The hybrid Syno thread

[Birger]

The below is from this thread submitted by andywoolloo
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... no#p153779

[Dave Rinaldo]

This came in labelled as a

Synodontis granulosa

X

Synodontis polli

hybrid.

3.5 cm TL

[MatsP]

At least they are honest about it. And a VERY pretty fish.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

Nice pics Dave - it looks very small - interesting to see growth rates & how it develops over time

[Dave Rinaldo]

Nice pics Dave - it looks very small - interesting to see growth rates & how it develops over time

It's 3.5 cm TL

I took my photo tank to work last night.
It's still at the shop.
He is a cutie though!

[sidguppy]

bloody shame though

you DO know that usually in the creation of hybrids the parental fish die because they don't survive the injected hormones for very long nor the squeezing out of eggs and roe?

wich means they killed a wildcaught granulosus to create this little horror.
injected with toxic waste and squeezed to death

wich doesn't make it cute to me, just painful.

[Jools]

you DO know that usually in the creation of hybrids the parental fish die because they don't survive the injected hormones for very long nor the squeezing out of eggs and roe?

A long time ago, there was a speaker at the CAGB convention on this subject. This was before I attended these things. It strikes me that a talk on such a brutual method of producing fish to sell would not have gone down well, yet from memory the talk was well received. Maybe everyone was just being polite. Any one else know more? I am sure it was a Czech speaker.

I agree, that some methods of hybridisation involve kitchen blenders, but not all do and I would like to know more.

Maybe someone like Ian or Chris would remember?

Jools

[Richard B]

twas not one of the ones i ever attended...

[Jools]

It would be 80's I think. I'll need to ask Allan James next time I see him.

Jools

[andywoolloo]

I have seen videos and tv shows on manually extracting sperm from fish and it looks horrible. horrible and painful and deadly. But I do not know if it was deadly, Just wicked and mean and alot of squishing. It looked liek it would kill them and squish their internal organs to bits.

[xsweeneyx]

An interesting thread, as a newcomer to the forum but fishkeeping for about three years it raises some questions about how many of the species that are sold to the unknowing members of public like myself, who rely on the knowledge of the people at my LFS, are actually what they are supposed to be!!
It appears to me that if you buy any Syno species you are at best 50/50 on actually getting what you paid for. I have a some syno petricola which appear to match according to the e-catalog photos, I'll have to try and put up some photos for 100% ident. I have already taken hold of a couple of other syno's which appear to be hybrid's according to my other thread on the 'what is my catfish forum'. Not too much of a problem for me in the respect that I have taken them not knowing what they were from someone who is breaking down a tank and have not forked out cash for them.
I guess my main point is that unless a person is an expert in the field it will be very difficult to ensure that what you pay for is what you get.
Does anyone have any simple practicle advice for ensuring syno's are correctly labelled when purchased?
I would just like to add that the people on this site deserve huge credit for the amount of work they put in and to the help that is offered to newbies such as myself. Well Done.

[Birger]

I guess my main point is that unless a person is an expert in the field it will be very difficult to ensure that what you pay for is what you get.

Definitely has turned into a problem.

Does anyone have any simple practicle advice for ensuring syno's are correctly labelled when purchased?

The simplest way is to research before buying...get a picture if possible post it on the what is my catfish forum and between us we can usually figure it out.

I have even taken pictures with me if there is a particular fish I am looking at.

Sometimes though if a person wishes to get something it ends up being a gamble because one has to pick it up right away or never see it again.

For people with some of the newer phones it is possible now to take the Cat-eLog with you to the store.

Birger

[andywoolloo]

staring at the pics here in the caltalog and having an internet phone at the shoppe with you is always excellant as Birger says.

You can also take a pic of the syno and then post here before buying.

But looking thru hybrid threads here and on line really helps even a newbie like me.

I posted one of my synos, Henry, on here from the shoppe and found out what he really was and went back and got him after.

[jippo]

you DO know that usually in the creation of hybrids the parental fish die because they don't survive the injected hormones for very long nor the squeezing out of eggs and roe?

A long time ago, there was a speaker at the CAGB convention on this subject. This was before I attended these things. It strikes me that a talk on such a brutual method of producing fish to sell would not have gone down well, yet from memory the talk was well received. Maybe everyone was just being polite. Any one else know more? I am sure it was a Czech speaker.

