PlanetCatfish.com

Marc van Arc wrote:One Centromochlus is in very bad shape. I'm afraid it's not going to make it through the day.
Can't say anything about the others as I can't see them atm.

One dead; second Centromochlus heading rapidly in the same direction....

No sign of small Ageneiosus yet.

Centromochlus nr 2 died as well; still no sign of Ageneiosus...

I've seen both Ageneiosus. They were trying to grab some bloodworms, but they're not the keenest of feeders. Hopefully they'll bump into some baby guppies tonight....
But at least they're still swimming (a bit clumsy, like tadpoles) which can no longer be said of the poor Centromochlus. I will expand on that tomorrow.

It is pretty bad news the Centromochlus didn't make it.


For what it's worth:To brighten this thread up a bit some pics of my driftwoodcats:
Tatia intermedia (male)


female (with cloven dorsal fin)






Centromochlus perugiae (older male)


C. concolor (male)





Ituglanis metae (not a driftwoody ofcourse, but a Trichomycterid)







Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Nice pix Arjan and they indeed cheer up the thread.

Wrt Centromochlus: the reason they died is me I'm afraid. Too much has happened to them, which prevented them from settling in ( and thus eating!) and they simply gave up.
Two long trips in a bag (1 x 9 hours; 1 x 27 hours), four days in a temp tank, 36 hours in a tank with lights on constantly and on top of that an overhaul of that tank (in order get the A. cf atronasus out) + a firm cleaning and waterchange......
I literally saw them getting worse after that, as if they were to say: okay, you win, we give up.
So pls don't feel sorry for me for this loss. Feel sorry for the fish. I do....

Smallest Ageneiosus (see picture above) down; the other one is still swimming but refuses to eat. Even handfeeding won't work. To make things worse other catfishes are starting to act a-typical. I'm afraid Murphy has found me again or perhaps I am Murphy myself.

Richard, take good care of your Ageneiosus. Unless I'm very mistaken, we can only find out through your specimens what species they are.

How are your watervalues, Marc?

Marc, I was looking forward to comparing notes so its a shame this has happened. Yours had quite a journey to get to your tank. I suppose its not looking good for that last one, but it takes a few days for them to adjust, it might pull through. If you can get large live brineshrimp that might work.
With mine... I'll do my best thx, they are looking good at this time. These fish are delicate at this size.

What's up with your other catfish? Is it just the one tank?

Fair observations gentlemen. It could well be that something in that tank wasn't right after all. Thing is that I kind of "expected" some fishes to die shortly, which may have made me less cautious of the state of the tank when I returned.
On the other hand, I (usually) quickly spot things that are not in order and all seemed right on our return.
What I usually never do is doing 2 waterchanges in 3 days. Perhaps that caused some unbalance in the water chemistry (and thus the well-being of the fishes)? They all look normal, but their behaviour is somewhat apathic.
Anyway, I'll just observe and see what will happen.

Wrt the A. marmoratus: after re-appearing on the list I tried to order them again, but apparently they are still not well. Which made me decide I won't go for them this time as one "doubtful" tank will do for the time being. I won't add questionable fishes to a tank - not any more.
This is fishwise probably the best decision of the past week. Hurray.....

I think the underlying issue here might be the introduction of fishes into a tank that's not been maintained for three weeks or so. I'd guess that, next time (hopefully), a temporary tank set-up simply for new fishes to go into immediately upon your return might help?

Jools

I actually did a waterchange before introducing the newcomers, but yes, something like a Q-tank would have been handy.

Perhaps I should start a new thread called "which auchenipterids are being killed by PC members", which also implies in which direction this posting is going.
Yes, Ageneiosus nr 2 died as well, which means all 4 new assets didn't make it. Some fishes I already had are still struggling.

It's always easy to draw conclusions afterwards, but this is what we (Alex & I) think has happened:

- filter stop during holiday. Not known for how long, but most likely too long
- massive kill of "good" bacteria
- water chemistry unbalanced (to say the least)
- 2 water changes in 3 days, tipping the "balance" over to the wrong side
- nitrite (NO2) peak
- fish poisoning, starting with the weaker specimens (= the new species). This was obvious from the fact that they were apathic, then swimming seemingly uncontroled with sudden movements, rapid breathing and curling whiskers.

I added Toxivec (a medium that binds and removes ammomia and nitrite) yesterday and today the nitrate test was good. Also I see no fishes in sight - except for Trachelyichtyhs - which may be a good sign. The Trachelyichtys are at least much quieter than yesterday.
Let's hope this won't take any more lives.

Nevertheless, mea culpa.

I personally feel that water changes can NEVER make things worse if the water quality is poor [unless the water you are adding is bad in some way - e.g. containing heavy metals, pesticides, piscicides or parasites in itself]. It may not make things that much better, but I'd be tempted to say in the circumstances you describe above, the problem is probably "not enough" rather than too much water changing - although neither may have made much of a difference.

--
Mats

Well, I get that to a point. But it depends on how much it changes the pH and to a degree temperature. It also depends on what parameters the fish being introduced into the tank are expecting.

