What kind of parasites does my catfish have? HELP!

jsxtreme · Post by **jsxtreme** » 13 Sep 2006, 14:14

I have a yellow bullhead catfish, and I feed him live goldfish. I think he got some parasites from them. All the parasites are on top of his head, it looks like he has about 50 of them on there. They are white and when you get up real close and look you can actually see them moving around on his head, like walking. They are so tiny though you have to be about 5 inches away to see them. Its doesnt seem to bother him, but I still dont think they should be there. I also have a blue channel in the tank but he doesnt seem to have any. What can I use to get rid of them? I tried ridich but it didnt work.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 13 Sep 2006, 14:40

I'm by no means sure about this, but fish-louse would be one possibility. If so, picking them off is the best approach. Do a google on fish-louse and see if it's the same as what you're looking for.

Of course, I doubt very much that a bullhead (or channel cat) "needs" to be fed live fish. If you can ween it off live food, you'd have less risk of introducing parasites via the feeder fish.

--
Mats

jsxtreme · Post by **jsxtreme** » 13 Sep 2006, 15:05

MatsP wrote:I'm by no means sure about this, but fish-louse would be one possibility. If so, picking them off is the best approach. Do a google on fish-louse and see if it's the same as what you're looking for.

Of course, I doubt very much that a bullhead (or channel cat) "needs" to be fed live fish. If you can ween it off live food, you'd have less risk of introducing parasites via the feeder fish.

--
Mats

I looked at the pic and its looks like fish-louse get pretty big. These are nothing like that. They are white, and tiny. There is NO way I could pick them off. They are too small for tweezers.

Post by **Silurus** » 13 Sep 2006, 16:09

Are they worm-like, or an amorphous blob? Can you see any legs?

jsxtreme · Post by **jsxtreme** » 13 Sep 2006, 19:24

Silurus wrote:Are they worm-like, or an amorphous blob? Can you see any legs?

Worm like, and they are way way to small to be able to see any legs.

Post by **Silurus** » 13 Sep 2006, 22:21

If you look in the tank carefully, can you see more of these critters anywhere else (other than on the catfish)? Sounds like you have a planarian infestation (which are not fish parasites).

jsxtreme · Post by **jsxtreme** » 13 Sep 2006, 22:34

Silurus wrote:If you look in the tank carefully, can you see more of these critters anywhere else (other than on the catfish)? Sounds like you have a planarian infestation (which are not fish parasites).

No in fact they arent even on the fish right now. Its seems like they come and go, like you will see them on him every other day. Its very odd, thats why im stumped. I just looked on all the rocks and plants and I dont see them anywhere.

Post by **Silurus** » 13 Sep 2006, 22:40

The best way to look for planarians is right up against the glass, especially at the level of your substrate. If they are indeed planarians, then it's a sign that you are overfeeding your fish.

jsxtreme · Post by **jsxtreme** » 14 Sep 2006, 02:23

Silurus wrote:The best way to look for planarians is right up against the glass, especially at the level of your substrate. If they are indeed planarians, then it's a sign that you are overfeeding your fish.

Well all i feed them is live fish, they eat them liesure.

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 14 Sep 2006, 09:24

It's Gyrodactylus, skin flukes. Or possibly, but more unlikely, newborn fish leeches.

Planarians never move around on live fish, and never move by "walking" - they always glide, like a snail.

As for treatment... Ich medication containing formalin and malachite green should kill them, as should metronidazole.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 14 Sep 2006, 19:10

Planaria will crawl on a stationary bullhead catfish. Gyrodactylus don't come and go. The planaria investigae all surfaces and bullheads will sit for hours at a time. They are harmless but as has been said are a sign of excess uneaten foods. Set a piece of meat or fish inside a container with holes and youwill quickly see the planaria aggregate in and around the meat. That will give you a conclusive identification of these organisms. If they are planaria tighten up upkeep and feeding protocols and you will starve them out. Planaria are impervious to ich and most other meds.

jsxtreme · Post by **jsxtreme** » 14 Sep 2006, 21:50

apistomaster wrote:Planaria will crawl on a stationary bullhead catfish. Gyrodactylus don't come and go. The planaria investigae all surfaces and bullheads will sit for hours at a time. They are harmless but as has been said are a sign of excess uneaten foods. Set a piece of meat or fish inside a container with holes and youwill quickly see the planaria aggregate in and around the meat. That will give you a conclusive identification of these organisms. If they are planaria tighten up upkeep and feeding protocols and you will starve them out. Planaria are impervious to ich and most other meds.

That sounds like it could be it. Cause after he swims fast, or rubs his head on the rocks it seems like they come off. There has been extra food in the tank latley. They wont hurt him though will they?

