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I hope that they do.

GOOD LUCK!

I have just spent an hour making a prototype Panaqulos cave.

I started with a hardwood tree branch about 3.5" diameter and cut a length 6.5" long on my bench saw. I then found that the diameter was too big to fit in my machine vice, so I used the bench saw to cut two flats on it at one end. This also made it much easier to grip well in the vice. In a 'production' version the blank could be made a bit longer, so the part with these flats could be cut off at the end. Then I clamped the piece of wood in the machine vice on my milling machine bed, and set up a 2" Forstner bit in my collet. I used this setup to drill the hole. Quite frequently I had to pause and hoover up the sawdust, especially as the hole got deeper.

I was unsure whether the collet would fit in the hole, but it did. Luckily Teresa specified a 2" hole and the collet holder is 50mm! So I kept drilling the hole as far as I could go And ended up with a completed cave, a little rough round the edges as it's a prototype, but functional.

Now, there's a limitation with the current setup. I can't drill the hole deeper than 5.25". The drill bit I bought isn't as long as it looked on the photo on ebay, and the total length from the bottom of the bit to the shaft bearing of the milling machine is only 5.25". Teresa specified a 5.5" depth so I'm just a little short (no sniggering now...)
I don't feel comfortable trying to clamp the bit half-in and half-out of the collet as it's taking pretty big forces drilling the hole.
I haven't yet looked to see if longer drill bits are available in this size.
So that's where I'm up to so far.

If I were to go into 'production' (maybe a batch of 20 or so) what would people be willing to pay for these?
Cheers,
Paul

Damn! Just realised I mixed up my O and U in that stupid genus name. Whoever came up with that spelling? Sorry!

Thanks Paul, for sharing. Very nice (although I never imagined using a mill - I thought this would be accomplished with a 1/2-inch hand drill and a 16 inch long drill-bit... your way is probably safer ).

Mol_PMB wrote:Damn! Just realised I mixed up my O and U in that stupid genus name. Whoever came up with that spelling? Sorry!

I think the origin of the name Panaqolus is explained elsewhere on this site, possibly by Jools or Shane... To answer your question, the name was created by somebody fixated on speaking Latin (yeah, a scientist) trying to co-opt a local South American name (Panaque) into a formally acceptable scientific name.

... oh, yeah, here it is: Panaquito: a standardising common name?

Cheers, Eric

Thanks Eric
When I made my own smaller caves I did as you describe but even for a 1" hole it was not a very controlled process. I did enlarge one of the holes by boring it out on a big lathe at work which worked OK.

With a 2" hole I decided it should be done properly, and would be within the capability of my own mill.

The next lot will be made slightly longer to start with so that I can cut off the bit with the flats afterwards. I'm still not sure about how best to make the hole longer - that may require more investment.

Also I might strip the bark. Not sure about that yet.
Paul

Mol_PMB wrote:When I made my own smaller caves I did as you describe but even for a 1" hole it was not a very controlled process. I did enlarge one of the holes by boring it out on a big lathe at work which worked OK.

With a 2" hole I decided it should be done properly, and would be within the capability of my own mill.

The largest drill bits I've seen locally are 1.5" diameter. I think that's about the limit for drilling caves with a hand drill.

Cheers, Eric

Mol_PMB wrote:And ended up with a completed cave, a little rough round the edges

A "little rough around the edges" is probably safe for Panaqolus, wouldn't it be? They are wood eaters after all, and they will probably remodel the home a little bit with some hearty chewing, right?

Yes, definitely. All my previous (smaller) caves have been enlarged by the fish as they grow.

There aren't any sharp edges inside, just a bit of surface roughness in parts of the bore. They'll soon smooth that out.

Looking good. Thanks paul! And not to worry about the misspelling of Panoquolus-I just did it also, in fact I am a serial misspeller, and up until recently this was how I spelt it. When I realised, I thought oh no! I've been doing this since I joined planet catfish. Because its set in my predictive text I have to check it now. See Panaquolus. My mispronounciation will raise a few giggles also, pan-a-kwo-luss, yes Panaquito would have been a whole lot easier!