I agree, that some methods of hybridisation involve kitchen blenders, but not all do and I would like to know more.

Maybe someone like Ian or Chris would remember?

Jools

Last summer when I visited at Germany I spoke with one syno breeder who is using hormones. He said it is a shame that he lost parents ALMOST every time. I don't know what that almost means, is it 50% or 90% but he said he would do it different way if it would be possible. And he was very much against hybrid synos, never cross different species. But he has been bred most of the synos first time ever but still he was very interested about nature breeding, imitating rainy season with lights, water parameters and so on. He just hasn't never tried that.

[Dave Rinaldo]

I thought I would add this from this thread

[Viktor Jarikov]

There is mine more or less look-alike from here http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... s&start=20

[Dave Rinaldo]

Two of these were traded in at LFS.
I'd guess

Synodontis sp_hybrid(5)

6" TL

[taylor1410]

I thought i would contribute my hybrid to all the others, im not sure what it is.

[racoll]

So I finally got round to getting a bit of work I did on syno hybrids out there for people to read. Unfortunately, it didn't go completely to plan, as you'll read in the post. Anyway, I hope it's at least of some interest. It's documented on a blog post here, with a link to the article at the bottom.

You might not wish to read the technical bits of the article, but just skip straight to Figure 5 and Figure 6. A few of the specimens in Figure 6 are pictured alive at the start of this thread, so hopefully we can match these up with the hybrids in the clog, and from the tree, work out what the mother species are (paternal species didn't work).

Big thanks to Richard B for getting hold of many of these hybrids for me.

[Birger]

A link to another Tangy hybrid, might be a grown version of the one Dave Rinaldo shows a few posts back. http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 66#p263466

[unblinded]

I stumbled across this video today and thought I would share it for those who might not have seen it. This seemed like a good place to put it. Some of these crosses make no sense to me. In some cases the offspring look awful. The short bodied Synos are just gross. I never could get the video to post so I just posted the URL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5ZhfJzB2DE




*mod edit: introduced youtube tags

[Richard B]

Great spot unblinded - some interesting detail as it would appear 2nd & 3rd generation hybrids are being produced. I'm not sure if this means that hybrids have been bred or that a certain crossbreed has been crossed with a different crossbreed etc

Certainly the right place to post so people can be educated

[racoll]

In light of the recent hybrid syno discussion here, we will now try to get some more info into the cat-elog.

The newest results are in, and we now have maternal species IDs on all the hybrids myself and Richard collected (assuming of course that the IDs of the fishes in GenBank are correct).

This one (RC0582) was

Synodontis nigrita

. Not sure if this hybrid is in the cat-elog.

This one (RC0698) was

Synodontis ocellifer

. Seems to match

Synodontis sp_hybrid(8)

, I think.

IMGP0509.JPG (47.14 KiB) Viewed 44426 times

[racoll]

These were

Synodontis decorus

. Matches

Synodontis sp_hybrid(5)

.

RC0428

RC0699

IMGP0547.JPG (54.52 KiB) Viewed 44426 times

[racoll]

Also

Synodontis decorus

, but this time matching

Synodontis sp_hybrid(9)

.

RC0616

RC0703

IMGP0540.JPG (52.77 KiB) Viewed 44426 times

[racoll]

If it's definitely a hybrid, it comes from

Synodontis petricola

(or quite possibly

Synodontis lucipinnis

):

RC0696.

IMGP0531.JPG (54.31 KiB) Viewed 44426 times

[racoll]

This was

Synodontis schall

. Matches

Synodontis sp_hybrid(2)

.

RC0701.

IMGP0513.JPG (58.02 KiB) Viewed 44425 times

[racoll]

Again,

Synodontis schall

. Also matches

Synodontis sp_hybrid(2)

, but with denser spots.

RC0702.

IMGP0501.JPG (54.18 KiB) Viewed 44425 times

[racoll]

These were

Synodontis eupterus

. Two possible matches here.

Synodontis sp_hybrid(1)

RC0569

RC0384

Synodontis sp_hybrid(4)

RC0700

IMGP0521.JPG (49.49 KiB) Viewed 44425 times

[racoll]

These two were also

Synodontis eupterus

.

RC0329

RC0583