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 14 Sep 2006, 22:49

Gyrodactylus, skin flukes, are small parasitic flatworms which sit on, primarily, the head of the fish. They're whitish in color, and range in size from about 0.2mm up to 1mm, depending on age, nutritional status, and species. They can be seen with the naked eye (although the smaller species just barely), standing, fastened by a hooked sucker on the surface of the fish. If disturbed they will contract. They are also able to move, much like an inch-worm, by using their second, anterior, sucker.

"Planarian" is any of several hundred species of flatworm from about 10 orders which occasionally show up in aquaria. The most common ones are species from the orders Catenulida (very small, usually about 1mm and thread-like, transparent) and Tricladida (the true planarians, usually quite meaty, normally an elongated oval in shape, ranging in color from white via brown to black, normally 3-15 mm in size). Catenulids and triclads are not parasites but small scavengers/predators, and will indeed only become numerous if there's a lot of leftover fishfood for them to eat. I have never seen one on a living fish, but given sufficiently high densities and extremely lethargic fish I suppose anything is possible.

If you see several small things inch-worming around on the head of your fish I'd say it's a safe bet your fish is infected by skin flukes.

jsxtreme · Post by **jsxtreme** » 15 Sep 2006, 02:34

Mike_Noren wrote:Gyrodactylus, skin flukes, are small parasitic flatworms which sit on, primarily, the head of the fish. They're whitish in color, and range in size from about 0.2mm up to 1mm, depending on age, nutritional status, and species. They can be seen with the naked eye (although the smaller species just barely), standing, fastened by a hooked sucker on the surface of the fish. If disturbed they will contract. They are also able to move, much like an inch-worm, by using their second, anterior, sucker.

"Planarian" is any of several hundred species of flatworm from about 10 orders which occasionally show up in aquaria. The most common ones are species from the orders Catenulida (very small, usually about 1mm and thread-like, transparent) and Tricladida (the true planarians, usually quite meaty, normally an elongated oval in shape, ranging in color from white via brown to black, normally 3-15 mm in size). Catenulids and triclads are not parasites but small scavengers/predators, and will indeed only become numerous if there's a lot of leftover fishfood for them to eat. I have never seen one on a living fish, but given sufficiently high densities and extremely lethargic fish I suppose anything is possible.

If you see several small things inch-worming around on the head of your fish I'd say it's a safe bet your fish is infected by skin flukes.

Well how do I get rid of them! What kind of medication do I use cause Ridich isnt working.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 15 Sep 2006, 05:54

Lively little debate that is easily settled. Try the meaty bait I suggested and check for an increased density of these organisms around it immediately after you turn on the lights. If they have aggregated around it they are the common aquarium pesty planaria. The odds favor that they are your problem. If none concentrate around the bait, I am wrong. This is an easy way to narrow down the possibilities. Bull Head Cats are messy eaters and if they are large enough to be eating other fish they will scatter scales and other fish debris as well as nourishing feces in abundance that will sustain a lot of flatworms.
Larry

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 15 Sep 2006, 10:51

jsxtreme wrote:Well how do I get rid of them! What kind of medication do I use cause Ridich isnt working.

Mike answered this: A medication that contains either Formaldehyde (Formalin) or malachite green (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malachite_green). You can find a medication called "Paragon II" that contains Metrondiazole, which is another medication suitable for parasites.

--
Mats

aquaholic · Post by **aquaholic** » 26 Oct 2006, 20:04

Sounds like Hydra if they are mobile (Hydra oligactis). Ive also had anchor worm (Lernaea sp.) come in with goldfish but these are bigger and dont move, just spread when they multiply!! Google for images to make sure before you start treating for anything.

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 26 Oct 2006, 23:44

No, it is definitely not Hydra.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 27 Oct 2006, 15:13

A little sidebar, your Honor, but does anybody have FIRST HAND experience successfully eradicating hydra with fish and plant safe chemicals? I'm not interested on what a product claims or anecdotal 'evidence'.
Sterilization and or curtailing feeding zooplankton are the only means I know of that control their numbers in fry grow out tanks but they are never completely eradicated.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » 27 Oct 2006, 16:33

There's a medication called praziquantel that is effective against both flatworms (planaria) and certain kinds of flukes, roundworms, and segmented worms. Whatever your infestation is, this will probably nuke it. It's a lot safer than using malachite or formalin with your catfishes. The easiest to find commercial product containing this med is PraziPro, distributed by Hikari Sales, USA. If your favorite aquarium shop doesn't have it you can get it online. Try this first, following package instructions. Incidentally, this is an excellent product for "cleaning" wild caught fish suspected of carrying parasites.