It just seemed to me that (in hindsight) settling the fish into a Q tank, where they can be fed specifically, monitored easily, not have to compete with other fishes that haven't travelled and that that tank can be "synced" with the main tank while also "normalising" that main tank after returning from a few weeks holiday may yield better results.

Jools

Its a nightmare... you go away on holiday, the filters fail while you are away and your precious collection of fish suffer. You return home and take emergency action to remedy. I fully sympathise with Marc and fish keepers everywhere surely face this scenario.
I'm going on holiday fairly soon, so I'm now adding additional filtration to mature. Hopefully if any pumps or power filters fail, the air-powered filters will keep things ticking over sufficiently.

Marc, may I suggest you run an extra internal power filter in your tank. If you go away on holiday... when you return fill a small Q tank with tank water and add the filter and a heater/thermostat and add your new fish.

If things go on like they do atm, I'll have a rather large Q-tank shortly.....

oh shit

what has happened?
more dead fish in the meter tank?

crap

2 Trachelyichthys exilis
2 Spinipterus acsi (at least I could bury them with a valid name)
1 Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus

I did the things we discussed (water change, salt etc), but it's starting to look like a total wipe out.
The only good thing is that I transfered the Ageneiosus cf atronasus to the large tank. They are happy.

Today I lost 1 Trachelyopterus fisheri female from the large tank. Luckily this one was alive. Bijn picked her up to keep his single male company.

No deaths in the small tank today, but things are still not in order.

keeping my fingers crossed and stress (esp of the owner!) to a minimum.....

;)

Marc van Arc wrote:Today I lost 1 Trachelyopterus fisheri female from the large tank. Luckily this one was alive. Bijn picked her up to keep his single male company.

The trip to Marc went fine. The visit to Marc (and Lex) was also good, the fish was caught in a few minutes and we had some nice conversations. Then I wanted to visit Hustinx in Hasselt, I had no problems to reach Hasselt but in Hasselt there was a lot of traffic due to the canceled festival "Pukkelpop", I can tell you: the camping didn't look good
I didn't stay a long time in that store, there wasn't a lot to see. They have heaps of nice wc discus and Geophagus but thats it. Then I wanted to drive back home, took me more than 4 hours. That's more than twice the time it should take. Luckily the fish and I survived the trip, the plastic bags didn't.

Good thing to read you both made it back, despite the difficulties. And in hindsight Hasselt may not have been such a great idea, one day after the PukkelPop disaster......

I'm sure the female will do fine in your tank and I'm looking forward to some pictures & maybe a breeding report in due course?

Tatia intermedia female died today.
It's beginning to look like these fishes won't get well, whatever I/we do.
Current auchenipterid stock: Spinipterus asci 4/ Tatia intermedia 2/ Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus 2/Tatia dunni 1, none of them in good shape afaics.
So far 4 Hemiloricaria melini don't have any problems at all.

Real sorry to hear this, Marc.
But what causes it all? Is it a disease or a water/tank issue?

Water issues (filter!), wrongly made conclusions and actions (me), which are now followed by a disease (Ich) - probably the resistant or nearly resistant strain from the last time(-s).

My biggest problem atm is this: I came back from the holiday in a very good mood and refreshed. I felt very happy actually and up to a new school year.
This feeling has completely vanished during the past week. And one way or another I want that feeling back.
I know this is not really fish friendly, but I/we've done my/our utmost and now it's up to the fishes. I will not neglect them, but I won't be sitting in front of that tank anymore 24/7.

Marc van Arc wrote:Current auchenipterid stock: Spinipterus asci 4/ Tatia intermedia 2/ Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus 2/Tatia dunni 1

Make that 2/1/1/1

man, this sucks


did you add some salt on saturday? is it the itch now that wipes the rest of the fish?

sidguppy wrote:did you add some salt on saturday? is it the itch now that wipes the rest of the fish?

Yes wrt the salt and no wrt the Ich.
I'm at a loss what is killing atm; can't come up with anything better than the poisoning. Fact is that it doesn't stop and makes me feel very bad.
I'm on the brink of something drastic: helping all fishes - and myself - out of this misery (in different ways of course - not that I won't feel it).

I can understand that completely, but advise you to wait; even if only the last 2 spinipterus survive or even the sole Tatia dunni, it'll leave you with at least that.
dead is dead, but I have seen fishes recuperate that were literally falling apart only a day before.....

for your own misery; you've done all you could, now it's up to the tank and the fish.
don't add anything else; only start with regular 1/4-1/5 waterchanges on wednesday or so.
no salt.

it's totally crap though.
nothing you could expect or foreseen, just a case of very very bad luck.

My T Taniatus are active again

About 5 months ago, I finally found 2 males to add to the females I've had for around 2 years. I witnessed them attempting to mate with the much larger females, so I added nest sites all over the tank at different levels. Behaviour changed... the females locked themselves in to the nests (pipes with one end closed) and I saw nothing of them. Occasionally, the 2 males would cruise the tank when I added food, but not the females. It was as if the males had besieged them.

About a week ago I removed the nests and built a bogwood tangle with lots of nooks and crannies. Behaviour has changed again and now all the fish are active and feeding.

When you see the fish come up to my fingers for food the first one is female, the second is male - with the modified first spine of the anal fin, the third fish is 'big momma'...