amount to this, but not noticable numbers.

Oh, and blue water tells me that they are medicating the tanks... Not a great sign - but newly received fish may need a bit of extra TLC.

"Breeder" just means that it's suitable for breeding. It's a wide/shallow tank, which is perfect for catfish, because bottom area is more important than "display" area, which is gained by height. Six out of my nine tanks are wider (back to front) than their height, to give me more bottom space for the catfish. I think a 40g "breeder" is an excellent choice. My latest tanks are the same height, but another foot longer and 6 inches wider (so 48" x 24" base and 16" tall).

Tall tanks are good for tall fish, Angels, Discus, that sort of thing.

I reccon a 55g tank requires less than 50lbs sand/gravel, but probably more than 25 lbs - it usually comes in 8-12, 25 and 50 lbs bags, and the price difference is enough that a bigger bag will be worth getting (at least in my experience). Natural looking fine gravel or coarser sand is what I'd recommend.

Filtration:
I would rinse the filter media in used-tank water and see how it goes.

Most of the time, sump filters are hidden in a cupboard or similar under the tank, so you don't see them. But for a 55g freshwater tank, I'd probably just go for an Eheim Classic 2217 or similar filter. It's an external canister filter.


I think I've covered most things here. Please ask if there's something in particular you've missed.

--
Mats