Formalin is an incredibly dangerous chemical both to you and your fish. In fact, in the US it will no longer be available in the commercial aquarium trade in the very near future. Malachite Green, while effective against certain protozoan infections in certain fishes, is not a particularly effective drug for higher parasites. In addition, the risk of overdose with catfishes is very real.

Metronidizole is effective against smaller protozoan parasites. Used in combination with praziquantel it will destroy almost any internal parasitic infection in a fish. It was orinigally developed for the treatment of amoebic dysentary in humans (take it on collecting trips?). On its own, metro may damage but will not wipe out an infestation of worms or flukes.

Finally, find a clean source of feeders. Many people will grow their own mollies for large feeder fish, rather than exposing their predators to the nasties that come in on goldfish and other mass-produced feeders. Of course, there's no real reason to feed your bullheads live fish at all. They'll eat anything. Any kind of sinking pellets or wafers will be more than sufficient for them. Look for high-protein products like shrimp pellets to replace feeder fish.

Hydra: No idea. Blue (Trichogaster trichopterus) gouramis eat them. That's how I usually deal with them. For a fry tank, introduce the gourami in between batches. Don't feed the gouramis for a few days so they have to eat the hydra.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 27 Oct 2006, 17:26

The old blue gourami trick is over estimated. The hydra naturally diminish below obvious numbers when you remove the fry and stop feeding live bbs shrimp. Very old news but thanks for trying.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » 27 Oct 2006, 22:24

You asked for first hand experience, I gave it. It works for me just fine.

This kind of response I'm sure will make others excited to offer their insights as well...

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 28 Oct 2006, 01:30

Welcome to planetcatfish. One must have the skin of an armored catfish lest feeling get hurt.
The blue gourami as hydra control has never been proven scientifically. As I stated before, hydra populations build exponentially in the presences of an abundant supply of new hatch brineshrimp and crash when the zooplankton food source is withdrawn, without the presence of a blue gourami.
Therefore if disappearance of hydra acompanies an addition of a blue gorami it proves nothing unless you keep feeding zooplankton in the presence of a blue gourami and the hydra population crashes.
There are some hydra present in 99.999% of all freshwater aquariums. They just don't become noticeable unless there is an abundance of zooplankton as is normal in fry grow out tanks. I have never known of an aquarists successfully eliminating hyydra from a fry grow out tank by adding a blue gourami.
Point of fact, hydra are not high in the preferred food list of blue gouramis and they only eat them when they have little other choice, The same is true of paradise fish.
I've bred tropical fish commercially, now for in excess of 40 years, and what I tried to say is that despite aquarium remedy manufacturer's claims otherwise, there are no safe chemicals that can selectively eliminate hydra and not harm fry at the same time. Nor is there a blue gourami that can be added to a fry grow out tank infested with hydra that will selectively eliminate the hydra and not harm the fry.
Causal relationships must pass stringent scitifict method testing before one can say beyond a reasonable doubt that the claim is true. This has yet to be done with any tropical fish as biological hydra control and made it into a peer reviewed reputable publication. I'm sorry if I threw a rock through the greenhouse window but some of us require facts not anectdotes.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 28 Oct 2006, 10:08

You guys are missing the point; only Mike and the OP got it right.

Hydra's and Planaria's -nasty as they may seem- are NOT what's happening here.
why? because neither of these ever walks or glues itself on a living moving fish!. Planaria's might touch a dead one (they're scavengers), but Hydra looks like a seaanemone with anorexia and eats free floating or swimming plancton. not skinparts of Bullhead catfishes.

This is a classic case of skinflukes and the only thing needed here is a med that deals specifically with those.

skin- and gillflukes (Gyrodactylus and Dactylogyrus) are transmitted directly from fish to fish. they do not use intermittant hosts (like many Nematodes do) and they don't hitch along with plants or furniture.
the feeders carried some with them, the predator (the Bullhead) got them as a result.

Andrew made a suggestion for a newer kind of med; in Europe we too have newer meds for skinflukes. I won't touch formaldehyde with a 10 foot pole if I can avopid it.
carcinogenic, that's what it is; and I sniffed loads of it -not on purpose mind!- during study, dissecting conservated animals.
coppercontaining meds (like Malachite Green) can be extremely toxic to any scaleless fish like the Bullhead.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 28 Oct 2006, 13:43

Sid, right you are, I led this discussion off topic. I'll start a different thread.

jsxtreme · Post by **jsxtreme** » 11 Nov 2006, 13:57

My bullhead is better now by the way, thanks for the help!