OK, I've been making a couple more Panaquito caves ;)

Here's two views showing both sides and ends of the three prototypes so far. In all cases the hole is 2" diameter and 5.25" deep (that's the limit of my tooling at present). The overall diameter is about 4" and length is 6" to 8" depending on the individual piece of branch used.

Three types seen here:
Oak, complete with gnarly bark, lichen, moss etc.
Beech (I think) with smooth-ish bark
Beech (I think) with bark removed, back edges rounded off a little, still 'rustic'

The trees were in rural North Wales and were cut down about a year ago. The branches have been stored outside until recently so they're not 100% dried out, but sufficient to work with.

Any thoughts / recommendations? Would YOU want some of these? Which type do you prefer?

Cheers,
Paul

I've used up all my wood now! I'm going back to Wales at Easter so will try and pick up some more then.

Already mentioned in the wanted in uk thread I would like 6 (Edit of these. So if anyone else is wanting some, I'm sure Mol_PMB doesn't mind me putting in a good word for him!

Really nicely made, Paul. As fas as size goes (hole diameter x hole depth), I'm thinking your mill just lucked out for how deep it lets you go. As I've been making more clay caves recently... (I sold 9 last night at my fish club's mega-auction for an average of $5 each. I made no profit after subtracting the minor costs of the clay, the firing fee, and the club's commission fee; but that's ok, I didn't make them as an income source. And maybe now some of my club members may get their plecos to spawn. And then I'll buy the resulting baby plecos at future auctions... Rats! I just revealed my perfect sinister master plan!!!)

... Back on focus, my point was that I thought some of my first "practice" caves turned out too shallow to be desired by fish, like the triangular cave that was 2.5" x 5 - yikes! That's not universally true of course since lots of fish like lots of different shape and size hiding and spawning sites (to learn these specifics is one of the reasons I started this thread), but anyway recently I've been making my caves following a 1x3 or 1x4 rule, meaning the depth of most of the caves I'm making now are 3-4 x longer than the internal opening (width) of the mouth of the caves. Some of my new caves are slightly shorter and some are slightly longer but most are around that proportion. So if you are able to make your caves 2 x 5.25, I think that will be a good length. If you make more at different size openings, I'd think 1.5" diameter would work well too with that depth.

Now let's hope those L397s are as excited by the caves as we are!

Cheers, Eric

Let's hope so indeed, Just now I checked up on them, this morning one of my males was in one cave, he's now moved. Then another female tries to get a bit friendly with a female that has since moved in. Not working out quite as intended so far!

My latest attempts. These were made with the artist's higher quality clay. It was fired at "cone 6" whereas my first caves with the cheaper clay from Michael's Craft Store were fired at "cone 02."

There are a couple of alternative shapes/designs in the batch, some intentional and some not ( ). Regarding the intentional designs, one cave (in the middle of the photos, fourth from right side) has a large shelf/awning sticking out of its upper surface, to give the residents more privacy from above. And the squarish "stone" with the entrance on the top (in the second picture) is actually upside-down as I designed it - it's supposed to be a bottom-entrance cave (as seen in the first photo) for under-ledge spawners. After observing my for a few months now, I am starting to expect that if they do spawn for me (well, really for themselves, but I'll take their children), they will spawn under a shelf or ledge just as likely as they will in a cave... They seem to prefer to be under ledges.

Oddly, these new caves are made from two different colors of clay, a light brown and dark brown in appearance before firing (the difference was VERY obvious), but now that they are fired, I can barely tell the difference.

Cheers, Eric

Here's the bottom-entrance cave in use by one . No courtship action yet, but simple occupancy is a good start. There's also a fish (not visible in this photo) in the cave underneath, and that cave likewise has a flat roof and rounded floor, but obviously not the bottom entrance. The tail of a third fish can be seen under the piece of slate rock. As I mentioned above, this species seems to like sitting upside down under ledges.

Mol_PMB you did a great job. Definitely beats spending the money on pleco caves and I think will look more natural

Back to the spelling mistakes of Panaqolus - seems this is actually the correct spelling, I picked up on it when using clog tags and then finding the page didnt come up. Who wouldn't use a u after a q, may explain my pronunciation.

Here is my step by step guide into making your own clay caves.

I want to say thanks to my two friends Bean and Martin as together we have made caves for the past couple of years. Many "cave nights" with trial and error of different techniques until we were happy with the out come of the caves.

I want to add this is what we did to save ourselves money and also enjoy the hobby a little more, in making the caves our fish breed in. I hope this helps you too.

I will post links for the clay we have used if it is requested.

Weaponry from the kitchen you will need to steal is as follows..

Cling film
Grease proof paper
Tall glass
Knife

Picture 1 shows the "cave moulds" (posh name for stollen rolling pin from the kitchen and two bits of wood from broom handles). Use a Stanley blade to make the end of the cave mould rounded off.

2. Wrap cling film over the cave mould. This will ensure the clay doesn't stick to cave mould.

3. Using a knife (stollen from the kitchen). Dip into the water and cut the desired amount of clay.

4. Get the clay into a ball and push down onto the cave mould, squeezing around the cave mould as you go.

5. Starting to take shape now. Make the cave to what ever length you want.

6. Final touches. Roll the cave over the grease proof paper. You will find that the cave will start to get tidier in appearance. The cave will come loose around the mould now. Dip the knife into the water and cut around the end (entrance to cave) to leave the clay with a smooth surface.

7-8. Pull the cave mould out slowly. You will be left with the cling film still in the cave.

9. Twist the cling film. This helps bring the clim film away from the cave. Note. Be gentle with cave at this point. Slowly pull out the cling film.

10. This picture shows what you'll be left with. Throw the cling film away.

11. The cave is done. At this point you can tweak it into a "D" or Triangle shape, whatever suits you.

Place the cave on to a fresh bit of grease proof paper, where you can leave it to dry. It should take 7-10 days to dry properly and ready for the kiln. We pay our local potter to use his kiln to fire our caves. We prefer to have them fired when he has the kiln at the glazing temperature, which I think is about 1300 degrees but I could be wrong? Once fired and at home you will need to file off any sharp bits in and around the cave.

They're now ready to use.

Good luck and please let me know how you get on if you try it out. Have patience as it will take a few goes to get it right.

Ps. I hope you like the wall of children's art? 2 and 4

Next pictures.

Next

Thanks, ridout, for the photos and step-by-step technique. Very simple!

Cheers, Eric

Seems that I finally found a cave big enough for this boy. One of the ones @Mol_PMB made that will hopefully be put to good use.

The above cave was put to very good use by my BN pair as I saw them spawning in it last night. Alternative caves were ordered but it became obvious he liked this one so I left him with his drilled out log. This morning he's fanning away.I have attempted to take a peek. But a big seven inch BN is in the way. . @MoL_PMB looks like you have made a proven breeding cave.

From another thread (Re: DIY Pleco Cave ideas PLEASE!!), this post describes how to cut slate for caves without using a power saw:

Jobro wrote:Using a saw for slate is overkill. It's so easy to break it to a certain degree of precision. A hammer and a chisel are enough.

Maybe I will make a video next time I "cut" some slate. I fix the slate to the worktable with a wood lath and two clamps. Place the wood lath exactly next to the line, where you want to break it. Now move the chisel along the wood lath up and down the slate with some pressure in order to carve a line in there. Once the carve is 1-2mm deep (this goes pretty fast and easy in slate) just gentle hammer the chisel into the carve. Do it at some different spots along the carve and it will break nice and cleanly along that carve. Hope this is comprehensible without pictures.

My first attempt at a drilled-wood cave: A friend gave me several 3-year old maple branches (2.5-3.5" diameter). These came out of his compost pile. They are well-aged, dry as a bone, and hard as a rock. I tried to avoid overheating the drill bit, but it came out really hot every few moments (I'd give it a break). I never pushed very forcefully, but the wood is really hard.

This cave is 1" diameter, about 4" deep. Let's see how the fish like it.

Next will be a 1.5" diameter cave.

Cheers, Eric

I use oak for my wood caves...... even harder to drill than maple is! lol Try wetting the wood/drill bit so it doesn't overheat as much/as fast. And of course as you found out.... take your time doing it.

Chuck

Thanks for the suggestions.